Fda news release

[sherid]

In personal care products (e.g. skin cream and lotions, deodorants) DEG is often replaced by selected diethylene glycol ethers.

Diethylene glycol is also illegally used as counterfeit glycerin in some nations and sold internationally as a component of cough syrup, toothpaste, and mouthwash.[1]

Can be used as an adulterant by winemakers to create a "sweet" wine.


[edit] Toxicity
Diethylene glycol has low acute toxicity in animal experiments.[2] The LD50 for small mammals has been tested at between 2 and 25 g/kg - much less toxic than its relative ethylene glycol, but still unsuitable for consumption. Several epidemics of poisonings have occurred when DEG was substituted for the non-toxic naturally occurring "triol" glycerine (also called glycerol) or propylene glycol in foodstuffs and pharmaceuticals. It appears diethylene glycol is more hazardous to humans than implied by oral toxicity data in laboratory animals.

Because of its adverse effects on humans, diethylene glycol is not allowed for use in food and drugs. The U.S. Code of Federal Regulations allows no more than 0.2% of diethylene glycol in polyethylene glycol when the latter is used as a food additive.[

What was the percentage of Diethylene Glycol found in that one cartridge? Was it more than 0.2%?

 

[Applejackson]

i hear ya - my point is not to emphasize that there were problems with the ingredients - my point is that the fda is going to try to make sure they find SOMETHING wrong - so i am hopeful that the ejuice manufacturers would be proactive and show their integrity as positively as possible up front and straight-forward

and why do you think i am angry ?
is sodium angry when it is introduced to water and it explodes in violence ?
or is it just a normal reaction to radical combinations in chemistry ?

Heheh. Yeah, I get pretty riled up too at times, but more over the U.S. government/FDA/ban advocates than what Chinese manufacturers are doing. If there were no controversies caused by these organizations and the yellow journalism that's going on, then Americans would start manufacturing the devices and juices. We wouldn't even have to buy ANYTHING from China--it would be a non-issue. Not only that, but the tech would probably start advancing in leaps and bounds if the U.S. and Europe started putting their best minds to the design and production of PV's.

 

[Applejackson]

In personal care products (e.g. skin cream and lotions, deodorants) DEG is often replaced by selected diethylene glycol ethers.

Diethylene glycol is also illegally used as counterfeit glycerin in some nations and sold internationally as a component of cough syrup, toothpaste, and mouthwash.[1]

Can be used as an adulterant by winemakers to create a "sweet" wine.


[edit] Toxicity
Diethylene glycol has low acute toxicity in animal experiments.[2] The LD50 for small mammals has been tested at between 2 and 25 g/kg - much less toxic than its relative ethylene glycol, but still unsuitable for consumption. Several epidemics of poisonings have occurred when DEG was substituted for the non-toxic naturally occurring "triol" glycerine (also called glycerol) or propylene glycol in foodstuffs and pharmaceuticals. It appears diethylene glycol is more hazardous to humans than implied by oral toxicity data in laboratory animals.

Because of its adverse effects on humans, diethylene glycol is not allowed for use in food and drugs. The U.S. Code of Federal Regulations allows no more than 0.2% of diethylene glycol in polyethylene glycol when the latter is used as a food additive.[

What was the percentage of Diethylene Glycol found in that one cartridge? Was it more than 0.2%?

I believe I read it was 1%, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they rounded that up.

 

[kinabaloo]

The U.S. Code of Federal Regulations allows no more than 0.2% of diethylene glycol in polyethylene glycol when the latter is used as a food additive.

What was the percentage of Diethylene Glycol found in that one cartridge? Was it more than 0.2%?

I believe it was 1%.

That 0.2% is allowable tells us that it is a normal constituent of the manufacture of PEG, and perhaps PG or VG too), and needs to be purified out, down to not more than 0.2%.

PEG is used as a laxative (because it is not metabolised). In this case, one might ingest say 100ml.

In contrast, if one vapes 3ml a day, that 1% does not add up to much, considering that 0.2% is deemed ok.

0.2% of 100ml PEG = 0.2ml
1% of 3ml = 0.03ml

In any case, the vast majority of e-juice doesn't contain anty DEG.

And with most juice manufacturers now switching to purer forms of nicotine rather than simpler tobacco extraction, as I had argued for for some time, the few remaining contaminants, such as nitrosamines, will also be reduced.

If the DEG in that cart was a true finding, it was probably due to a tobacco batch with unusually hight DEG. DEG being used to keep tobacco moist.

 

[BigJimW]

 

[DC2]

the lab testing now which can be found here Electronic Cigarettes

Wow, go back in time and read the News Release portion of this report.
It is so much more offensive now than I remembered it to be.

The FDA is full of crap up to their elbows.

 

[RandallFlagg]

HAA! Very nice, BigJim!

 

[chad]

Any idea why they tested specifically for Diethylene Glycol?

They probably test everything for diethylene glycol. It was because of diethylene glycol that the FDA was created. They're just trying to be true to their roots...

Seriously though, they probably check for ethylene and diethylene glycols anytime PG or glycerin is involved as the can be (and have been) used in place of PG and glycerine both accidentally and intentionally. The most recent case was the Panama cough syrup and toothpaste one.

 

[edlogic]

Heheh. Yeah, I get pretty riled up too at times, but more over the U.S. government/FDA/ban advocates than what Chinese manufacturers are doing. If there were no controversies caused by these organizations and the yellow journalism that's going on, then Americans would start manufacturing the devices and juices. We wouldn't even have to buy ANYTHING from China--it would be a non-issue. Not only that, but the tech would probably start advancing in leaps and bounds if the U.S. and Europe started putting their best minds to the design and production of PV's.

you got that right
they should be all glass with auto juice feed

 

[Sun Vaporer]

If we think this is bad, I wonder what they are going to find "wrong" with the device? Is that the next "big bomb" they are saving. I can hear it now--"lead paint" or "lead solder" --Whatever they think they can come up with-- Remember the FDA is calling the e-cig a "medical device" so I am sure they are going to "test" the yeck out of it also.

So stay tuned for Part 2.

Sun

 

[Applejackson]

If we think this is bad, I wonder what they are going to find "wrong" with the device? Is that the next "big bomb" they are saving. I can hear it now--"lead paint" or "lead solder" --Whatever they think they can come up with-- Remember the FDA is calling the e-cig a "medical device" so I am sure they are going to "test" the yeck out of it also.

So stay tuned for Part 2.

Sun

Yeah, I kinda saw that coming. Even I have some questions I'd like to see answered there though.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Yeah, I kinda saw that coming. Even I have some questions I'd like to see answered there though.

Apple--well I can tell you I had the BE112 atomizer tested for lead paint myself before I re-purchased more then you would want to know and that particular 801 atomizer had none. I do not know about others--these were the black ones. Do you think BEST will reimburse me?

Sun

 

[Applejackson]

Apple--well I can tell you I had the BE112 atomizer tested for lead paint myself before I re-purchased more then you would want to know and that particular 801 atomizer had none. I do not know about others--these were the black ones. Do you think BEST will reimburse me?

Sun

I was thinking more along the lines of the safety of the element and metals in the atomizer when heated and inhaled. I know with herbal vaporizers it's best to have an all ceramic heating element. I don't know of specific health issues or anything, I'd just like to see it looked into.

Kind of off topic: Do you think it would be possible to make an atomizer with an all ceramic element, maybe something like those ceramic glow rods used for heating herbs, but in a slightly smaller contained unit? It might help with the carbonized coil issues, though might make the unit more fragile to dropping/jarring. Just a thought I had just now. Not fully thought through yet.

 

[harmony gardens]

I was thinking more along the lines of the safety of the element and metals in the atomizer when heated and inhaled. I know with herbal vaporizers it's best to have an all ceramic heating element. I don't know of specific health issues or anything, I'd just like to see it looked into.

Kind of off topic: Do you think it would be possible to make an atomizer with an all ceramic element, maybe something like those ceramic glow rods used for heating herbs, but in a slightly smaller contained unit? It might help with the carbonized coil issues, though might make the unit more fragile to dropping/jarring. Just a thought I had just now. Not fully thought through yet.

You know,,, you really should bounce this one around in the modders forum,,, sounds like some good thinking,,,

 

[Our House]

Remember the FDA is calling the e-cig a "medical device" so I am sure they are going to "test" the yeck out of it also.

Calling it "the e-cig" (and not taking issue with ONLY certain liquids) is a major problem in itself. There's so much room for equivocation it's not even funny. It would be like banning the sales and marketing of "car" until everything is tested because there may have been some bad gas somewhere.

Then the people who sell/import/manufacture cars (and even bumpers and brake pedals and car radios) are clueless about whether or not it's legal to do what they're doing, and paypal doesn't know if they can process their CC payments, etc. etc. etc.

(Okay, I'll admit that cars aren't a perfect analogy because they're not a consumed drug, but you can see my point. The FDA and antis get to call something "e-cig" and then discourage the use of everything associated with that term as they see fit.)

This constant shifting of goal posts is probably why you haven't seen any submitted applications and/or studies by the manufacturers and major companies. Why spend so much time and money on something that will never be good enough for your opponents?

We have powerful adversaries in high places with a LOT of money. These people have a vested interest in eliminating ANYTHING related to ecigs because ecig products hurt them financially.

AND HERE IS WHAT'S EVEN SCARIER:

THE PRECEDING STATEMENTS ARE TRUE REGARDLESS OF WHETHER ECIGS ARE BETTER FOR YOUR HEALTH, WALLET, STATE OF MIND, SURROUNDING FRIENDS & FAMILY, OR NOT!!

If ecigs are effective at getting people off of analogs and NRTs, then they are a problem!

When people are going to lose money because of your product they WILL do everything in their power to stop you (ethically or not) in order to protect their financial interests.

 

[booboo]

So all's we need to do to get the FDA to approve this device/liquid is to prove that it kills people (like cigarettes), or has serious side effects like the 9 million other drugs they allow. Any volunteers?

 

[sherid]

61 percent of the respondents knew of cases where "Department of Health and Human Services or FDA political appointees have inappropriately injected themselves into FDA determinations or actions." Only 47 percent think the "FDA routinely provides complete and accurate information to the public." 81 percent agreed that the "public would be better served if the independence and authority of FDA post-market safety systems were strengthened." 70 percent disagree with the statement that FDA has sufficient resources to perform effectively its mission of "protecting public healthSand helping to get accurate science-based information they need to use medicines and foods to improve their health." "The FDA regulates products vital to the well-being of all Americans, including food, drugs, vaccines, and medical devices," said Dr. Grifo. "To fully protect public health and safety, the FDA must have the best available independent scientific data."

To address the concerns raised by FDA scientists, UCS recommends:

Â* Accountability: FDA leadership must face consequences if they side with commercial or political interests and not with the American people. Â* Transparency: Scientific research and reviews should be open so any undue manipulation is immediately apparent.

Â* Protection: Safeguards must be put in place for all government scientists who speak out.

"What we see at the FDA, while dramatic and frightening, is all too common at many federal agencies," said Dr. Grifo. "All federal scientists need protections so they can speak out when their science is manipulated, and all federal agencies need fully functioning independent advisory committees. FDA leadership must understand and support independent science and it is up to Congress to hold them accountable."
FDA Scientists Report Bush Administration Pressure to Falsify Scientific Data & Procedures & Lie to Public

 

[LaceyUnderall]

For those who have seen this I apologize for posting it more than once in the forum today, but for those who haven't, it is necessary that you see this!

In response to the FDA analysis of the electronic cigarette, nJoy had an Independent lab analyze the data put forth in the FDA's toxicology report. Their results were very interesting and call into question the validity of the FDA's report.

Contained in this blog post is the actual PDF so you can read what the independent lab has to say regarding the study and the findings. Please feel free to disperse the post or the PDF internet wide as journalists who are promoting the idea that the FDA study is quality, can possibly do a follow up story like the one recently posted in the Washington Times.

Technical Review and Analysis of FDA Report: Evaluation of e-cigarettes

 

[Taelon]

Technical Review and Analysis of FDA Report: Evaluation of e-cigarettes

* All of the tobacco-associated impurities found in the NJOY products were “present
but at less than the level of the Nicotrol® inhaler [manufacturer] specification”
according to the FDA report.

That's nice to hear I hope this has been scientficly proven in the full PDF.

But I fear most people won't "buy" industry sponsored studies.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

That's nice to hear I hope this has been scientficly proven in the full PDF.

But I fear most people won't "buy" industry sponsored studies.

Most people are not aware that a majority of the studies that are done for approved FDA products are industry sponsored "supplier" studies.

Most people are also not aware that the FDA is funded by the very companies that are seeking approval for their products and not by the government itself. Hopefully, this is one thing that the electronic cigarette will bring out into the open. And now that the FDA is going to be funded by Big Tobacco and Pharm, what a nightmare that is!