Exploring DNA20d step-down activity (re: subohm coils)

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dr g

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So I'm in the early stages of figuring out this portion of dna 20d performance, but I noticed today that having a .7 ohm coil on it and firing at 20w, fully charged battery, the board does seem to step down the voltage to a certain degree of effectiveness. It appears to be .1-.15v off from the voltage display when firing (when it boosts, that seems to be no more than .05v) but I got it to regulate down to 13.5w, at which point it fired at 2.88-2.93v (display 3.0v).

What have others found about this aspect of dna 20d operation?
 

bapgood

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Yes I have experienced the same thing and talked to Brandon about it, here is what I sent Brandon and his reply.

0.7 ohm coil, fully charged battery, and the dna is regulating down to 15w and outputting 3.3v. I didn't try lower than the 15w, but I did test with a meter and it seems to be doing what it says its doing.

Component tolerance stack-ups are slightly different with each board. Some will be able to reach a little lower v than others. But they should all be within the same general capabilities.


dr g I'm sure your aware of this, but just wanted to point it out for others that may not be familier with the DNA20 and looking to use it with low ohm RBA setups.

The DNA20 is much!!! more efficient at delivering power than any mech mod that I have tried. (I almost dare say more than any mech is capable of period, but I would hate to be that brash and start a war :D)

In an RSST I have been able to measure 4.0 volts at the coil connections while firing, when the DNA was in unregulated mode. (when the ohm reading on display is flashing indicates unregulated mode)

In my case the same setup in my best performing mech was ~3.7 volts at the coil connections while firing. The change in vape was dramatic!!! (to much on the DNA vs just right on the mech)

The nice thing about the DNA is that you can set the wattage at 20 and as the battery voltage drops, regulation will kick in and regulate at 20 watts for the remainder of the battery.

Or you can set the wattage lower and it will stay in unregulated mode and continue to efficiently deliver battery voltage just like a mech mod.

However I have found that I can get a very similar vape and stay in regulated mode with a little higher ohm coil.
 
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retird

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As we all know from reading the dna20d spec sheet it says:

Atomizer Resistance
1.0 Ohms minimum
2.5 Ohms typical
3.3 Ohms maximum

so the dna20d may function somewhat with a sub-ohm coil it seems that the design was really made around the ohm specs listed above. I am puzzled as to what the advantage of a sub-ohm coil is, but have never used one so I'm fishing for what the benefit is over just using a 1 to 3 ohm coil....teach me....he-he...
 

bapgood

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As we all know from reading the dna20d spec sheet it says:

Atomizer Resistance
1.0 Ohms minimum
2.5 Ohms typical
3.3 Ohms maximum

so the dna20d may function somewhat with a sub-ohm coil it seems that the design was really made around the ohm specs listed above. I am puzzled as to what the advantage of a sub-ohm coil is, but have never used one so I'm fishing for what the benefit is over just using a 1 to 3 ohm coil....teach me....he-he...

I would say 99% or more of us don't need it, especially with the DNA20. Mechanical mods are less efficient so there is some need to do so for someone chasing that instant big vape.

I don't do mesh so I can't really comment there.

But for larger ceramic wicks lower ohm coils helped the lag time, but I did it for limit testing as much as anything.

It takes a special wick and coil setup to use that much power efficiently and consistently.

With a ceramic wick I can get a great vape for a few minutes of fairly consistent vaping, but the atty and everything inside would get hot and needed to cool before another session.

I love the taste and performance of ceramic, but also still love a tanked carto for ease, consistency, and lack of leaky messyness.
 

dr g

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At the risk of oversimplification, subohm coils are usually built with larger diameter wires which provide more surface area vs level of heat. Bottom line is you get greater vapor volume at the same or even sometimes lower heat. The goal is, in a way, to make a larger smoke machine, which of course takes more power, especially to maintain responsivity. The ability to run subohm coils is actually one of the unique features of the DNA 20d and a major advantage.

Anyway further testing results for me ... with my single .7 ohm coil, once it drops out of regulation it only goes back up to ~3.3v. It's not an amp limit as far as I can tell since it successfully pushes ~3.6v at 20w setting. NCR18650PD so it should not sag to 3.3v with a 5A load. Strange.
 
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retird

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Thanks for the info.... so making a .7 ohm coil with larger wire gives a better vape....then making a 1.0 ohm coil with the same wire will produce a vape that is not as good as a .7 ohm coil? just wanting to better understand....thx

At the risk of oversimplification, subohm coils are usually built with larger diameter wires which provide more surface area vs level of heat. Bottom line is you get greater vapor volume at the same or even sometimes lower heat. The goal is, in a way, to make a larger smoke machine, which of course takes more power, especially to maintain responsivity. The ability to run subohm coils is actually one of the unique features of the DNA 20d and a major advantage.

Anyway further testing results for me ... with my single .7 ohm coil, once it drops out of regulation it only goes back up to ~3.3v. It's not an amp limit as far as I can tell since it successfully pushes ~3.6v at 20w setting. NCR18650PD so it should not sag to 3.3v with a 5A load. Strange.
 

Visus

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sub-ohm coils overnic, and overdose ya in two or three vapes with 6mg nic they are so un-enjoyble if using nic
also the head tilt to blow out the locomotive sized vapor, also annoying in social public, the cloud doesn't dissipate quickly.. Ive stopped making them along with micro coils so much dosage of nic its unbelievable.

the dna 4v on sub coils makes it so badas' wow great to know for a vape meet lol...

wait til they get a load of me... lol
 

dr g

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Thanks for the info.... so making a .7 ohm coil with larger wire gives a better vape....then making a 1.0 ohm coil with the same wire will produce a vape that is not as good as a .7 ohm coil? just wanting to better understand....thx

It's not as simple as a yes or no answer, there are many different ways to build a coil. In order to build a 1 ohm coil with the same wire as a .7 ohm coil you will be adding length to the wire, and depending on how you structure that wire it can have different effects.

sub-ohm coils overnic, and overdose ya in two or three vapes with 6mg nic they are so un-enjoyble if using nic
also the head tilt to blow out the locomotive sized vapor, also annoying in social public, the cloud doesn't dissipate quickly.. Ive stopped making them along with micro coils so much dosage of nic its unbelievable.

the dna 4v on sub coils makes it so badas' wow great to know for a vape meet lol...

wait til they get a load of me... lol

It should go without saying that nicotine delivery and personal enjoyment are extremely subjective. As of course is anything social.
 

Visus

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:lol: sub ohm coil = over nic :lol:

What's a vape meet?

Yeah its an eye opener to how powerful nicotine is. I vape 12mg, I lowered it to 6mg its still tooooo much on a sub Ω or 1.7-2.0Ω micro coil:facepalm:.. I can vape 12mg all day with a 510-t or ce4, nova, genny @2.4Ω no problems -- a few locomotive vapes on a sub or micro coil and weird overnic'd feels..

The local B&M has vape meets weekly (Windy City Vapers Club Meet), we also have a vape lounge -- they have 50ml custom vivi nova's and homemade juices that I have heard the flavors are second to none..

 

bapgood

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Yeah its an eye opener to how powerful nicotine is. I vape 12mg, I lowered it to 6mg its still tooooo much on a sub Ω or 1.7-2.0Ω micro coil:facepalm:.. I can vape 12mg all day with a 510-t or ce4, nova, genny @2.4Ω no problems -- a few locomotive vapes on a sub or micro coil and weird overnic'd feels..

The local B&M has vape meets weekly (Windy City Vapers Club Meet), we also have a vape lounge -- they have 50ml custom vivi nova's and homemade juices that I have heard the flavors are second to none..


Sorry my post was meant to be sarcastic

I disagree 100% that sub ohm coils equate to over nic. There may be some association between the two, but not independently. It's blind vague statements like that, that mislead people. (more in a later post)


As far as vape meets go...yes I know what they are, however not very prominent in my neck of the woods....the sarcastic point I was trying to make is that myself and likely dr g aren't trying to impress anyone. Just experimenting with vape options and capabilities of the equipment.

IMHO your first post in this thread was a baseless opinion followed with remarks intended to belittle and demean. Next time try something like - It has been my experience that sub-ohm coils overnic. Then leave the rest of the stuff in your head.
 

retird

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Thanks for the info.... so making a .7 ohm coil with larger wire gives a better vape....then making a 1.0 ohm coil with the same wire will produce a vape that is not as good as a .7 ohm coil? just wanting to better understand....thx

I will enjoy reading future posts and hopefully getting an answer to the question I posed. My experience with VW over the past two years lets me use a 2.0, 2.5, or 3.0 ohm carto all set to 8.4 watts and each gives me the same experience since the voltage adjust for the ohm difference. This is why I asked the question. It seems that this same principle would apply to any coil tho I understand a sub-ohm coil cannot be regulated fully due to the dna20d specifications. My thinking was that a 1 ohm coil could be better regulated with the dna20d than a .7 ohm coil.....

Looking forward to you guys continuing discussion.....
 

bapgood

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Thanks for the info.... so making a .7 ohm coil with larger wire gives a better vape....then making a 1.0 ohm coil with the same wire will produce a vape that is not as good as a .7 ohm coil? just wanting to better understand....thx

I can't answer your question, only you can answer your question young grasshopper :D

There are to many variables to say yes or no. Here is my take - It could produce a better vape as long there was enough juice available to be vaporized by the added heat, or could be harsh and nasty if there isn't enough juice and you get into a dry burn situation.

A lot of this goes into what is discussed in the thread that your probably familiar with http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-not-matter-its-all-about-wire-temp-read.html

But here is an analogy for how I understand things...

Think of it like a gas engine. You have fuel and air, the more of both at the right mixture the more power you get. But to much fuel in the mixture and the engine runs rich and eventually may foul a spark plug or etc., to much air in the mixture and the engine runs lean and can get really hot leading to all sorts of problems or etc. So no matter if your trying to get down the drag strip as fast as possible, going on a Sunday cruise, or lugging a trailer up a long hill, you want the fuel mixture correct. You just want more of it for drag racing or lugging the trailer.

Now that is oversimplifying an engine....but in an atty you have juice and heat (coil) and a delivery system (wick)

So like in an engine you want the right fuel mixture and qty for the load, an atty you want the correct amount of heat to vaporize the qty of juice being delivered. (my analogy is kind of falling apart, but I hope you follow)

So I would say a carto is like a nice Sunday cruise in a nice reliable and comfortable car. Its not capable of getting you down the drag strip the fastest, but it gets you from point A to point B reliably and uses a lot less fuel to do so.

An RBA can be setup a lot of ways but for this its going to be the drag car, setup to deliver as much fuel and air as possible to get you down the strip as fast as possible with out blowing up. The RBA like a race car has many more setting and tweaks available to maximize the performance, but one thing remains very important. You want the correct amount of heat for supply of juice. To much heat and not enough juice is going to be a harsh nasty vape, to much juice and not enough heat and you may not get a vape at all.

Like a finely tuned engine, its not likely that you can simply change one thing and increase performance. Unless it was not running efficiently to start with.

The same holds true for your atty, simply reducing the ohm amount of the coil would only produce a better vape if there was already excess juice that wasn't being efficiently used before.

Then you get into the leapfrog game of increase this to keep up with that, to get the ultimate "drag race" RBA. Which is where I think Visus's sub-ohm coils = overnic, comes into play. Because if a person is use to a particular amount of vapor and then switches to a setup that produces either a much more efficient vape of their current setup or greater performance "drag race" vape. It would make sense that the amount of juice being efficiently vaped would go up as would intake of nic.

But it all comes down to person preference, you are the performance measuring device.
 

dr g

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I will enjoy reading future posts and hopefully getting an answer to the question I posed. My experience with VW over the past two years lets me use a 2.0, 2.5, or 3.0 ohm carto all set to 8.4 watts and each gives me the same experience since the voltage adjust for the ohm difference. This is why I asked the question. It seems that this same principle would apply to any coil tho I understand a sub-ohm coil cannot be regulated fully due to the dna20d specifications. My thinking was that a 1 ohm coil could be better regulated with the dna20d than a .7 ohm coil.....

The fact that different resistance cartos vape similarly at the same wattage is a byproduct of the design, and the fact that you are not changing the general design of the coil and wick between resistances. As I have mentioned elsewhere on these forums, resistance per se isn't all that descriptive. That said there is a large difference between "consumer" setups like cartos and "enthusiast" setups like RBAs.

To delve just a quick bit into it without going too far, the difference in coil surface area between a 2 ohm carto and 3 ohm carto is minimal because it's all packed into the same small space, and heating performance is very high to the point of fairly easily being able to exceed the limits of the coil-wick package. The difference in coil surface area between a 2 ohm carto and a typical 1 ohm RBA is huge, and generally wick designs in RBAs allow much greater power handling, so you can far exceed the vapor production. That was highly simplified, but suffice to say that design means everything.

You can get a bit of a taste of the difference by looking at the different performance between single and dual coil cartos.
 
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