Thanks guys, I ordered a boatload from Pure Vapes today but they did not have it. Yes, I am trying to come up with some good caramel /toffee tobacco and RY types, sounds like it might be what I am looking for. Jeff I do use the TW Ruyan 5 but find it a flowery, it has been sitting for a month or so maybe go back and see if it improved. None of the red label TW stuff came out good for me all has a perfumey thing about them, is the black label any better?