FatDaddy BF Attachment Kit and BF Pins

[WharfRat1976]

Is anyone using these with the longer 510 connectors- the "wood box" longer 510's?

I assume the BF pin sits in the bottom of the 510 then the attachment BF needle goes through the BF pin into your bottle with tubing attached.

My question is how can the needle, which is loosely fitted inside the BF pin make solid contact with the bottom of your atty? I also put the white o-ring that comes with the BF attachment kit under the needle to make a snug fit with the atty.

If you solder the positive to the side of the BF pin, will it make a good connection with the loosely fitted needle inside of it?

Anyone working with these components?

Thank you.

 

[turbocad6]

I ordered some of these last week and hope to have them real soon. I'm expecting to have to do some kind of custom work to it but I like the idea of a hypo needle type post... I also ordered some length of 10 ga hypo needle material from amazon to see what can be built from that. I know some of the guys in the printed dna bottom feed thread have used these and there not perfect as they come now... I think some guys have found that a 2mm washer slipped over the end of the needle was enough to have the needle sit on top of the oring and seal... I'm hoping something with these hypo needles may be a better alternative to trying to drill out a long thin hole in SS screws... you can prolly find some info on these in that dna30 printed bottomfeeder thread I'm sure and I'll update here when I get my hands on the newest fatdaddy 510's

 

[gdeal]

I posted this up in a different thread but thought I would repost here in case it helps.

I had an issue with the silicon o-ring popping out from underneath the flange of inner ss hypotube. So I added a small washer there. It secured the oring.

The SS tube is .2mm smaller in diameter that brass connector, so solid contact is a wild card. I added a small brass compression brass fitting that you can solder to and ensure that good contact is made. (Its nickel coated in the pic) This set-up also allows for the self adjusting mechanism to work and still maintain a leak free set-up. I havent done it in the longer "classic" version yet, but I am not sure if the new delrin will sit high enough inside the older version 510. You could add some height with some additional o-rings (or custom size delrin) under the flange if needed.

 

[turbocad6]

well I got my new fatdaddy 510's today. I'm not really sure how he intends these things to be put together but out of the package I don't see them working as-is. if you replace the "pin" with the needle it won't work because the head will be too low, the head of the pin is too small, the o rings included don't seal against the needle... I don't see how he intends this to go together and not leak. I'm going to take them home with me tonight and play with them to see what I can see but as of now I don't see how these are even intended to be used out of the package. I can see what gdeal did and why that works but I don't get how these are intended to work as-is

 

[turbocad6]

well I came up with a way to make these 510 connectors work great. I came up with a few different alternatives but the best one required me to drill out the plastic insulator to 3/16". was easy to do little by little with the drill bit by hand with no drill, I then inserted a 3/16" OD silicone hose into the barrel of the plastic insulator bottomed to the bottom stop. this silicone bushing is all that's needed, get the length right and just slip the needle in. the silicone has enough give that it allows the head of the needle to sit high enough to contact an atty before it is fully seated and allow the needle to compress and let any atty sit flush and absorb any discrepancies in length from different atties.

the silicone bushing is substantial and there is no chance of leaking as it's a snug enough fit to the outer wall of the insulator drilled to 3/16" and the 1/16" ID is perfect for the needle to slide through with just enough resistance that it can move yet is fully sealed too. I lubed it with vg as I assembled it and it works perfect, should be perfect and durable

I had this hose because this is the hose I use in all my bottom feeder builds as my feed tubes, it's also great to make soft insulators from. what I did was make the main silicone insert be slightly shorter than protruding from the top of the plastic insulator and then cut another small ring to use on the needle to bring it to final length... this allows me to insert the needle and check final adjustment that I can fine tune by simply removing the ring and making the final ring fatter or thinner until i get the right thickness that it works on several atties. once you trim it right it should work on all of your atties

heres a few pics

this is approx how high the final results will be, actually it's slightly less than this but to fine tune the length to perfect without having to keep removing and installing the main insert of this tube I cut it short of this and then add a ring that can be fine tuned easily as it will just slip in and out easily with the needle

cut short of the top so it has room to give for the separate adjusting ring

this is the size ring that works for me with the main insert cut as shown above

this thing will now make great contact with all my atties yet still let all my atties sit completely flush too and def no chance of leaks


this is the hose I used... this is enough to do well over 100 of these but it is good to have as feed tube hose and for insulators and stuff too. I use this hose all the time for insulating as well as feeding

White SiliconeTubing, 1/16"ID, 3/16"OD, 1/16" Wall, 10' Length: Industrial Rubber Tubing: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

 

[WharfRat1976]

Great posts and ingenuity. Here are pics of my components.

This is the assembly I came up with using the "box mod" 510, the longer one. Does the compression ring crimp the needle to the BF pin? Does it reduce the diameters?

The needle sitting ontop of the supplied o-ring. The head of the needle is not touching the top of the BF pin so too much voltage drop. FatDaddy says the o-ring will create a snug fit for the atty but the power loss will suck. Maybe when the atty is screwed down the head of the needle will contact the top of the BF pin??

Here are the pins I received. The longer flanged non BF pin is on the bottom. The shorter flanged BF pin is on the top. I thought I had ordered the 3mm longer BF pins, apparently not. I asked FatDaddy on his Facebook page and he responded the longer pins are not available yet but will be shortly. I am a little confused as the BF pin I received seems to work with the longer 510...???

Here is the pin without the o-ring. It seats just under the top of the Delrin. The problem is it will not make contact with an atty. I assume the longer BF pins will protrude higher and create contact with the atty using the o-ring.

This shows how the needle will seat below the Delrin...

I was thinking of just soldering the positive lead to the needle AND the BF pin in one clean joint. In this way nothing will move and I will assure contact between the pin and the needle. The compression device makes sense. Drilling out the Delrin is most likely too advanced for me but it does look very clean.

I will wait to buy the "longer" BF pins that FatDaddy mentioned in his response to me on his FB page.

 

[WharfRat1976]

well I came up with a way to make these 510 connectors work great. I came up with a few different alternatives but the best one required me to drill out the plastic insulator to 3/16". was easy to do little by little with the drill bit by hand with no drill, I then inserted a 3/16" OD silicone hose into the barrel of the plastic insulator bottomed to the bottom stop. this silicone bushing is all that's needed, get the length right and just slip the needle in. the silicone has enough give that it allows the head of the needle to sit high enough to contact an atty before it is fully seated and allow the needle to compress and let any atty sit flush and absorb any discrepancies in length from different atties.

the silicone bushing is substantial and there is no chance of leaking as it's a snug enough fit to the outer wall of the insulator drilled to 3/16" and the 1/16" ID is perfect for the needle to slide through with just enough resistance that it can move yet is fully sealed too. I lubed it with vg as I assembled it and it works perfect, should be perfect and durable

I had this hose because this is the hose I use in all my bottom feeder builds as my feed tubes, it's also great to make soft insulators from. what I did was make the main silicone insert be slightly shorter than protruding from the top of the plastic insulator and then cut another small ring to use on the needle to bring it to final length... this allows me to insert the needle and check final adjustment that I can fine tune by simply removing the ring and making the final ring fatter or thinner until i get the right thickness that it works on several atties. once you trim it right it should work on all of your atties

heres a few pics

this is approx how high the final results will be, actually it's slightly less than this but to fine tune the length to perfect without having to keep removing and installing the main insert of this tube I cut it short of this and then add a ring that can be fine tuned easily as it will just slip in and out easily with the needle

cut short of the top so it has room to give for the separate adjusting ring

this is the size ring that works for me with the main insert cut as shown above

this thing will now make great contact with all my atties yet still let all my atties sit completely flush too and def no chance of leaks


this is the hose I used... this is enough to do well over 100 of these but it is good to have as feed tube hose and for insulators and stuff too. I use this hose all the time for insulating as well as feeding

White SiliconeTubing, 1/16"ID, 3/16"OD, 1/16" Wall, 10' Length: Industrial Rubber Tubing: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Where will you solder your positive connection to? Without a pin you cannot connect to your atty---unless I am missing something. I love your setup though.

 

[turbocad6]

those pins are no longer used, the needle replaces the pins.

the way you have it with the silicone washer under the needle head will kind of work but if you tighten it down too much the silicone o ring will roll over the head of the pin causing it to drop, leak and no longer make contact, that's why gdeal used a small washer to broaden the flange a bit, only thing is like that most atties won't be able to sit completely flush

"I was thinking of just soldering the positive lead to the needle AND the BF pin in one clean joint."

that's not going to work, you'll need so much heat that you'll melt the delrin threaded part for sure, you only need to attach the wire to the needle. you can use something along the lines of what gdeal did with his little locking collar or it should be possible to solder the wire directly to the needle too, although it might be a little tricky it should be doable. I plan to make a collar similar to what gdeal used

drilling this thing is easy, you don't actually have to drill it, all you have to do is ream it out with a 3/16" bit by hand, just keep reaming it till the bit slides through, all your doing is increasing the size of the bore up one size to 3/16". if your really opposed to reaming the hole then my silicone tube will still work, all you need then is a small sliver, about equal to the size of that included silicone o ring, but the hose hole is small enough to seal to the needle and not require a washer... actually what I would do is replace the lower spring with a section of this hose and then use a ring of it as a washer up top, almost as good as what I've done by packing the whole length if you don't want to "drill"

 

[WharfRat1976]

those pins are no longer used, the needle replaces the pins.

the way you have it with the silicone washer under the needle head will kind of work but if you tighten it down too much the silicone o ring will roll over the head of the pin causing it to drop, leak and no longer make contact, that's why gdeal used a small washer to broaden the flange a bit, only thing is like that most atties won't be able to sit completely flush

"I was thinking of just soldering the positive lead to the needle AND the BF pin in one clean joint."

that's not going to work, you'll need so much heat that you'll melt the delrin threaded part for sure, you only need to attach the wire to the needle. you can use something along the lines of what gdeal did with his little locking collar or it should be possible to solder the wire directly to the needle too, although it might be a little tricky it should be doable. I plan to make a collar similar to what gdeal used

drilling this thing is easy, you don't actually have to drill it, all you have to do is ream it out with a 3/16" bit by hand, just keep reaming it till the bit slides through, all your doing is increasing the size of the bore up one size to 3/16". if your really opposed to reaming the hole then my silicone tube will still work, all you need then is a small sliver, about equal to the size of that included silicone o ring, but the hose hole is small enough to seal to the needle and not require a washer... actually what I would do is replace the lower spring with a section of this hose and then use a ring of it as a washer up top, almost as good as what I've done by packing the whole length if you don't want to "drill"

Thanks Turbo. So you will leave a section of your needle, inside your mod, free of tubing to do your connection? EDIT: I see, you cut the tubing off below the 510---got it...

I totally understand how you essentially reamed out the Delrin insert. I just need to get the tubing now.

If the flanged side of the BF pin was longer and protruded into the 510 farther, I think my setup will work just fine. The needle would then make perfect contact with the top of the BF pin. Not using the pin altogether like you suggest is one less part and less voltage drop for sure.

I can't believe this vendor sells this stuff and it completely does not work w/o modification. Pretty poor all around imho...

 

[WharfRat1976]

So Turbo, you are using a piece of tubing to raise up needle into the 510 connector? Very cool. That thing should not leak at all.

Also, is there any chance of the tubing melting anywhere??

 

[turbocad6]

yes wire will be attached directly to the needle, needle gives power directly to the atty. yeah the silicone holds the head of the needle up, then the seat pressure will be pretty high with an atty fully seated so it will make a good connection no problem and no way it could leak, the silicone won't leak like this even before it is compressed with an atty attached, once the atty is tightened then it'll be even more compressed, probably hold +100 psi without leaking with an atty screwed down onto it


silicone is much more heat resistant than the delrin even, won't be an issue with heat

heres a cross section of what I did and the alternative that doesn't require drilling

 

[WharfRat1976]

Turbo, thanks for the drawing. 3/16th is a beast of a bit. I hand reamed it and worked out fine. The Delrin wants to contort when its thinner so screwing it back in was a challenge but it worked out well. I bought the 10' of hoze off Amazon so thanks for that as well.

Will the needle conduct the power well? Who knows what that metal is. It will have to do at this point.

Can you post a pick of your bottle top setup? A 3/16th hole into a 6ml bottle top should be interesting. I like the overall setup. It's simple and easy with fewer parts. Here is a diagram that FatDaddy put up on FB explaining this. He has the needle going through the BF pin. I guess it diagrams the shorter flanged BF pin.

 

[asdaq]

Medical grade needles conduct fine. 304 stainless iirc, and there is quite a bit of material to it so you make up for the type of material loss. I use 16g and 18g sizes in my atties quite happily for a long time.

 

[turbocad6]

Turbo, thanks for the drawing. 3/16th is a beast of a bit. I hand reamed it and worked out fine. The Delrin wants to contort when its thinner so screwing it back in was a challenge but it worked out well. I bought the 10' of hoze off Amazon so thanks for that as well.

Will the needle conduct the power well? Who knows what that metal is. It will have to do at this point.

Can you post a pick of your bottle top setup? A 3/16th hole into a 6ml bottle top should be interesting. I like the overall setup. It's simple and easy with fewer parts. Here is a diagram that FatDaddy put up on FB explaining this. He has the needle going through the BF pin. I guess it diagrams the shorter flanged BF pin.
View attachment 379716

haven't responded sooner because I haven't put the one I made into service yet, still haven't but I'll update here when I do. that pic looks interesting I guess, only thing is a bored out center pin like shown is not even included in this kit and even if it was, that diagram looks like a definite leaker to me anyway, don't see that working too well not to mention when an atty is tightened down on it it may still allow that oring to roll over the top of the pin.

the way I did it will conduct fine as long as the wire connection to the needle is sound. I'll probably install that one this weekend and see

 

[WharfRat1976]

Thanks Turbo. I got the tubing and did your modification to the Delrin insert and worked perfectly. The feed needle IS running through my switch terminal and held there by the set screw. I think it will squonk great and no leaks. I left a bit more tubing into the 510 connector so no need for an additional o ring of tubing there and my atty mounts flush to the 510. Can you verify the rest of my wiring connecs? Thanks for all your help.

 

[TruckerMSA]

Thanks Turbo. I got the tubing and did your modification to the Delrin insert and worked perfectly. The feed needle IS running through my switch terminal and held there by the set screw. I think it will squonk great and no leaks. I left a bit more tubing into the 510 connector so no need for an additional o ring of tubing there and my atty mounts flush to the 510. Can you verify the rest of my wiring connecs? Thanks for all your help.

Are you making a regulated device or a switched mechanical?


Sent from the Truck O Shop

 

[TruckerMSA]

Are you making a regulated device or a switched mechanical?


Sent from the Truck O Shop

NVM, won't work on a regulated device.


Sent from the Truck O Shop

 

[turbocad6]

the problem I see with clamping the pin to the switch like that is the pin should be kinda floating so it can go up and down slightly for different atties... locking it to the box by way of the switch might restrict that movement but you have it in front of you to see more than I do, maybe it has enough give to still allow the slight compression? otherwise I would worry that you might have to loosen the screw clamping the needle to allow an adjustment for a different atty. if your the kind of guy who's going to just lock one atty down and not keep switching back and forth that looks like a really nice setup but it looks like your loosing the spring loadedness like that I think

when you say "verify the rest of your wiring connects" are you asking how to wire up what you've shown there? assuming you are then the positive from the battery should go to the opposite leg of the switch and the ground can be either a wire from the battery ground to the base washer of the 510 where it connects to the box or if it's a metal box then you could just clean the inside of the box to bare metal where the 510 bolts, then you could just ground the battery negative to the box and the box itself will complete the circuit too. if you want to be all politically correct and safety conscious you could use a fuse in one of these circuits, either the ground or positive circuit

 

[WharfRat1976]

the problem I see with clamping the pin to the switch like that is the pin should be kinda floating so it can go up and down slightly for different atties... locking it to the box by way of the switch might restrict that movement but you have it in front of you to see more than I do, maybe it has enough give to still allow the slight compression? otherwise I would worry that you might have to loosen the screw clamping the needle to allow an adjustment for a different atty. if your the kind of guy who's going to just lock one atty down and not keep switching back and forth that looks like a really nice setup but it looks like your loosing the spring loadedness like that I think

when you say "verify the rest of your wiring connects" are you asking how to wire up what you've shown there? assuming you are then the positive from the battery should go to the opposite leg of the switch and the ground can be either a wire from the battery ground to the base washer of the 510 where it connects to the box or if it's a metal box then you could just clean the inside of the box to bare metal where the 510 bolts, then you could just ground the battery negative to the box and the box itself will complete the circuit too. if you want to be all politically correct and safety conscious you could use a fuse in one of these circuits, either the ground or positive circuit

I am not an atty switcher but good advice on the pin. Thanks for the wiring confirmation and yes I am going to install a 10 or 15 amp fuse.
Thanks again Turbo.

 

[WharfRat1976]

Here is FD's new posting for his wood box BF Pins. This is the illustration guide. This is if you want to put a needle through these pins.

http://fatdaddyvapes.com/eBay/Photos/510Guide.pdf