Explosion at Vape Blast

[AttyPops]

You know, the more I think of it the less I need a mod that looks like an AR-15.

AttyPops goes to a parade or marathon, AR-15 looking mod poking out of jacket pocket (cold out). AttyPops taken out by security sniper. Or tackled. Or whatever....

I guess the topper would give it away as an e-cig though. So maybe no issues.

Like I said...I worry too much! Sounds heavier than needed though, so for an e-cig it doesn't appeal to me. Not really "into guns" anyway so it doesn't appeal to me for that reason either. I do like the vent holes and sturdy design though, from that standpoint.

Yep... that's the AR and it is HEAVY and it IS a little rough on the hands. They could have "tumbled" it in a steel shot tumbler to calm down the sharp edges IMO but it will last forever and it can never be called a "pipe bomb". It's got 20 huge holes around it.

 

[tj99959]

However, I would point out that when a battery explodes ... it explodes, regardless of how many vent holes are there. It's a completely different phenomenon than just venting. When a battery explodes that way the entire event happens in a millisecond.

How would vent holes in a mod change this? This is when charging, but illustrates the force that would need to be contained.

 

[Dredge]

You know, the more I think of it the less I need a mod that looks like an AR-15.

AttyPops goes to a parade or marathon, AR-15 looking mod poking out of jacket pocket (cold out). AttyPops taken out by security sniper. Or tackled. Or whatever....

Local man arrested for having unregistered High Capacity Assault Vape Pen. We need these off our streets!

 

[Equilibrium]

You know, the more I think of it the less I need a mod that looks like an AR-15.

AttyPops goes to a parade or marathon, AR-15 looking mod poking out of jacket pocket (cold out). AttyPops taken out by security sniper. Or tackled. Or whatever....

I guess the topper would give it away as an e-cig though. So maybe no issues.

Like I said...I worry too much! Sounds heavier than needed though, so for an e-cig it doesn't appeal to me. Not really "into guns" anyway so it doesn't appeal to me for that reason either. I do like the vent holes and sturdy design though, from that standpoint.

Local man arrested for having unregistered High Capacity Assault Vape Pen. We need these off our streets!

LOL.... I never thought about any of that!!

 

[AttyPops]

Bah, I'm pretty much joking. That's all. I think the topper would give it away as an ecig. So would vaping it.

Still, sounds a bit heavy and rough from what was described above. But that's me. It certainly looks well vented and tough. So it would appeal to many looking for those qualities. (I want to be fair to the vendor...I'm not bashing it at all. Very well vented. )

@tj...yeah. Battery type is important too. The safer-chem ones. We used to say protected, then there were reports of protection circuits failing (you don't get all the reports when they work properly). And then we have reports like baditude posts where a safe chem battery expanded all out during venting.
It's a combo thing. Safest battery you can use plus safely vented mod.

 

[Equilibrium]

Bah, I'm pretty much joking. That's all. I think the topper would give it away as an ecig. So would vaping it.

Still, sounds a bit heavy and rough from what was described above. But that's me. It certainly looks well vented and tough. So it would appeal to many looking for those qualities. (I want to be fair to the vendor...I'm not bashing it at all. Very well vented. )

Sorry to get off topic..........
It's a very nice mod But my only complaint is that it is rough on the hands after awhile. Built like a tank though!

 

[TomGeorge]

Bah, I'm pretty much joking. That's all. I think the topper would give it away as an ecig. So would vaping it.

haha i think the fact that it could be pulled out of a pocket would give it away. "worlds smallest assault rifle, the size of a small flashlight"

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

However, I would point out that when a battery explodes ... it explodes, regardless of how many vent holes are there. It's a completely different phenomenon than just venting. When a battery explodes that way the entire event happens in a millisecond.

How would vent holes in a mod change this? This is when charging, but illustrates the force that would need to be contained.

Nothing in that video demonstrates the force required to contain the venting gasses from that battery...it demonstrates how a batter of that type fails in open air nothing more.

And trust me, a rapid flameout is always better than chucking metal fragments in random directions rather quickly.

Maurice

 

[TomGeorge]

I'm not reading through 90% crapola, but did anyone mention the fact/possibility that convention centers may be less likely to allow vape oriented meetings after something like this, especially fire department permits, etc... Where said centers simply wouldn't want to incur the expense involved with updating their fire safety protocols to allow such future events to take place?

Tapa-shutup

I dont see this being an issue. At least not for the reason you mentioned. Convention centers and building meant to hold large crowds of people are built with huge factors of safety involved it them. They are also built to stay standing as long as possible so everyone inside can get out before it collapses. Obviously that is a worst case, and very unlikely scenario. Convention centers hold cooking conventions and craft beer conventions and all sorts of stuff that would require the fire suppression systems and protocols to be up to date.

I see the issues being related to damage to the property, (even though if would/should be paid for by the hosting venue) and the negative stigma of people getting hurt in the convention center, and making people not want to go to other events there because the feel it is unsafe. I can see this becoming an issue if it keeps happening but not after one incident where no one got hurt. They may make the security deposit bigger and require them to have a larger insurance policy

Maybe I focused too much on one detail in your post, but that is what I thought could be the issue.

 

[Dredge]

...But my only complaint is that it is rough on the hands after awhile...

That was the main reason I went with the Maraxus when I bought my first mod. It was solid no doubt, but I had think of the continued use and the ridges on it were already kinda rough just playing with it. I might give it a fair shake one of these days though. Just cause it looks so damn cool lol

 

[AndriaD]

My point was he took the time to look in to certain threads and claimed he read the whole threads and linked those threads in his post to try to prove a point, but the threads he read he didn't attempt to solve any issues by posting a reply about safety. So for the threads he linked it can easily be said it was his responsibility, if he seen a problem and could added to the solution instead of just posting links.

Also ECF does have a search button and stickies about sub ohms and many other topics, that should be read. People also need to be smart enough to research before they do most anything.

You can't blame others for something you could of done too but chose to ignore.

I agree with you; I got here in January, started vaping in February, and pretty close to first starting out, I became interested in mech mods because of the potentially impending "vapocalypse" -- but I read the battery safety article in the ECF library, and began to realize that I was dealing with something potentially very dangerous, and considering that I knew exactly nothing about electricity, building coils, or any of the other aspects of being a safe vaper, I figured it would be better to wait, and learn, and grow a lot more familiar with vaping in general, and removable-battery mods in particular. So I stayed with regulated mods until earlier this month, when I finally got a mech, because I felt I had become familiar enough with safety issues related to these things that I would be able to operate it safely. And just now, my vapemail arrived -- a charger with a digital display which shows a battery's charge, so I no longer have to use a regulated mod just to know how much charge a battery contains.

All of vaping is a do-it-yourself project -- we choose to vape instead of smoke; we choose to advance beyond cigalikes; we choose to advance even past regulated to the mech world -- that being the case, it's incumbent on the users of these devices to LEARN to handle them safely. If they aren't prepared to read and learn, then they really ought to stay with cigalikes, because as you rightly point out, even regulated mods have their dangers -- they have vent holes too, for what should now be very obvious reasons!

Andria

 

[zoiDman]

My Sigelei Zmax has about 5 holes on the bottom. My Provari has one, but it also has a top cap on the other end that utilizes a red rubber o-ring to secure it. That lets the cap pop off in case the battery swells and seals off the bottom hole. Still, they could have drilled a few more holes in the bottom battery cap.

The Key to me on a Tube Mod is that Venting Gases have someplace to go If/When the Battery Swells.

A Hole in the End Cap is a No Brainer. It also poses no Manufacturing Challenges. In that the End Cap is Turned. Doing a C-Drill/Drill/Chamfer operation is No Big Deal. So Gases can Exit Below the Battery.

It Above the Battery that seems to be the Most Critical for Most Tube Mod Designs.

The Last Thing you want to happen is to have the 510 Connector, or the Complete Top of the Mod, pushed out by a Build Up in Gases Pressure. Because there is a Very High Likelihood that the User could have the Mod in there Mouth, or pointed at their face when things go Bad.

And could turn your Tank or RBA into a Projectile Pointed at your Adam's Apple. Not Good.

Gaps around the Power Button, +/- Buttons, or a Screen can act as Vent Holes. Probably Not as Good as Dedicated Vent Holes or Slots. But at least Better than Nothing.

But Most Mech Mods that I have seen Don't have a Side Button. They are Just Tubes with a Switch on the End Cap. These to me Pose a Huge Potential for Catastrophic Failure. The Battery Swells, End Hole becomes Useless, Ka-Boom.

 

[zoiDman]

If things like this become a regularity, I see vapeing events being moved to outside venues.

I'm not reading through 90% crapola, but did anyone mention the fact/possibility that convention centers may be less likely to allow vape oriented meetings after something like this, especially fire department permits, etc... Where said centers simply wouldn't want to incur the expense involved with updating their fire safety protocols to allow such future events to take place?

Tapa-shutup

I think what you will see is that Hosting Venues are more concerned with the Potential Liability of a Personal Injury.

Of course, Fire would always be a Valid Concern. But the Thought of a Cloud Blowing Contestant blowing His Fingers Off, or a Bystander getting a piece of an Exploding Mod in the Neck, will make a Venue's Lawyer Cringe.

 

[AndriaD]

I worry about those who can't explain I=E/R and it's related permutations.

I can't explain that myself -- but I've studied up, asked a lot of questions, and READ, on how to stay safe, what to look for, and what NOT to do, and since I never build coils below 1.5Ω, I think I'm pretty safe even with my total mathematical dunce-ness.

Show me a mathematical equation (especially one where the letters don't correspond to the represented word) and my eyes cross. Tell me, do this and that and the other thing if you want to keep your battery from exploding, I PAY ATTENTION!

Andria

 

[Racehorse]

Everybody who was there is terrified the ANTZ will get this story and trying to be as quiet as possible.

I agree about not *beating up on anybody* but I don't agree about the other part.

Look, the "road to credibility" is long and there are many bumps and ditches. Brave people are brave because they believe in what they are doing. Cowards cut n' run and/or sweep stuff under the rug.

It will take a while to gain credibility. Stuff happens in every new industry and/or product. Those that really can't make it now have littered the internet with "404 Page Not Found" or "domain available". There are millions of those.

It is precisely when they are breathing down your neck that you lay you cards on the table. Because if you don't, you are admitting there is a problem THAT CAN"T BE SOLVED and/or THAT THERE IS SOMETHING TO HIDE.

And, that is not the case with vaping. Dr. F. did a study trying to solve possible flavoring risks, others will look into safer mods and safer charging and perhaps, soon, even safer batteries in general.

I so much resent people who want to hide. They are doing the MOST damage to our cause IMHO.

Those who don't hide, and a few things don't work out in your favor, that's the way it goes. But other things WILL work out. The point is to keep your head up and be available, be accountable, be willing to discuss and problem solve.

Otherwise, all we have are a bunch of hit n' runs and I don't want to even be associated with that kind of reputation as a vaper. I have never had to do it in my professional life and I'm not about to do it now. (and I went thru the dot.com busts, the banking failures, all of us in the telecom industry and IT were getting laid off, etc. (or quitting because lots of people will not lie for a job). If somebody wants vaping to become a secret society then have at it. I want it to be mainstream and respectable.

And EVENTUALLY, that will happen.

 

[Projectguy]

I wonder what/if the vaping industry is doing to come with a "certification" process. Before everyone starts clicking their mouses or track pads or screens to death yes, I recognize that:

1. We'll never be able to deal with the rogue elements of our community who insist on trying to turn themselves into unfortunate statistics
2. We don't want to create a process that will add cost or burden to small mod makers styfiling inovation and growth

But I do think we've absolutely got to self regulate in a more formal way:

1. Otherwise government will do it for us
2. Certification will create a new standard to which mods are designed, built and used.
3. New vapers will benefit grom a form of indirect guidance as to safe mods and
4. By extension vendors will have to educte (a good number do so already)
5. And then there is the issue of clones. They will continue but they will be seen for what they are copies, sometimes dangerous ones. I think serious modders would weclome them.
6. Finally, batteries; the primary reason for this thread. Ratings, standards, testing, etc.

 

[rhean]

I read some pages here, not all 60. What it comes down to are
1. Idiot user.
2. Unexpected failure
3. Uneducated user

Top two are not under our control.

Even with the very best education and advice, idiots will be idiots. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUkqIWtOf-4 posted here earlier is an example. That guy's comments are full of kind and unkind attempts at waking him up. People are clamoring to get him to remove the video. The video is still there, not because he was never told that what he's doing is dangerous, but because he's a stubborn idiot, who tosses a hot battery into a plastic bin full of paper, IN A BABY'S ROOM. There is nothing anyone can do about him, other than beg him to get back on analogues as a safer option.

Even with the very best education and advice, unlikely failure happens. This is not limited to mech mods. Egos, while charging, can catch on fire. Life is uncertain. All we can do is educate, yet realize that the world is not wholly under our control.

I'm very happy that this is not making the news.

 

[Ozwald]

I can't explain that myself -- but I've studied up, asked a lot of questions, and READ, on how to stay safe, what to look for, and what NOT to do, and since I never build coils below 1.5Ω, I think I'm pretty safe even with my total mathematical dunce-ness.

Show me a mathematical equation (especially one where the letters don't correspond to the represented word) and my eyes cross. Tell me, do this and that and the other thing if you want to keep your battery from exploding, I PAY ATTENTION!

Andria

R is pretty straight forward, Resistance.

Another word for voltage is Electromotive Force, EMF or.... E

I is the tricky one. Amps are named after a French mathematician, Andre-Marie Ampere. He published a paper called Intensity of Current. Well, in French, but the words are really similar - Intensiti de Current - or something like that. The I came from Intensiti.

ETA: Some people use V instead of E, but whenever I've taught it I like the E. For someone to remember it for the test, it's easy to remember to draw the triangle & put the letters in alphabetical order.

 

[AndriaD]

R is pretty straight forward, Resistance.

Another word for voltage is Electromotive Force, EMF or.... E

I is the tricky one. Amps are named after a French mathematician, Andre-Marie Ampere. He published a paper called Intensity of Current. Well, in French, but the words are really similar - Intensiti de Current - or something like that. The I came from Intensiti.

ETA: Some people use V instead of E, but whenever I've taught it I like the E. For someone to remember it for the test, it's easy to remember to draw the triangle & put the letters in alphabetical order.

Well I have read all this, of course; but my mind just does not retain things of this nature -- I can play Jeopardy with the best of 'em, but math? Complete ....... (I suspect this is part of my inability to retain any understanding of football.) If the letters corresponded to the actual words we use, I could retain it better, as a mnemonic, but with the letters having no instant correlation to the words, it just won't stick. So if I want to know a given figure in that equation, I just use my steam-engine calculator, supply the values I know, and let it figure out the others for me. I understand the *concepts* -- more or less -- just not the actual math. At my current age of 53, I doubt my grasp of math will ever improve; my brain grasps words and language almost instinctively, but numbers, equations... not so much. I'm really good at arithmetic and budgeting, though.

Andria

 

[Stubby]

Ok, so the point he is making is that people aren't giving out safety advice to new members, even though some already have experience with owning mechanical mods. Also those people who bought it from a B&M should have been given safety information by the employees and the user should be doing his or her own research before jumping in to anything. It is good to give safety advice when it is needed, I usually do most of the time with batteries and ohms law if needed. But, he said he read the new members section and the whole threads and said he didn't see a single word about safety then posted links to those threads he felt safety was failed to be mentioned, but didn't take the time to reply to any of the threads himself to advise safety, but claims it's the responsibility of people to automatically give out safety advice and warnings. Which is actually worse to not do something and blame other people.

It is certainly not my job to chase after every new user out there to give them a safety lesson. I wouldn't even want to try as I don't use mech's, or high watt regulated. The basic philosophy of the company that makes my device is "If you push the bottom your safe".
That was my solution, and the only real advice I could give someone I would feel secure with.

The point I was making is that we have created a culture (or at least a sub-culture) that pushes the extremes while claiming to have reached vaping nirvana. It is really trying to push the fringe, with its much higher risk factor, into the mainstream. The fact that this happened at a cloud contest is no small irony that appears to have gone over the heads of nearly everyone. The extremes are being pushed from the top down and the community has a lot of blame in this.

One of the basic problems with mech's is that the responsibility for safety is placed completely on the user. Most of the devices are designed for best case scenario. If you do everything right (and there is a long list of checks), you should be okay. In order to be called safe a device has to be designed for the worst case scenario. What happens with things go wrong (there is a long list). Very few people have the expertise, and time and patience to do mech's correctly.