Explosion at Vape Blast

[DaveP]

I agree that eventually the government will only approve regulated mods. FDA approval? OSHA approval?

It's funny, but it's becoming reality. For anyone who saw the cartoon "Horse after OSHA" will chuckle, but it's coming.
OSHA Fines NJ eCig Company

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/legislation-news/397848-osha-getting-involved-now.html

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

This constantly pisses me off Maurice. I mean if the suppliers don't get it right, people who actually read/listen to safety messages don't stand a chance

It isn't restricted to the vaping world, I breed reptiles and the critters they eat, I vend at reptile shows and see misinformation flying around like confetti at a Macy's parade in New York. The old timers with experience will be okay, but the new people suffer failure after failure (and this is with live animals).

This act of providing bad information to consumers kills markets by reduction of interest due to failure after failure because people have this tendency to trust the sales person and believe they have some high level of expertise.

I'm no expert on vaping, I know enough to keep myself out of trouble and have a good vape experience. But in the world I work in where I do have expertise, the level of anger I have for vendors who give out information that is so utterly false that it will ultimately kill a persons pet makes me furious in a very unhealthy way.

I'm a proponent of self regulation, I believe strongly that nearly every industry should have what equates to a regulating entity that directs what is or is not a best practice and to some extent holds companies accountable for not measuring up to what is a best practice. This exists in the medical field and has a huge impact on quality of care, I'm sure it could be done elsewhere too, yet there is often heavy resistance to any form of regulation, even when that regulation comes from within the industry itself.

I know ECF has a big impact on the electronic cigarette industry, but in this sea of stupidity that we are trying to remain afloat in it seems to be impossible to keep our boat from taking on stupid faster than we can get rid of it.

Maurice

 

[TomGeorge]

That's a better shop, where some shope employees no nothing, I went to one where the guy kept telling me a 35 amp Efest is better than a VTC5 and asked why the Efest would always be sold out, when they still have Sonys in stock?

There are ways for stores to force safety on people who are first time buyers, but it would cost them money and some sales, which is why I think it won't happen unless the government steps in even more.

Many B&Ms around have vape meets and raffles and cloud contest, some have paid coil building lessons, but never safety.

Would you go to a car safety show? or a football safety show? or a how to eat safety show? people crash, people get paralyzed and or die early because of football injuries and people choke and die or have allergic reactions and die.

I am pretty sure that there are no safety meetings or warnings for that are more than "professional driver on a closed course, do not attempt" in faded letters at the bottom of the screen.

I understand that the vaping community is under a lot of heat right now, but if we as vapers, because of one incident, that hasnt even been brought up on the national media stage yet (to my knowledge), start backpedaling then the government and bureaucrats are going to trample all over us. It sucks that it happened, and its a blessing no one go hurt but stupid people are a part of life and no amount of safety regulations, or warning labels can get rid of stupid people or stop them from making stupid mistakes.

Could you imagine having to take a written test every time you wanted to buy a new atty or mod, or kanthal or something crazy like that? or even an online one? people would look up the answers, pass the test and still do builds and make modifications just the same and all it would do would annoy all the smart safe users.

I am not against trying to better inform people, but going about it in the ways that have been discussed just seem reactionary and more harmful then helpful and its a product of the no accountability society that we live in today (its not the users fault its the B&M's fault, well its not their fault its the clone suppliers fault, well its not their fault its the manufactures fault for not telling the cloners that if the use cheep materials and dont advise against using this and this or doing that and that to the mod, so on and so forth).

I guess my point it you cant regulate out stupid, or accidents. B&M's could have safety videos on loops in their store and hand out safety brochures but thats about the only thing I see working that doesnt have vapers losing ground without gaining anything. Its all about accountability.

P.S. This was not directed directly at you tayone, I liked most of the tings you have been saying, but it fit well with the overall attitude of the thread

 

[Ozwald]

It isn't restricted to the vaping world, I breed reptiles and the critters they eat, I vend at reptile shows and see misinformation flying around like confetti at a Macy's parade in New York. The old timers with experience will be okay, but the new people suffer failure after failure (and this is with live animals).

This act of providing bad information to consumers kills markets by reduction of interest due to failure after failure because people have this tendency to trust the sales person and believe they have some high level of expertise.

I'm no expert on vaping, I know enough to keep myself out of trouble and have a good vape experience. But in the world I work in where I do have expertise, the level of anger I have for vendors who give out information that is so utterly false that it will ultimately kill a persons pet makes me furious in a very unhealthy way.

I'm a proponent of self regulation, I believe strongly that nearly every industry should have what equates to a regulating entity that directs what is or is not a best practice and to some extent holds companies accountable for not measuring up to what is a best practice. This exists in the medical field and has a huge impact on quality of care, I'm sure it could be done elsewhere too, yet there is often heavy resistance to any form of regulation, even when that regulation comes from within the industry itself.

I know ECF has a big impact on the electronic cigarette industry, but in this sea of stupidity that we are trying to remain afloat in it seems to be impossible to keep our boat from taking on stupid faster than we can get rid of it.

Maurice

So you're suggesting that the info I got about feeding my retic by holding the rabbit with my teeth might be incorrect?

I know exactly what you're talking about. I haven't had reptiles for a number of years now, but when I did, it was baffling what some so-called experts would tell you.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

So you're suggesting that the info I got about feeding my retic by holding the rabbit with my teeth might be incorrect?

I know exactly what you're talking about. I haven't had reptiles for a number of years now, but when I did, it was baffling what some so-called experts would tell you.

LOL, that, and it'll do fine in a 75 gallon aquarium with a screen top

I keep a quite a few monitors, its a hard sell when I explain that the housing I provide each of the adults cost me between $1k and $2k for moderatly sized and properly equipped enclosures.

I know telling someone the whole gamut of safety stuff is taking away time from the sales pitch, but truth needs its time as well.

Maybe I'll send that 0.04 ohm YouTube guy an adult male crocodile monitor, with instructions to hand feed it live baby chicks. That'll end up about the same as a 26650 mod exploding.

Maurice

 

[AndriaD]

stupid people are a part of life and no amount of safety regulations, or warning labels can get rid of stupid people or stop them from making stupid mistakes.

Could you imagine having to take a written test every time you wanted to buy a new atty or mod, or kanthal or something crazy like that?

IMO, people should be forced to take an IQ test before procreating! With a minimum score (100 is "average") required or they get sterilized! Because stupid people BREED TOO FAST!!!

Andria

 

[DC2]

That's straight bs to me. I don't speak or read Chinese, so even if they did inform me I wouldn't know. It's my responsibility to be aware of safety. As is it each person vaping individualy responsible to be aware of the safety concerns and precautions.

No.

There are millions of people on this planet that aren't the least bit aware that batteries are dangerous.
And those people are NOT stupid, they just have never been MADE aware.

Some people here seem to think it's obvious or something.
Well, I hate to break it to you, but it's not.

 

[DC2]

You know what else can be dangerous?Cars,bikes,walking across the road,eating lots of fast food,drinking...you get the point.If someone who doesnt know how to drive crashes their car then whos fault is it?It is definitely not the car dealerships fault,it is the fault of the user.The same applies to ecig safety.Some people are just dumb in general.Before I got my first RDA i had already watched at least 20 different coil build videos and read tons of information online and watched some videos on batteries.People need to take responsibility for their own actions and ignorance is never a good excuse.

How do we knows cars are dangerous? Because it's obvious.
How do we know walking across the street is dangerous? Because it's obvious.
How do we know that fast food is dangerous? Because we have been MADE aware of that fact.

See how it works?

 

[Keeferes]

No.

There are millions of people on this planet that aren't the least bit aware that batteries are dangerous.
And those people are NOT stupid, they just have never been MADE aware.

Some people here seem to think it's obvious or something.
Well, I hate to break it to you, but it's not.

So it's not my responsibility to learn safety about the things I do? It should be spoon fed to me? There's warning labels on the packaging so it's no one else's job for me to seek further information. That's ridiculous. Statements like that are how McDonald's got sued over hot coffee and now there's warnings.

 

[DC2]

I agree with this zoiDman. The problem is I don't think things will change from the retailers end because there is no real incentive for them to do it yet. I think they will need to either be sued into changing or regulated into it. It sucks, but it is what it is.

This. It will happen one way or another, you can bet on that.

 

[zoiDman]

...

It's funny, but it's becoming reality. For anyone who saw the cartoon "Horse after OSHA" will chuckle, but it's coming.
OSHA Fines NJ eCig Company

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/legislation-news/397848-osha-getting-involved-now.html

I am Not surprised by this in at all. Because being Cited by OSHA is a Very Common occurrence among Small Businesses. But what is Troubling is the Issuing of Fines.

Because OSHA does Not Usually fine someone for all but the Most Egregious Safety Violations on their First Visit.

They will Usually come in, do a Site Inspection, make a List on Non-Compliant Items, and then give a Timeline for Compliance for Each Item.

Some Items may Require Immediate Compliance. Where Others may have a X Days to Compliance Requirement. Then OSHA Leaves and Comes Back at a Later Date to do Another Inspect.

It is Rare to have OSHA come back and Find Non-Compliant Items. Because you have been Told Exactly what Must Be Done, and How Soon you Need it Done. But if OSHA does come back, and Non-Compliance Items have not be Remedied, that is when OSHA Gets Ugly. And the Issuance of Fines is Very Common. This is all Run-of-the-Mill stuff for Companies.

Where OSHA Can and Many Times Does Issue Immediate Fine is when there are Serious and Immediate Dangers to Employees. And many of these have to do with Chemical Storage and or Handling.

Here is a Overview of the OSHA action. Notice the Date of the Release.

https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=23844

And here is the Actual Citation. The Citations start on Page #6

https://www.osha.gov/ooc/citations/ESmoke-655718.pdf

---

Just like an Exploding Mod at a Vape Meet should be a Wakeup Call to Event Coordinators. An OSHA Inspection and Subsequent Citations/Fines should be a Wakeup for e-Liquid Retailers.

 

[zoiDman]

So it's not my responsibility to learn safety about the things I do? It should be spoon fed to me? There's warning labels on the packaging so it's no one else's job for me to seek further information. That's ridiculous. Statements like that are how McDonald's got sued over hot coffee and now there's warnings.

I Don't like to look at Most Aspects of Product Safety as "Black and White", either the Consumer has Full Responsibility or the Seller of the Product/OEM has Full Responsibility. I see it More as a Shared Responsibility.

But How Much is Each Party Responsible for?

In Areas where there is No Need for Technical Expertise, much of the Responsibility would fall on the Consumer. Everyone Knows that Coffee is Hot. And Everyone Knows that if you Pour Hot Coffee on you Crotch, you might have a Problem. In this Case, the Bulk of the Responsibility would, to Me, be on the Consumer to Ensure that they Don't Pour Coffee on their Crotch.

But Take Li-Ion or LIpo Batteries. A Higher Degree of Expertise is Needed. And as Basic as Ohms Law is, Very Few People in the General Population will know how to Calculate the Amps for a Given Volts and Resistance. So Here, I see the Bulk of the Responsibility lies on the Seller/OEM.

But One Important thing. Don't Confuse Safety and Responsibility with Prevention. You Can't Stop People from Doing Stupid Things. Dish Rag Man in those Videos is a Good Example.

What the Responsibility I keep Refereeing to is to Provide Safety Information to the Consumer. If they Read it, or even if they Don't, and then Choose to Stack 26650 Batteries in a Non Vented Mech Mod with a .03 Ohms Coil, well, Such is Life.

As Long as the Seller provided an Easy to Access and Complete Overview on Battery Safety, I feel the Seller has done Their Job. And have Fulfilled Their Responsibility.

 

[DC2]

I believe that Greed is a Tremendously Powerful Driving Force in Many People. But that Same Force can used Many Times to Achieve other Goals besides Bottom Line Profits.

Selling Safety is a Tough Sell. Because Safety Doesn't Sell. But if you can Show an Owner how they can Bring in More People, and slap a little Safety on the while they are their, that's kinda a Win Win.

---

Store Employees can be Mis-Guided. Some want to Sell you Something so their Weekly Sales Figures look good. Some Want to Sell You what they Use because they Like it. Even if the Person who is Buying knows NOTHING about what is going on. And Some Employees are just Plain Dolts.

But By Definition, an Employee has a Boss. And that is where Sales Policies should be Coming from.

There is a B&M near my House. If you walk in and ask, they will Build a Coil for you. It's kinda a Come On. But they Won't do it unless you Tell them What Type of Batteries / Mod you have. And can tell them how many Amps are going to be drawn.

This Didn't come from the Employees. It Came from the Owner.

This is where we need to be.

 

[DC2]

ROFL! There used to be a computer tech support joke along these lines. "Is your computer plugged in?" "Yes" "Ok, unplug it, take it back to the store, and tell them you need a refund because you're just too stupid to operate a computer."

And of course there is the timeless EBKAC error...
Error between keyboard and chair

 

[zoiDman]

This is where we need to be.

It Would be Nice.

But I would Settle for just Heading in that General Direction.

This is the Hot Topic for the Week. But it will Slowly Fad. Or be Replaced be Replaced with the Next Hot Topic.

I predict that in 5 Days, No One Will be Talking about Exploding Mods or Battery Safety. Just Like No One is Talking about the FDA Anymore.

 

[Ozwald]

It Would be Nice.

But I would Settle for just Heading in that General Direction.

This is the Hot Topic for the Week. But it will Slowly Fad. Or be Replaced be Replaced with the Next Hot Topic.

I predict that in 5 Days, No One Will be Talking about Exploding Mods or Battery Safety. Just Like No One is Talking about the FDA Anymore.

Who ?

 

[zoiDman]

Who ?

Who What ?

 

[Ryedan]

When i was watching him ''vaping'',i was on the edge of my freakn seat,expecting to se his head explode any second,VERY nerve wracking to watch,id love to kick his {MODERATED}

I reacted the same way HR. Just waiting for it to go bad and wondering if the battery was going to pop quietly, or go with a bang.

This kind of stupidity isn't restricted to vaping, it's from lack of intelligence and can come out in many ways. It didn't take me long to figure out this next guy was not the sharpest tool in the shed just from what he said. Then he put the shell in the gun and I knew what was going to happen next and I don't know guns. Talk about on the edge of my seat! Check this out for a sick laugh: https :// www. youtube.com/watch?v=4nNV1yODY4c

 

[DC2]

So it's not my responsibility to learn safety about the things I do? It should be spoon fed to me? There's warning labels on the packaging so it's no one else's job for me to seek further information. That's ridiculous. Statements like that are how McDonald's got sued over hot coffee and now there's warnings.

A consumer should not necessarily be spoon-fed safety information...
Because in the end it is the responsibility of the consumer to keep themselves safe.

But the consumer should absolutely be made aware that what they are doing could be very dangerous.
Because if they aren't made aware, they won't even know that they are dealing with something that they need to inform themselves on.

It's not hard to inform consumers at the point of sale, but very few seem to be doing it.
And some day they are going to get sued out of their house and home.

And we'll ALL suffer for it.

 

[DC2]

It Would be Nice.

But I would Settle for just Heading in that General Direction.

This is the Hot Topic for the Week. But it will Slowly Fad. Or be Replaced be Replaced with the Next Hot Topic.

I predict that in 5 Days, No One Will be Talking about Exploding Mods or Battery Safety. Just Like No One is Talking about the FDA Anymore.

Until the next explosion...


It seems some people in this thread are not recognizing how LUCKY everyone involved in this incident really is.
It is pretty amazing that nobody got hurt when you think about it.