Explain the "Vape chart" to me

[twall]

If you take 32ga and get X ohms, the wire will be Y long. If you use 28ga (much thicker), and want the exact same resistance, the wire will be longer. So, in addition to being heavier, it's also longer. It will take longer to heat up. 32ga @ say, 1.8 will light almost instantly. 28ga will light very lazily at the same watts.

Yup, a lot of it is trial and error for we laymen.

 

[Lessifer]

Prebuilt coils usually have 32g or 34g wire in them, very thin, heats up pretty much instantly. Thicker wire takes longer to heat up at the same resistance.

As for why dual coils seem to "need" more power, they do, to have a comparable experience. If you have a single coil 1.8ohm, and a dual coil 1.8ohm, using the same gauge wire, the dual coil has twice the amount of wire in it. If you hit them both with 3.6v you'll get the same wattage, but the experience will be different. The dual coil will take longer to heat up, and so will feel anemic until it gets hot enough, which would probably be after your automatic shut off. So, if you're adding wire(gauge or length) you either want to lower the resistance from your "usual" or hit it with more power.

 

[DC2]

OK. I see that as a factor. I wonder what airflow is assumed on this chart? What was the standard for which this chart was developed? Just the typical clearomizer off the shelf from 3 or 4 years ago?

The chart was created at least three years ago, as far as I can remember.
And I can assure you that airflow was not considered.

In fact, back then, airflow wasn't even something anyone ever thought about.
And I'm not even sure there were clearomizers back then either.


As for what standard was used to create that chart?
Some dude.

 

[twall]

Prebuilt coils usually have 32g or 34g wire in them, very thin, heats up pretty much instantly. Thicker wire takes longer to heat up at the same resistance.

As for why dual coils seem to "need" more power, they do, to have a comparable experience. If you have a single coil 1.8ohm, and a dual coil 1.8ohm, using the same gauge wire, the dual coil has twice the amount of wire in it. If you hit them both with 3.6v you'll get the same wattage, but the experience will be different. The dual coil will take longer to heat up, and so will feel anemic until it gets hot enough, which would probably be after your automatic shut off. So, if you're adding wire(gauge or length) you either want to lower the resistance from your "usual" or hit it with more power.

That was awesome. Thank you. I get it now, myself. Clicked right in with what I've discovered about wire. Kinda should have figured it out myself, but I didn't.

Hope it helped the OP, too.

 

[Rickajho]

Explain the "Vape chart" to me

Sure. The "Vape chart" is outdated and largely irrelevant - even version 2.0 - that's based on technology and devices in use circa 2009/2010. It has little relevance to today's devices and at the time largely served two purposes: to keep you from blowing up ICR chemistry batteries and prevent you from burning out cartos. So throw that stupid vape chart away. In context of devices in use today it causes more confusion than it resolves.

You can no longer just look at a chart, pick a number, and assume you will get a "correct" vape - based on a number. "The chart" takes nothing into consideration for the design of the device you are using, it's wicking and air flow potential, and your liquids and their flavor components even. It doesn't factor in the impact use has over time on a coil and wick and the need to change your settings over time because of that. New coils/wicks seldom need as much power as an older, mucked up one.

For anyone using basic stuff like BCC clearos on any type and a VV/VW battery - just start at a low setting and move it up until you hit the flavor and vapor production you want. Change your setting as needed. It can't be more simple than that.

 

[Bored2Tears]

Yes thanks, Lessifer. Your explanation clicked for me really well too. In fairness to the other poster who was miffed at me....I think that he was saying the same thing. Sometimes you can have the same concept described a dozen different ways before it makes sense. Everyone learns differently. I'm more of a visual person.

So, this dovetails well into my Eleaf Istick debate. A lot of controversy about power delivery in that device. I want to buy one, but was concerned that my pre built 1.8 Kanger dual coils wouldn't work well with it. No one seemed to be saying with any certainty.

From your explanation, I think it should work just fine on the dual coil attys at 1.5 or 1.8 ohm. Much appreciated!!

 

[beckdg]

Thicker wire takes more current to heat up and has more surface area for juice and air flow to cool.

I vape around 80 watts.

 

[Robino1]

Yes thanks, Lessifer. Your explanation clicked for me really well too. In fairness to the other poster who was miffed at me....I think that he was saying the same thing. Sometimes you can have the same concept described a dozen different ways before it makes sense. Everyone learns differently. I'm more of a visual person.

So, this dovetails well into my Eleaf Istick debate. A lot of controversy about power delivery in that device. I want to buy one, but was concerned that my pre built 1.8 Kanger dual coils wouldn't work well with it. No one seemed to be saying with any certainty.

From your explanation, I think it should work just fine on the dual coil attys at 1.5 or 1.8 ohm. Much appreciated!!

The iStick should work with no problem. The only time things don't work well is when there is not Enough power. I think that is why you have gurgling in your current toppers. Not enough power to heat up the coil efficiently to vaporize the liquid fast enough.

As for the rudeness? Totally uncalled for and post has been deleted.

 

[Bored2Tears]

The iStick should work with no problem. The only time things don't work well is when there is not Enough power. I think that is why you have gurgling in your current toppers. Not enough power to heat up the coil efficiently to vaporize the liquid fast enough.

As for the rudeness? Totally uncalled for and post has been deleted.

I appreciate the input. I am learning more every day. I have pretty thick skin, and I don't get offended easily. I think that previous post was a bit short, but what he was saying about thickness of the wire is another factor. We were just having a miscommunication. No worries, I am very happy to be a member of this community and glad for all input.

 

[Mikey6]

If you have a single coil 1.8ohm, and a dual coil 1.8ohm, using the same gauge wire, the dual coil has twice the amount of wire in it.

Actually it's 4x as much wire. For sake of easy numbers, let's say a 1.5 single coil has 2 inches of wire. To make a dual have 1.5 ohms you need two 3 ohm coils (resistance is divided if ran in parallel, which coils would be). So each 3 ohm coil would have 4 inches of wire for a total of 8. So you get the same wattage, just a lot of lag.

Sorry to be a stickler.

 

[Lessifer]

Actually it's 4x as much wire. For sake of easy numbers, let's say a 1.5 single coil has 2 inches of wire. To make a dual have 1.5 ohms you need two 3 ohm coils (resistance is divided if ran in parallel, which coils would be). So each 3 ohm coil would have 4 inches of wire for a total of 8. So you get the same wattage, just a lot of lag.

Sorry to be a stickler.

You're absolutely right, my math was off, 4x the wire. Which furthers the point, dual an quad coils run A LOT more wire, so you either need to go lower resistance, or hit them with more power, or wait a long time for your vape to heat up.

 

[Bored2Tears]

It would be nice if more vendors or the manufacturers made it more evident and pointed out these things to us when selling the dual coils. Just a quick blurb on their website with the product descriptions would be nice. I guess some do, but not enough. But, I suppose it's on us the consumer to research before buying.

I was buying 1.8 ohm dual coils and couldn't figure out why I couldn't produce vape at 4.2 volts when the single coils at 1.8ohms was almost too hot for me at 3.4 volts. I figured resistance was the same but wasn't accounting for the surface area factors.

 

[rusirius]

I can't add much more than has already been said, but I'll do what I can to at least re-iterate the important points.

1) These "Safe Vaping" charts are old and outdated. They were from a past era. Things have progressed. At their core they are nothing more than a plot of wattage and some take into account (thought they don't list it) the heat flux generated. If you were using an ego with an old cartomizer then yes, it would be a perfect reference. On the other hand, now days it serves little better purpose than maybe a rough starting point for those brand new to vaping.

2) How much wattage you can apply to a given setup comes down to multiple factors, the most important of which are surface area, airflow and wicking.
- Airflow is carrying the vapor (which contains the heat) away. The more airflow you have the more heat you are carrying away which in turns means the more heat you can generate. Remember wattage in the case of our resistance coils is basically just a measure of how much heat is being produced. Note I said HEAT being produced, not temperature. Those are two different things.
- Wicking is supplying the juice to the coil. If the coil stays saturated with liquid then it will only get as hot as the boiling point of the juice. As the juice is vaporized it is carrying away the heat with it keeping the coil a fixed temperature. If the wicking is inadequate then the coil will dry out, which means it can't release the excess heat as vapor, and therefore rise in temperature. This can lead to burning or scorching of the wicking material and a pretty nasty taste.
- Surface area is "spreading out" the heat that's being generated. The heat flux is how much heat is being generated in a given area. This also answers your question about dual coils. If you take a standard single say 10 wrap coil and run it at 10 watts... If you double that and run two 10 wrap coils as dual coils but only put the same wattage on it, you can effectively think of it as only running 5 watts per coil. To get the same heat flux from the dual coils you'll need to run 20 watts on them. Rather it's through more wraps, more coils, etc, the more surface area you have the more power it will take to achieve the same heat flux.

With all that said, if I run a crappy clearomizer I can't go more than 7 or 8 watts without burning.... A kayfun I can build to handle a good 23 watts or so... That's with GOOD wicking and build... I believe that's about the limits of an unmodified kayfun. On the other hand, my big dripper with large coils and airflow opened all the way up I can run 70 watts on... Even my little atomic RDA with dual coils I can push a good 50+ watts...

 

[AndriaD]

That chart was probably designed a long time ago for cartomizers, and it doesn't really apply to much of anything else.
At this point in time I personally consider that chart to be mostly useless, unless you use cartomizers.

I'm not sure it can apply even to cartomizers; I vape my 3 ohm cartos in a Smoke UDCT on a Vamo set at 11 or 11.5 watts... by that chart, I'd be well into "red" territory, but it tastes just fine.

Andria