FDA FDA deeming regulation proposals

[Jman8]

Yes, this absolutely is the intended endgame. The small and mid-sized vendors are to be crushed under the financial burden of the FDA application process, after which the few remaining larger vendors will be saddled with sufficient debt that they can be bought up by BT at bargain-basement prices. With the entire industry consolidated under the control of three or four tobacco giants, tax hikes and price increases are applied until there is no longer a monetary incentive to switch from smoking to vaping. A few years later, citing declining sales numbers, the tobacco companies start quietly discontinuing production of all remaining e-cig products.

If we don't succeed in turning the tide of public opinion, this is exactly how the whole scenario is going to play out. It's not alarmism and it's not overreaction; it's just the truth.

I feel quite comfortable having a wager on this "truth." I predict it doesn't happen this way. I predict it won't even get to the bolded point and willing to bet on that as well. I realize wager is entirely unlikely, but just seems to not be truth from where I'm sitting.

Sorry for not falling in line with the naysayers, but seems to me at this moment as likely as offhand chance that FDA will say, 'ya know what? We decided to not ban sales to minors.'

 

[Devonmoonshire]

Well with the release of Nicotrol (nicotine inhaler) you can bet they got the idea about putting, or trying to put, e-cig vendors out of business. "Oh look here what we got..an e-cig act-a-like" No more need for e-cigs everyone!" blech
I wouldn't use one if they were the last resort. BP money grabbing dog farts!

Yeah man I got a few "Packs" of disposables I would rather use that only last 45 puffs than use one of their Nicotrol inhalers again, them things are foul LOL

They've already scored a great propaganda victory by convincing a large segment of the public at large that "unregulated" is a synonym for "dangerous and probably deadly." Millions of people now believe, quite fervently, that a consumer product can't possibly be safe unless it's subject to federal oversight. Worse yet, they also believe the FDA is a benevolent, well-intentioned agency that genuinely cares about promoting and improving public health, when in fact that couldn't be farther from the truth.

Exactly, which is My it is Imperative that we bring that stigma to an end. Show up on TV show Up in Masses and dispel those lame, False misinformed Myths!

 

[Devonmoonshire]

I feel quite comfortable having a wager on this "truth." I predict it doesn't happen this way. I predict it won't even get to the bolded point and willing to bet on that as well. I realize wager is entirely unlikely, but just seems to not be truth from where I'm sitting.

Sorry for not falling in line with the naysayers, but seems to me at this moment as likely as offhand chance that FDA will say, 'ya know what? We decided to not ban sales to minors.'

That would not surprise me in the least considering that is precisely what they should NOT do.

Does the FDA EVER do anything right? Answer: NO!

Does the FDA Approve anything that can possibly Kill Us Off??? Answer: YES!

Does the FDA Give Two Sheetz About Our Health??? Answer: No!


These are the top three reasons that the FDA Should Be Shut Down and Reorganized under New Leadership and force that Worthless Worm Mitch Zeller into the poor house by Robbing him of any and all posibilities of having any job anywhere in the Government. Make his sorry carcass work at a dung house! Making less than Minimum Wage with Zero Health Care benefits at all

 

[Stosh]

Under
 the
 Small 
Business 
Regulatory 
Enforcement
 Fairness
 Act 
(also 
known 
as 
the Congressional 
Review
 Act), new
 final 
rules 
must 
be
 sent 
to 
Congress and 
the 
Government Accountability 
Office for 
review 
before 
they 
can 
take 
effect.
[...]
If
 the
 House 
and 
Senate 
pass 
a 
resolution
 of 
disapproval 
and 
the 
President
 signs 
it 
(or 
if 
both houses
 override 
a 
presidential
 veto),
the
rule
 becomes 
void From: http://www.federalregister.gov/uploa...ng_process.pdf

This supports why it would be good to take it to Congress.

Considering in it's history no resolutions have been successfully passed for any rule any agency has passed out of tens of thousands. But we can get 67% of congress and the senate to override the presidential veto, when at present they can't even reach agreement that the sun rises in the east.....

Does the FDA pay you to post the rose colored glass walls of text?
Your very first post ever on ECF was a wall of text how the FDA was our friend.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/law-e-cigarette/370074-ecigs-have-been-banned.html#post8330070

 

[Jman8]

Does the FDA pay you to post the rose colored glass walls of text?
Your very first post ever on ECF was a wall of text how the FDA was our friend.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/law-e-cigarette/370074-ecigs-have-been-banned.html#post8330070

Nope. Not a shill for anyone, and just calling things like I see them going.

Never called FDA a "friend." The final paragraph in my first post from Jan. 2013 stands.

I am mostly just asking for links to whatever online resources are freely available to the public and that convey, in no uncertain terms, this notion that eCigs and eCig related products are soon to be banned (by the FDA). Thank you for whatever assistance you may provide on that request.

 

[Nate760]

I feel quite comfortable having a wager on this "truth." I predict it doesn't happen this way. I predict it won't even get to the bolded point and willing to bet on that as well. I realize wager is entirely unlikely, but just seems to not be truth from where I'm sitting.

So you don't think FDA, BT, and BP are collectively fantasizing about a best-case scenario in which their respective cartels are no longer threatened by free-market competition and they enjoy a free hand to do whatever they want with the e-cig industry?

 

[Jman8]

So you don't think FDA, BT, and BP are collectively fantasizing about a best-case scenario in which their respective cartels are no longer threatened by free-market competition and they enjoy a free hand to do whatever they want with the e-cig industry?

I think they may be fantasizing about what you say. Perhaps in cahoots to do just this. If they are pushing this, investing money in this sort of outcome whereby eCigs will be allegedly regulated out of existence, they will lose.

Badly.

 

[Nate760]

I think they may be fantasizing about what you say. Perhaps in cahoots to do just this. If they are pushing this, investing money in this sort of outcome whereby eCigs will be allegedly regulated out of existence, they will lose.

Badly.

To clarify, I'm not saying this is a guaranteed eventuality, or even the most likely eventuality. I'm saying it's the ideal outcome from the perspective of the forces arrayed against us, and it could very well come to pass if we don't exercise due vigilance in preventing it.

 

[Jman8]

To clarify, I'm not saying this is a guaranteed eventuality, or even the most likely eventuality. I'm saying it's the ideal outcome from the perspective of the forces arrayed against us, and it could very well come to pass if we don't exercise due vigilance in preventing it.

I strongly suggest exercising due vigilance in preventing such a scenario.

IMO, due vigilance is a given. Serious vapers aren't taking any of this lying down.

 

[Stosh]

The final paragraph in my first post from Jan. 2013 stands

I am mostly just asking for links to whatever online resources are freely available to the public and that convey, in no uncertain terms, this notion that eCigs and eCig related products are soon to be banned (by the FDA). Thank you for whatever assistance you may provide on that request.

.

http://www.ofr.gov/OFRUpload/OFRData/2014-09491_PI.pdf

 

[Katya]

I think they may be fantasizing about what you say. Perhaps in cahoots to do just this. If they are pushing this, investing money in this sort of outcome whereby eCigs will be allegedly regulated out of existence, they will lose.

Badly.

Nobody's saying that they will be regulated out of existence. But they may become so expensive and difficult to obtain that people will be unable/unwilling (same result) to acquire them. That's what PACT did to Swedish snus. Very few people are willing to pay $30 for shipping and then be home (or drive to pick up their package) when they can get crappy BT Camel snus at every gas station.

Don't you see it???? They don't need to ban--they just need to make it impractical or unaffordable for most people. BT wins--their stuff again is affordable and widely available--both cigarettes and e-cigarettes. What's not to like?

 

[Jman8]

http://www.ofr.gov/OFRUpload/OFRData/2014-09491_PI.pdf

Waiting on that citation.

 

[Jman8]

Nobody's saying that they will be regulated out of existence.

Oh, I'm fairly certain I can find that wording (in bold).

But they may become so expensive and difficult to obtain that people will be unable/unwilling (same result) to acquire them.

Depending what you mean by this specifically, you may as well be saying "regulated out of existence." They will not become difficult to obtain, except perhaps being on back order. Many products in vaping land are 'so expensive.' Except for those, none will be outrageously expensive. But I guess that's all relative. To a DIY juicer, 50 cents per ml may be called outrageously expensive, no?

Don't you see it???? They don't need to ban--they just need to make it impractical or unaffordable for most people. BT wins--their stuff again is affordable and widely available--both cigarettes and e-cigarettes. What's not to like?

I've seen this scenario presented umpteen ways since 4/24/14. The "impractical" and "unaffordable" are not likely anytime in next 10,000 years. Give or take.

 

[Katya]

They will not become difficult to obtain,

Thanks. I feel better now.

I've no desire to play word games with you or accept your wagers (that you seem to be so fond of). I won't waste my time debating someone who "knows" things that even Zeller, admittedly, doesn't know yet. He said he didn't know--but you do?

 

[Kent C]

Nobody's saying that they will be regulated out of existence.

Oh, I'm fairly certain I can find that wording (in bold).

Here's something close:

"If electronic cigarettes are deemed to be subject to chapter IX of the FD&C Act, the cost of premarket applications would increase the cost of entering and remaining in the market......The total costs of complying with the proposed rule would create the potential for exit;"

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AboutFDA/ReportsManualsForms/Reports/EconomicAnalyses/UCM394933.pdf

 

[salemgold]

Thanks. I feel better now.

I've no desire to play word games with you or accept your wagers (that you seem to be so fond of). I won't waste my time debating someone who "knows" things that even Zeller, admittedly, doesn't know yet. He said he didn't know--but you do?

I had to take a break from this thread for a few days but I can't believe that the exact same thing is going on here. I think that some folks just like to argue for the sake of argument and seeing what kind of rise that they are able to get from folks. It is just too hard to believe that when every single point that a person makes is proven wrong in triplicate, that they just keep going on and on with the same old word games. It is the only reason that makes any sense to me at all anyway.

 

[Katya]

 

[Kent C]

At least in the movie he learned something

 

[Sirius]

Sorry if this offends anyone..............https://larry5154.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/head-up-....jpg

Yeah with the exception of that..I have about said all I can say on the subject of the FDA proposed regulations..so I'll part with this thread. We may be screwed by the government but we won't let them keep us down right? I won't anyway. Too stubborn. lol

 

[skoony]

just a little note to the diy'ers.
i know a lot of you have stocked up.i believe till this all washes out
that might be a prudent thing to do.
however,if the FDA gets really heavy handed how are you going to get
your PG and VG when you have to obtain a federal license to buy it.
when you send your application along with your obscenely large check,
please include a lengthy summary of what you plan to do with it,
how you are going to do it,a detailed explanation of your mixing process and how safe it is
for you,anyone within ten miles of you and the environment.
that along with the prerequisite license from the EPA you'd be good to go.

regards
mike