Extended Cold Maceration ?

[PapawBrett]

I must state first that I am very new to this. In fact, I just set up my first 12 mason jars for a cold maceration in PG. Many of the Tobaccos I chosen (from P&C) are aromatics. I am far more interested in the finished product than how quickly I can have these ready. I have chosen PG as an extraction medium for ease of use, and because I am in recovery (22 years) and have no reason for keeping PGA or OEA around.
Has anyone ever tried an extended cold maceration, particularly with aromatic pipe tobaccos ? I am intending to let these sit until Mid- February, a thirteen week extraction of the "Stick it in the corner of the closet and leave it there" kind. I have read where several people have tried three and four week cold macerations with aromatics and were not particularly satisfied with the results, so I thought I'd try a longer extraction period. Maybe eight weeks, maybe twelve, who knows ? I don't...
Do you have any experience with extended cold maceration ?

 

[Str8vision]

I haven't much experience using aromatic tobaccos but have conducted many PG based room temperature (cold), extractions of non-aromatics allowing them to soak anywhere from 4 - 12 weeks. From my experience the longer they are allowed to soak the better the flavor gets. Some tobacco types (like cigars), require much longer soaks to achieve an adequate level of flavor. My last cold PG based extraction was started last march and is still soaking. Should be interesting to see what benefit (if any), such an extended soak offers.

 

[usr/]

I would recommend going with the longer steep time. My first extracts I steeped for about four weeks but found as I went along adding longer steep times seemed to produce more bold and flavorful extracts. Then I started doing heat assisted, 150 degrees from 24 to 48 hours and then 6 weeks minimum leaving some as long as 8 to 10 weeks on top of that. Over this past summer I took a break from the net's and started using Hangsen tobaccos concentrates along with Tobacco Absolutes because of their clean performance good taste and low maintenance on my gear. I was extremely busy this summer and couldn't keep up with maintenance using the net's. But after starting back on the Net's a couple months ago, I just can't vape them anymore. There's just no comparison, for me anyway. I had started 6 extracts back in March and kinda just abandoned them too. Month ago or so I broke into them just to see if they were even worth bothering with. I figured they would be going in the garbage! Turns out after a 6 month soak (steep) they seem to be fine, with no off odors or signs of spoiling or rotting, they actually smelled great. They seemed to be well preserved, actually. The tobacco did show just minor degradation (just looked overly soaked, but not mushy), and the PG seemed to have thinned somewhat from it's original viscosity, but they looked and filtered great. I did filter all of them down to 1.5 micron. They are super clear and clean. I have been mixing and blending them now for the past few weeks and they're just great. Have recently done my first Ethanol extract, but like you, recovering and 2 years sober I can't keep it around because it's not a wise thing to do. I had assistance with that. Anyway it's still in the freezer. Lol! As far as aromatics and English/Balkan Blends that have a Latakia presence I try and steer clear of. Not that I don't like Latakia, actually I love it but I hate it too, if that makes any sense. I love/hate the initial burned tires with a touch of sweetness flavor but love it when fades into smokey campfire, then I put it away, only to be drawn back to it at some point later. I don't want all my extracts to have that flavor. I have a couple of good heavy Latakia extracts, H&H 10 to Midnight and The Smoker Red Virginia Supreme (no longer available) that I use sparingly. Aromatics with flavors like Apple, Currant, Rums, Spice,etc. tends to remain and even intensify as the extract ages. I've been mostly extracting single blended/single varieties and blending those. But I think your brews will benefit from longer soak (steep) times. I know many here recommend higher percentages (15-20%, these levels can be brutal on your gear, but do taste good), when you start mixing I would also recommend mixing some of your blends on the lower side also, 5 to 8% range. You'll find you can detect different tones of flavor you may not get from heavier percentages. Just a thought. ymmv. Sorry to go long winded and good luck on your brews, they'll be great. That's gonna be a lot of juice. Let em age when they're done, they'll keep well.

 

[PapawBrett]

Thanks for all of the good advice, keep it coming !
Most of the tobaccos I have set up are flavored aromatics, such as Va/ Burley and Va/ Burley/ Cavendish that have 'high notes' like vanilla, cherry, or honey. I was thinking of the longer steep time to try and capture the nuances of these tobaccos.
I also have a couple English blends that are supposed to be lighter on the Latakia. Just to give that genre a try...

 

[yourgurnard]

I don't have the experience re. tobacco steeping that others on here have; & I've only soaked 1 aromatic...albeit for 'only' 6 weeks. The 'baccy was 'Kentucky Nougat'. I had limited concentrate from it (was only a 5g. baccy sample..) so made 2x10ml. of juice, one to vape (almost) straight away, & one left to age for a month. I found that the 'new' juice had far more pronounced flavour from the toppings, whereas the month-old one had the tobacco more forward...actually prefered the 'fresh' juice...simply 'cos it was more obviously an aromatic! YMMV....I'll deffo sample any other aromatics I do in future whilst still 'young' tho'!

 

[PapawBrett]

Let me see if I am reading this right ; You say that you 'steeped' (in maceration) for six weeks, then after filtration the 'fresh' extraction actually retained the 'high notes' better than the extract that was allowed to 'age' for a month. Is that about right ?
I've had similar results blending synthetics, where the flavorings are dominant for several weeks before the tobacco flavor rises to the front. Which is why I am willing to try an extended maceration period - in hopes that the high notes are retained somewhat after aging.
And, yes, I taking them out about once a day and gently roll them over once or twice. Just to keep anything from being 'stuck' to the bottom of the jar. And I tell myself "Makes no sense to rush this..."

 

[yourgurnard]

Dunno if My 'smoker-for-35+years-jaded-taste-buds' can distinguish top notes from bottom notes!...
But the toppings/flavourings that made the 'baccy an aromatic were def. to the front when I 1st sampled the mixed juice...& yes, I've found similar when experimenting with arti-flavours mixed with NET.

 

[PapawBrett]

You're not alone. 40 years of tobaccos did in my taste buds.
But thanks to vaping, I can taste Mamaw's cooking again. And I have an additional 40 lbs. to support that statement.

 

[Bagazo]

I found that the 'new' juice had far more pronounced flavour from the toppings, whereas the month-old one had the tobacco more forward...

Nothing scientific but could it be that the toppings, being applied at the end and allowed to dry out in a short amount of time, don't have time to "blend" into the tobacco mix.

Once you place it in a liquid mixture and let it sit they might mellow and turn into subtle complex flavors that allow the tobacco to come through.

 

[blobofblubber]

In the extracts ive done with pg, I find that after 10 weeks of soak u get diminishing returns on time vs flavor. Could just be me tho since im pretty impatient and my tastebuds sucks. Im sure ur extract is gonna be awesome

 

[yourgurnard]

You're not alone. 40 years of tobaccos did in my taste buds.
But thanks to vaping, I can taste Mamaw's cooking again. And I have an additional 40 lbs. to support that statement.

Tell Me about it!!!! My Step-Daughter gets married on Tuesday & I've had to buy a new suit!!....When I was a smoker, I could fit trousers that were older than Her!!!!

 

[PapawBrett]

In the extracts ive done with pg, I find that after 10 weeks of soak u get diminishing returns on time vs flavor. Could just be me tho since im pretty impatient and my tastebuds sucks. Im sure ur extract is gonna be awesome

Diminished returns or Higher Expectations ? Sorry, but you did mention Impatience....

 

[blobofblubber]

Diminished returns or Higher Expectations ? Sorry, but you did mention Impatience....

What i meant was After 10 weeks i found very little differnce / improvement in flavor. I ve gone up to half a year and there was mebe slightly better flavor compared to 10 wks. But again maybe its just me. Feel free to experiment. It could very well be different for you

 

[PapawBrett]

Oh, OK. After ten weeks there would be little change in the extract. Thanks for sharing that info.

 

[Bunnykiller]

give it 2 weeks and do a sample just a few drops on a clean dripper should give you some idea

 

[PapawBrett]

OK, just wanted to touch base here. Using glass drippers, I carefully pulled 15 drops of several extracts after 25 days. The idea is to make about 3ml of juice. For the record, I am using Reos VV Grands w/ RM2 RBA's with identical 2.2ohm coils and KGD Japanese cotton. Mixing at my preferred mix of 25/75 PG/VG @ 10mg nicotine, I have found out a couple of things;
1) Turn Down the Volume !!! These extracts, even at roughly 15%, are hitting harder than many of the Vendor e-liquids and almost all of the DIY flavors I have encountered in three and a half years of vaping.
2) Peter Stokkebyes English Luxury - (gag) A brutal and vivid reminder of why I avoided Latakia blends. Tastes like burnt soap. After final extraction I will likely let this one set for a month just to see if the other tobaccos in this blend rise to balance with the Latakia, but at this point it will mostly likely wind up being a "Give-Away".
3) Sutliff Vanilla Custard - VANILLA !!! and a very rich and pleasant vanilla at that. After extraction, aging may help this flavor balance out. Looking forward to this one.
4) Home & Hearth Louisiana Red. Smooth and rich. Now this I could get used to this, as is.
So far, my first extraction experiment seems to have the mixed results that I expected. Which is why I chose 12 different tobaccos. I expect some will be passed along while others are kept and enjoyed. These extractions are quite flavorful already, and I expect I will be mixing at a lower rate than some might. But one thing is for sure - my box of twelve Mason Jars have returned to the closet shelf for awhile longer.

 

[Bunnykiller]

some tobaccos result in some rather bitter tastes, others are heaven.... Ive had some that taste like hay.. very chlorophillish, some are down right bitter and worthy of the drain, and some that are pure bliss even tho my extraction methods are constant.
Its a matter of tobacco choice, I find Pipe blends are more flavorful than cigar or straight tobacco leaf blends.... learning can become expensive...

 

[67Tele]

4) Home & Hearth Louisiana Red. Smooth and rich. Now this I could get used to this, as is.

I filtered my Louisiana Red last weekend after about seven weeks in the jar and mixed up a 60ml (70PG/30VG 12mg nic and 25% flavor) loaded it up tonight. Same reaction as you. Very pleased with it! May need to sliver it down to 20% after it sits a little longer.

Thanks for the progress report.

 

[PapawBrett]

Using same method as before I took three more samples last night and loaded up the VV Grands this afternoon ;
1) Orlik Golden Sliced - Very smooth, very nice. There is a light vanilla top note, but the tobacco itself is a sweeter variety.
2) Russ' Monthly Apple Fritter - I guess they used "apple fritter" because the term "apple jacks" was already taken. Eerily similar to the child's cereal, aging might help the tobacco rise to the forefront. It is smooth and flavorful, though, just not what you would expect from a NET.
3) Sutliff's Dark Honey Berry - a smooth and mellow vape with a berry-like top note, followed by a vicious tongue-cutting, throat-piercing aftertaste. The initial flavor is quickly forgotten once the aftertaste sets in. No clue what causes the raw mouth-feel this selection leaves behind. Maybe aging will help. Maybe.
After 30 days there are some definite flavor profiles emerging here, not sure I like all of them. Following blobofblubber's advice (10 weeks), I will let these sit another six weeks before filtering them down and letting them age. I am sure my opinions will change on at least a few by then....

 

[PapawBrett]

I might be talking to myself here, but at least it's recorded for later comparison
Three more samples pulled last night, starting into them this morning;
1) Peter Stokkebye 84 Turkish - Should have been named "7-11" as it is more Virginia than Turkish. Mild and sweet, the Oriental is more of a top-note than part of a blend.
2) Scotty's Bulk Blends Trout Stream - a mixture of Cavendish, with a Butterscotch top-note.Very mild, and the butterscotch come first. Hopefully aging will balance this one out.
3) Lane 1-Q - very similar to Orlik Golden Slice. Light, sweet with a Vanilla top-note.
No 'gag reflex' with either of these three. All start off very mild and flavorful. Extended maceration combined with a good aging could produce the flavorful, mild-medium tobacco vapes I am searching for.