Extending 18650 Li on battery life...

[Susaz]

Most batts are rated for 300 charge cycles. That means full charge, but also a partial charge is a charge cycle. I tend to charge them fully, let them drain and then fully charge again, so that every single charge cycle counts.
As for PV with passthroughs, you are draining the battery you're freshly charging, but counts as a cycle. What really kills them is plugging and unplugging over and over for partial charges. Be sure to fully use them until the readout says "charge battery".
Same applies to cell phones, tablets and other things.

 

[zoiDman]

I get your point.. I get a full days worth of vaping from 1 charge on my purple efest. I will give @nyiddle suggestion a shot and see if i can get some increased longevity

If I can go a Full Day where I am away from a Charger on 1 Charge, I wouldn't be too concerned How Low I ran my Battery down. As long as I Didn't run it Below 3.2v.

But once I get home, then I would Charge the Battery.

Like I said, batteries (to Me) aren't that Expensive. So if I Shorten the "Lifespan" of the Battery from say 330 Charges to 300 Charges, I don't Freak Out.

What am I really Loosing when I shorten the Lifespan of a 9 Dollar Battery by 10%? 90 Cents. LOL

I'll pay the 90 Cents to Make my Life Easier Each and Every Day for 300 Days.

 

[Completely Average]

That's all WAY to .... for me.

In my 30W mod I've used a single 18650 battery that's USB charged for about 13 months now. I normally plug it in when the battery is around 50% drained and often leave it plugged in and use it while it's plugged in most of the day. After 13 months of daily use on this single battery I still do not notice any significant drop in performance or length of use between charges. Considering the price of batteries I'm willing to bet you're wasting more money by having 4-6 batteries in rotation and trying to "save" the battery as much as possible than you would using two batteries in rotation and replacing them when the performance degrades to the point where you're bothered by it.

 

[Mooch]

Most batts are rated for 300 charge cycles. That means full charge, but also a partial charge is a charge cycle. I tend to charge them fully, let them drain and then fully charge again, so that every single charge cycle counts.
As for PV with passthroughs, you are draining the battery you're freshly charging, but counts as a cycle. What really kills them is plugging and unplugging over and over for partial charges. Be sure to fully use them until the readout says "charge battery".
Same applies to cell phones, tablets and other things.

Actually, a "cycle" is defined as a charge and discharge equal to the nominal capacity rating of the cell. If you discharge to 50% of the cell's capacity and then recharge you would have to do that (roughly) twice in order for that to equal one cycle. There are innefficiencies involved and you can't extend out the concept to something crazy like ten discharges to 90% (and recharging after each) equals one cycle. But the concept works.

It ties in closely wih the other good advice here to limit the depth of discharge and degree of charge (without getting crazy about it) to extend cell cycle life. This is essentially limiting the impact of each discharge/charge sequence you do on the number of cycles that the cell has to offer before the capacity drops, and internal resistance rises, too far to be useful anymore.

I agree though others here though. We might be able to double the life of our cells, but at what cost in terms of inconvenience and our sanity? Don't let the cell voltage drop too far too often, don't heat up the cell too often, and don't store it fully charged all the time and you'll keep the cell healthy for a long time. And you'll enjoy your vaping more too.

 

[Susaz]

Actually, a "cycle" is defined as a charge and discharge equal to the nominal capacity rating of the cell. If you discharge to 50% of the cell's capacity and then recharge you would have to do that (roughly) twice in order for that to equal one cycle. There are innefficiencies involved and you can't extend out the concept to something crazy like ten discharges to 90% (and recharging after each) equals one cycle. But the concept works.

It ties in closely wih the other good advice here to limit the depth of discharge and degree of charge (without getting crazy about it) to extend cell cycle life. This is essentially limiting the impact of each discharge/charge sequence you do on the number of cycles that the cell has to offer before the capacity drops, and internal resistance rises, too far to be useful anymore.

I agree though others here though. We might be able to double the life of our cells, but at what cost in terms of inconvenience and our sanity? Don't let the cell voltage drop too far too often, don't heat up the cell too often, and don't store it fully charged all the time and you'll keep the cell healthy for a long time. And you'll enjoy your vaping more too.

A cycle is a cycle is a cycle, being a 1 minute or a 4 hour charge. Period. Overheating sometimes happens during charging, and when you notice you pull it out, let it cool down and plug it again. My iStick is sometimes warm, because it charges at 1A, but the charge regulator seems to be working ok.

 

[Mooch]

A cycle is a cycle is a cycle, being a 1 minute or a 4 hour charge. Period. Overheating sometimes happens during charging, and when you notice you pull it out, let it cool down and plug it again. My iStick is sometimes warm, because it charges at 1A, but the charge regulator seems to be working ok.

Exactly, it doesn't matter how fast or slow you do the charge/discharge (to a point), it's all about how much capacity gets moved in or out...all at once or "in pieces". Good advice for charging!

For those who want more info on cycle life...
Battery Life and How To Improve It

How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

Battery Discharge Methods – Battery University

Charge cycle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Vaping in NYC]

K, so let's say I buy 4 x sony VTC 3 or 4 and only use two for a few months or unt they die out .. If I never charge the other two until I need them they will still be good right? Cuz there's no way to know how long they been sitting on a shelf at the stores?

 

[nyiddle]

K, so let's say I buy 4 x sony VTC 3 or 4 and only use two for a few months or unt they die out .. If I never charge the other two until I need them they will still be good right? Cuz there's no way to know how long they been sitting on a shelf at the stores?

As far as I know, assuming they're not in use, most Lithium cells will last an exceedingly long time on the shelves. I could be wrong.

I remember reading about some dude who bought up like 50 VTC5's right before the shortage, and he had intentions of using about 4 per year, saving the rest for years to come. It'd be kinda silly if that was all for naught.

 

[Completely Average]

A cycle is a cycle is a cycle, being a 1 minute or a 4 hour charge. Period.

So what you're saying is this...

I have my battery charging via USB cable. If I take even a single puff that draws some of the current out and the USB charger immediately recharges the battery back to full. You believe that to be a full cycle.


Then I must have some world-record setting batteries, because I take 15-20 puffs per hour, with the mod connected via USB charging cable for 9 hours a day, 5 days a week. I've had the same battery for over 13 months now. Even if we remove weekends and a few extra days and are conservative and average 15 puffs per hour that works out to my batteries having lasted through more than 33,750 charging cycles. Surely that's a world's record.

 

[birdsloper]

Exactly, it doesn't matter how fast or slow you do the charge/discharge (to a point), it's all about how much capacity gets moved in or out...all at once or "in pieces". Good advice for charging!

For those who want more info on cycle life...
Battery Life and How To Improve It

How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

Battery Discharge Methods – Battery University

Charge cycle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm afraid this is not exactly true. Charging or discharging outside the recommended " C" rating of any lithium formulas in 18650 form will damage them internally. That's a fact. In the interest of extending the life of the batteries, look at the stored charge you receive brand new batteries in. About 3.8-3.85 is where the manufacturer stores and ships them, that's where they should be stored for best results. Do I do this myself? No I'm like everyone else, I run them down, charge them and throw em right back into my mod n puff away. I feel comfortable doing this because I purchase genuine batteries with realistic, honest ratings. I have abused many of these batteries under controlled conditions, from different manufacturers and I am familiar with the limits each one has. Not using the discipline to follow strict guidelines, I give up a small percentage of capacity. I'm OK with that. I have an abnormal amount of these batteries on hand though, I most likely will lose or replace them long before they get close to lifetime cycles.

 

[Alien Traveler]

A cycle is a cycle is a cycle, being a 1 minute or a 4 hour charge. Period.

Please, no periods. And (I am sorry to say it) you are wrong.
Charging to 4.1V (not to standard 4.2V) doubles cycle count.
I you want to get the max amount of electrical power from you battery during its lifetime, the best strategy is to stop charging before it is full and stop using before it is empty (or before you mod cut it off).

Path through vaping may decrease slightly battery lifespan, but convenience overweights it.

 

[philoshop]

Don't overcharge or over-discharge and don't let them get hot, either through hard charging or sitting on the dashboard of your car in the summer. Those are the three big no-nos with lithium cells. Allowing them to 'rest' for a bit between the discharge/charge/discharge cycle of use is a good idea as well. Buy several and rotate their usage.
Most of my battery experience is with power tools that I use daily, and with R/C airplanes. In both cases battery packs are typically over $100 a pop, so I've learned how to take care of them. A $10 vaping battery used in rotation with others should last well over a year given minimal care and thought. That equates to less than 3 cents a day without really working at it.

 

[philoshop]

Yeah... We should probably use the phrase "Battery Life" to describe the time needed between Charges.

And "Battery Lifespan" to describe how long a Battery lasts before you need to Replace it.

In the R/C world we use "charge life" and "battery life".
When the charge life starts to fall off the battery life is nearing it's end.

 

[Mooch]

In the engineering world we use "cycle life" and "runtime" (or "run time").
I like that they don't share any of the same words...more differentiation between the terms.

But I think any of these sets of terms can be used.

 

[zoiDman]

In the R/C world we use "charge life" and "battery life".
When the charge life starts to fall off the battery life is nearing it's end.

That is a Good Way to describe what a person is Trying say.

A Lot Less confusion.

 

[Susaz]

So what you're saying is this...

I have my battery charging via USB cable. If I take even a single puff that draws some of the current out and the USB charger immediately recharges the battery back to full. You believe that to be a full cycle.


Then I must have some world-record setting batteries, because I take 15-20 puffs per hour, with the mod connected via USB charging cable for 9 hours a day, 5 days a week. I've had the same battery for over 13 months now. Even if we remove weekends and a few extra days and are conservative and average 15 puffs per hour that works out to my batteries having lasted through more than 33,750 charging cycles. Surely that's a world's record.

No. Charge cycle refers when current goes throught the battery. If you vape on it while plugged you're extending the charging time, but although it drains it goes right back. Opposed to the chemical reaction of a fully charged battery without current giving the charge back. That counts as a discharge cycle

 

[Susaz]

Please, no periods. And (I am sorry to say it) you are wrong.
Charging to 4.1V (not to standard 4.2V) doubles cycle count.
I you want to get the max amount of electrical power from you battery during its lifetime, the best strategy is to stop charging before it is full and stop using before it is empty (or before you mod cut it off).

Path through vaping may decrease slightly battery lifespan, but convenience overweights it.

Your wish. My experience. Your opinions are your own.

 

[Alien Traveler]

Your wish. My experience. Your opinions are your own.

Again you are wrong. It is not "my opinions", it is opinion of BatteryUniversity.
Can you supply any evidence that your experience is more reliable? (rhetorical question)

 

[sonicbomb]

A charge cycle means using all of the battery’s power, but that doesn’'t necessarily mean from a single charge. For instance, you could use half of a battery's charge, and then recharge it fully. If you did the same thing the next day, it would count as one charge cycle, not two.
So a cycle could be draining the battery all the way and recharging, or draining/recharging it 25% four times, or draining/recharging 10% ten times, etc.

Stolen and slightly edited from an article of Macbook Pro batteries which I believe are Lithium Ion, though probably not the exact same chemistry as a VTC4 for instance. But I would imagine the same logic applies.

 

[carl cipriano]

How can you tell when their at 4.1 V, does your charger display volts.My charger Xtar and a Nitecore do not display volts, only read when they are fully charged. My Xtar will let me choose low amp chargeing, which is what I choose, but I would have to sit ther with my fluke meter on it for monitoring of the voltage and pull them out when reading 4.1. Not going to do that.Have 3 Batteries I bouaght 2 years ago with Provari and are still going strong. just dont let them go down below 3.5-3.7 volts. What charger do you have, I would like to have a charger that shuts down at a certain voltage if that would really be beneficial, although cost of batteries versus charger upgrade might need to be considered.

Both my Tesla mod and my Vamo have a feature which allows me to check the voltage of the battery in use - my Nitecore UM10 Intellicharger does not - it only indicates the % of charge - I am pretty sure that the Nitecore UM10 (or mine, at any rate) does not charge an 18650 cell past 4.15 or so Volts - there has only ever been one time when I read 4.2V on a newly charged battery from my charger - and this is fine with me - lately I have been noticing that my batteries are beginning to go down from 4.1 to 3.9V much quicker than they used tto, and I think that is an indication of ageing......