You can get about 4-5 hours off a battery. Disappointing because they take up as much room as an 18650, but not terrible.
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You can get about 4-5 hours off a battery. Disappointing because they take up as much room as an 18650, but not terrible.
The part of my post about sensing the resistence change in the attys and auto adjusting the wattage are not "business aspects".
The second part is business aspects. And unless you can do those things, then there is no true comparison between tinkering in the garage and providing an advanced PV to the masses and what it "truely" costs to do so.
Do not settle for mediocre mods. Do yourself a favor & buy quality stainless steel from America. Buy a Precise from Super-T. If you are into variable voltage, you can pick up a stainless steel provari for less than $200. The craftsmanship of a stainless steel mod built in the USA is far from a "child's toy".
If you want a child's toy........get a lil' sister, a glv, or the myriad of other mods out there that someone is simply trying to make a buck on because "they figured out how to work with solder".
The price of a well built mechanical mod like the Precise is well worth it in the long run.
In Texas a carton of smokes would cost me $65 a week..........So, in a month, bam, you can have 2 brand new mods for what you used to put up in smoke
If you want a child's toy........get a lil' sister, a glv, or the myriad of other mods out there that someone is simply trying to make a buck on because "they figured out how to work with solder".
The price of a well built mechanical mod like the Precise is well worth it in the long run.
In Texas a carton of smokes would cost me $65 a week..........So, in a month, bam, you can have 2 brand new mods for what you used to put up in smoke
And then there are thousands of people who totally disagree with you and like not just the advanced performance of the Darwin but also like how it looks.
But you keep running away from your point that the Provari or Darwin are over priced and can be built to the same quality and with the same features for a fraction of the cost in someone's basement and sold for much less to the masses. Comments like that just prove that you have never run a business or have any idea how to run a business. When you provide "facts" of how you can build, market, finance, manage and successfully sell a PV of this caliber, at a fraction of the cost currently charged to the public at large, then you will have a real point to make instead of just bashing other's concrete efforts. Currently, you're just blowing hot air.
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What are you talking about, I never said the Provari could be built in someones basement for a fraction of the cost. I said CHINA will build it for a fraction of the cost, last time I checked China isn't someones basement. I never mentioned the Darwin, in fact you were the FIRST person in this thread to mention the Darwin. The OP didn't mention it, it never even got brought up till you wandered in and started talking about it. There are "thousands" of people who own a Darwin? I didn't know that, you being such good friends and all with the maker maybe you could provide hard numbers.
You clearly stated they are overpriced to similar tech. This of course is more of your hot air with no facts to support it. Do you know precisely what "tech" is used in the Darwin or Provari? Or are you ASSuming that all tech is the same regardless of manufacturer? Does the similar tech have the exact same power requirements over the same time frame? Does the similar tech have the capablility to measure resistence and automatically change power output?
Do you have any concept of the start-up costs for a small business in comparison to a large corporation that has been in business for years and how that affects product cost? How about the cost of labor from one region of the country to another or from one country to another? How about the safety and legal reguirements that must be satisfied in one country versus another? If you can answer all of these questions with "facts" that prove that these models are "overpriced", then by all means provide the information. Otherwise, you're talkin out of your back end.
Oh so were being clear that I didn't say we could make it in a basement right? You did get the China part in "China"? I don't want to ASSume you understand that.
Do not settle for mediocre mods. Do yourself a favor & buy quality stainless steel from America. Buy a Precise from Super-T. If you are into variable voltage, you can pick up a stainless steel provari for less than $200. The craftsmanship of a stainless steel mod built in the USA is far from a "child's toy".
If you want a child's toy........get a lil' sister, a glv, or the myriad of other mods out there that someone is simply trying to make a buck on because "they figured out how to work with solder".
The price of a well built mechanical mod like the Precise is well worth it in the long run.
In Texas a carton of smokes would cost me $65 a week..........So, in a month, bam, you can have 2 brand new mods for what you used to put up in smoke
Unless you are on a really tight budget then of course it's perfectly acceptable and whats right to do, to buy a mom and pop plastic 5 v or VV box mod.
If you spent less than 20 bucks a month for your cigarette smoking pleasure then a plastic 35 dollar box mod is the way to go.
Stainless Steel? Who cares? Sure it's nice to have if you can afford it but you can take all those guts and stick them in a plastic box and get the same performance for way cheaper.
Kinda rough on the lil sister and GLV aren't you, calling them child's toys? Tearing them down because, "someone is simply trying to make a buck on because "they figured out how to work with solder"."
If it wasn't for the little guys like the lil sistter there would be no Precise or Provari. Those production models started off life as mods on forums such as this.
There are tons of people here who are on disability or other types of fixed incomes and could not afford 200 dollars for a stainless steel mod if they saved for a year.
I have dropped my Old Goat many times with no problems. If something does break, I know it will be cheap to fix. I read the forums and the problems people do have with the Precise and Provari. They can break or go bad just like any other mod. Paying a higher price for something in a stainless steel sleeve is not necessarily a guarantee of quality or durability.
I see you are a registered reviewer. Do you get free or discounted mods to review like many reviewers do? I'd like to see your Precise or Provari review.
Seems you have a lot of bias. Not sure I could trust you to give an honest review on a brand new 100 dollar bill handed to you by the President himself.
From the GLV website:
http://greatlakesvapor.com/
That doesn't sound like a child's toy to me.
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I said I could make something that performs the same, but also acknowledged that I have a rather specialized skill set that allows me to do so, which the majority do not posses....
I thought the china part was clear. I was replying to the (rather ignorant) post that stated that box mods could never have the same performance as high end mods.
Do not settle for mediocre mods. Do yourself a favor & buy quality stainless steel from America. Buy a Precise from Super-T. If you are into variable voltage, you can pick up a stainless steel provari for less than $200. The craftsmanship of a stainless steel mod built in the USA is far from a "child's toy".
If you want a child's toy........get a lil' sister, a glv, or the myriad of other mods out there that someone is simply trying to make a buck on because "they figured out how to work with solder".
The price of a well built mechanical mod like the Precise is well worth it in the long run.
In Texas a carton of smokes would cost me $65 a week..........So, in a month, bam, you can have 2 brand new mods for what you used to put up in smoke
To call a GLV mod a toy, well that's just ludicrous, crazy, gibberish. The Precise sits on my desk looking pretty. GLVs knock the snot out of it in performance, unique style and button function, holy moly - GLVs have the best button in the industry. Laying side-by-side a few feet away, the Precise and Titanium Kgo from China look like the same PVs. The heft in the hand and tooling gives it away of course. The Precise line are well-built, beautiful American mods. So are the GLVs.
Dayum, I'm terrible with snappy comebacks.
Since you didn't and obviously couldn't defend and support your comment that PV's like the Darwin and Provari are "overpriced in comparison to similar tech", this discussion is settled.
Haters got to hate -- but Golden is a cynical pessimist, not an ahole IMO........hell, I know he's not a fan of the GG but to each his own.
Wow- I found this thread interesting in the beginning.
Sorry to watch it disintegrate. Cause the fundamental question being debated here is an interesting one.
Most of us, when we started vaping, started on standardized mass-produced ecigs. (I don't personally know anyone whose first buy was a mod.) And most of us, at that point, looked at the $150 or so (and up) mods and thought that folks who bought them were crazy.
But, I've got one on the way. Over $150. (Just a little over for the mod itself. But with all the extras, a ways over.) There are a lot of reasons for my change of heart.
One, as I got to know the cheap mass produced ecigs, I learned that their performance isn't as good. (I'm not saying it isn't good enough. If you're happy with your 510, as I was for quite some time, more power to you. And more money to you. But no way does my 510 produce as much vapor, or last as long between charges, or hit as reliably as a LOT of mods.)
I also learned that the inexpensive ecigs often cost more in the long run. When batteries die (and it's usually really the switch that dies) they aren't THAT cheap to replace. And, if you're planning to vape for a long time, which I am, an expensive mod that takes cheap batteries may be cheaper in the long run.
And, I like toys. I play in a band. You should SEE all the stuff I have to lug to a gig. Or the amount of extras my computer has. I couldn't really tell you why, but it's how I am. I'm not just looking for the basic functionality in things. I want things to be nice in the hand, nice on the eye, fun to use and to hold.
And, I'm hard on things- I dropped an ego batt, and it bent. (Where the atty connections fits into the battery tube.) A GGTS isn't going to bend or break if I drop it. I saw a video where they ran a puresmoker over with a car, then picked it up and vaped it. I like rugged.
I get carpedebass's stance- what he's got is good enough for what he wants it to do, so he's saving his money and energy to get stuff he'll enjoy more. I get that. (I have a BC rich bass that used to go to gigs in a chevette. I like guitars. I don't like cars. So driving a $2000 instrument around in a $500 car makes sense.)
I DON'T get the "I could build something just as good in my basement" argument at all. I have some technical training, and experience in a wide variety of fields. I'm pretty handy, can solder, can use CAD. Can even run a lathe. But I don't own a lathe. And if I did, I wouldn't be good enough to do the kind of fine detail low space tolerance work I see in good mods.
I could put the electronic guts that a lot of mods use together in a box, sure. Even that would involve buying some tools I don't have on hand at the moment, so my savings would be minimal.
If you could build the equivalent of a Precise on your own, you're awfully skilled. And even if you have the skills, it wouldn't make sense to buy the gear that you need to do it- if you already know how, AND you already own the tools...then it probably does make sense to make your own PVs rather than buy mods.
But that's not a situation that many people find themselves in.
FOr the rest of us, we buy them, if we want them. If we don't want them, then we don't.
Best,
Ande
Sorry to watch it disintegrate. Cause the fundamental question being debated here is an interesting one.
Most of us, when we started vaping, started on standardized mass-produced ecigs. (I don't personally know anyone whose first buy was a mod.) And most of us, at that point, looked at the $150 or so (and up) mods and thought that folks who bought them were crazy.
But, I've got one on the way. Over $150. (Just a little over for the mod itself. But with all the extras, a ways over.) There are a lot of reasons for my change of heart.
One, as I got to know the cheap mass produced ecigs, I learned that their performance isn't as good. (I'm not saying it isn't good enough. If you're happy with your 510, as I was for quite some time, more power to you. And more money to you. But no way does my 510 produce as much vapor, or last as long between charges, or hit as reliably as a LOT of mods.)
I also learned that the inexpensive ecigs often cost more in the long run. When batteries die (and it's usually really the switch that dies) they aren't THAT cheap to replace. And, if you're planning to vape for a long time, which I am, an expensive mod that takes cheap batteries may be cheaper in the long run.
And, I like toys. I play in a band. You should SEE all the stuff I have to lug to a gig. Or the amount of extras my computer has. I couldn't really tell you why, but it's how I am. I'm not just looking for the basic functionality in things. I want things to be nice in the hand, nice on the eye, fun to use and to hold.
And, I'm hard on things- I dropped an ego batt, and it bent. (Where the atty connections fits into the battery tube.) A GGTS isn't going to bend or break if I drop it. I saw a video where they ran a puresmoker over with a car, then picked it up and vaped it. I like rugged.
I get carpedebass's stance- what he's got is good enough for what he wants it to do, so he's saving his money and energy to get stuff he'll enjoy more. I get that. (I have a BC rich bass that used to go to gigs in a chevette. I like guitars. I don't like cars. So driving a $2000 instrument around in a $500 car makes sense.)
I DON'T get the "I could build something just as good in my basement" argument at all. I have some technical training, and experience in a wide variety of fields. I'm pretty handy, can solder, can use CAD. Can even run a lathe. But I don't own a lathe. And if I did, I wouldn't be good enough to do the kind of fine detail low space tolerance work I see in good mods.
I could put the electronic guts that a lot of mods use together in a box, sure. Even that would involve buying some tools I don't have on hand at the moment, so my savings would be minimal.
If you could build the equivalent of a Precise on your own, you're awfully skilled. And even if you have the skills, it wouldn't make sense to buy the gear that you need to do it- if you already know how, AND you already own the tools...then it probably does make sense to make your own PVs rather than buy mods.
But that's not a situation that many people find themselves in.
FOr the rest of us, we buy them, if we want them. If we don't want them, then we don't.
Best,
Ande
Do not settle for mediocre mods. Do yourself a favor & buy quality stainless steel from America. Buy a Precise from Super-T. If you are into variable voltage, you can pick up a stainless steel provari for less than $200. The craftsmanship of a stainless steel mod built in the USA is far from a "child's toy".
If you want a child's toy........get a lil' sister, a glv, or the myriad of other mods out there that someone is simply trying to make a buck on because "they figured out how to work with solder".
The price of a well built mechanical mod like the Precise is well worth it in the long run.
In Texas a carton of smokes would cost me $65 a week..........So, in a month, bam, you can have 2 brand new mods for what you used to put up in smoke
Wow this is pretty harsh, given that you're pretty contradictory in your video reviews and posts on ecf by saying one thing, then doing another. Giving advice & suggestions are one thing, being derogatory and putting people down is another.
Yeah- we all have our own style.
I'm (sort of) interested in the features of the Darwin. (I'd like to try one. I don't know if I'd want to own one.)
But I don't like the look, at all. And if I'm gonna be sticking something in my face several times an hour, I'm gonna have to look at it.
I want to like what I see.
Ande
I'm (sort of) interested in the features of the Darwin. (I'd like to try one. I don't know if I'd want to own one.)
But I don't like the look, at all. And if I'm gonna be sticking something in my face several times an hour, I'm gonna have to look at it.
I want to like what I see.
Ande
I feel the same way about my Old Goat 5v 25 dollar box mod over my 3.7, 750 mah Riva battery.
( However the Riva batteries are still going strong after 7 months and to replace them will cost me about 10 bucks each)
It depends on how you do it. Parts wise I learned long ago that most companies use the same type of parts. I was in AC and Heating for 20 years. I could sell you a Carrier or a Miller AC system. Carrier is top of the line and pricy. Miller is the least expencive system you can buy. The Miller even had a better warranty in some cases than the Carrier. Open them both up and with very little exception most of the parts are the same across the board. The cost the same price to replace and have the same quality. I know, I would buy these replacement parts.
I am talking about the electronics on these units, something thats applicable to this discussion.
Does a resistor in a 35 dollar VV box mod really work any better than the same one in a Provari? No. And that resistor doesn't cost 5 times as much to buy/install in one than it does in the other. What about the wire? I have yet to see a PV of any kind use 100% gold wire ( for best conduction) and so on, so unless you use the absolute cheapest parts you can get your hands on, most home mods and fancy production model e-cigs are going to use the same materials internally.
All that's left is sticking it in a case. I could put these guts into a high strength shatter proof plastic tube, make it look as nice as the Provari and sell it a lot cheaper. I could put these guts in a stainless steel tube too and still have it be lots cheaper.
If I can do that, and one would think a key factor in mass production is to keep cost down then how do 200 dollar production models justify the price? If anything, they should be the same price or cheaper than the mod I could make. They even have wholesale buying power on parts. Sure some have more features than others or fancier details they charge for. The bottom line is when it's all said and done a 200 dollar mod is not really worth 200 dollars.
The price is charged by what the company feels they can get away with and how much markup they want to make. That Provari may only cost the company 70 bucks to mass produce but if it looks nice, feels nice ( people preceive that it's solid and thus they think it will be durable) people are willing to pay more.
I also understand the desire to pay more to have something that others will perceive as "nice" .
I love my Old Goat 5v box mod but I am in the market for a metal tube style VV ( as long as it's in my price range) I want something that goes well with my 400 dollar double breasted black wool suit. I love to wear my suit and pulling an Old Goat out of the breast pocket just somehow doesn't seem right.
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Surprising what some are doing in their basements tho'
.44 Mini Booster Variable Voltage Mod - YouTube
.44 Mini Booster Variable Voltage Mod - YouTube
yeah some of theses guys/gals do some nice work in their basements its going to be interesting to see what they do when the Evolv releases the darwin controller.
I take exception to machined mods being called childs toys.
I own 2 VV tube mods, a 3rd on order. I also have a GLV. I would not think of taking my VV's out with me when hiking through the woods with my dogs and kids. Yes, I did give a Buzz a bath dunk and it survived. But my GLV is much more solid, and can take a lot more abuse. It is less likely to misfire in a pocket or get damaged when a 200 pound puppy slams into me and crushes it. LOL, but that plastic box blew to smithereens when that happened.
As for any machined mod, do you have ANY clue what it cost to produce? The cost is not affordable until 100's of units are sold. Thats just the design. And the metal composition is not necessarily cheap either. Then add to that reliability. Those "toys" often have better service behind them than your "real" units. Show me one mod that has absolutely no issues and I will call you a liar.
We see your supported mods with issues listed on this forum at least once a month. And with the cost of repairs we are shown quoted in the posts, we also know what the follow up entails. I feel I have to "baby" my VV mods. So, at least maturing into that childs mod is a step up.
But now I'll play nice. As an adult, I can say that each mod has its place. We know that a business must make money to survive. In todays economy, the mod makers are not ripping anyone off. They are surviving in a hard economy, and they are trying to put away what they will need should we find our hobby government regulated. Lets go a step further. A person who makes mods for public sale does it as his source of income. He must support the mods machining, its assembly, and its future needs should the consumer send it in for repair. This person has to make enough that the mod will sell, but also profit for paying his gas, electric and other needs. Plus he will need insurance. If this is his only job he must also be able to support a mortgage or rent, etc... A plastic box mod is cheaper, easier and faster to make. But this maker can sell more units faster for less. Each will accomplish his goals, just at different rate. I would point out that a a plastic box is a chinese product. The machined mods could honestly claim "made in America" The plastic one can only say "assembled in America". Everyone has different needs, and there are a variety of e-cigs available to meet these. Slamming them wont accomplish anything. But think before you talk smack. If you need to revise what you said, or re-think your position, do so with grace. Post a retraction, or re-post if it did not come out how you meant it to read. But dont dig the hole deeper. At 6 feet it starts to drop in on you.
I own 2 VV tube mods, a 3rd on order. I also have a GLV. I would not think of taking my VV's out with me when hiking through the woods with my dogs and kids. Yes, I did give a Buzz a bath dunk and it survived. But my GLV is much more solid, and can take a lot more abuse. It is less likely to misfire in a pocket or get damaged when a 200 pound puppy slams into me and crushes it. LOL, but that plastic box blew to smithereens when that happened.
As for any machined mod, do you have ANY clue what it cost to produce? The cost is not affordable until 100's of units are sold. Thats just the design. And the metal composition is not necessarily cheap either. Then add to that reliability. Those "toys" often have better service behind them than your "real" units. Show me one mod that has absolutely no issues and I will call you a liar.
We see your supported mods with issues listed on this forum at least once a month. And with the cost of repairs we are shown quoted in the posts, we also know what the follow up entails. I feel I have to "baby" my VV mods. So, at least maturing into that childs mod is a step up.
But now I'll play nice. As an adult, I can say that each mod has its place. We know that a business must make money to survive. In todays economy, the mod makers are not ripping anyone off. They are surviving in a hard economy, and they are trying to put away what they will need should we find our hobby government regulated. Lets go a step further. A person who makes mods for public sale does it as his source of income. He must support the mods machining, its assembly, and its future needs should the consumer send it in for repair. This person has to make enough that the mod will sell, but also profit for paying his gas, electric and other needs. Plus he will need insurance. If this is his only job he must also be able to support a mortgage or rent, etc... A plastic box mod is cheaper, easier and faster to make. But this maker can sell more units faster for less. Each will accomplish his goals, just at different rate. I would point out that a a plastic box is a chinese product. The machined mods could honestly claim "made in America" The plastic one can only say "assembled in America". Everyone has different needs, and there are a variety of e-cigs available to meet these. Slamming them wont accomplish anything. But think before you talk smack. If you need to revise what you said, or re-think your position, do so with grace. Post a retraction, or re-post if it did not come out how you meant it to read. But dont dig the hole deeper. At 6 feet it starts to drop in on you.
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