Fda news release

[Our House]

[EDIT] Our House, I would love to see those stats... however, I would bet that no supplier is going to come forward and say "Yeah, we don't ID" or even "We fired Mr. Smith for selling a kit to a 12 year old". Are any suppliers keeping track of that kind of thing?

Of course not, but it can be done from the buyer end instead. Find a kid (any kid) who bought an ecig. Get their receipt and compare it to the records of the seller.

If they used a credit card online, the purchase was unauthorized/illegal, right? You have to be 18 to have a card. Plus, there's a paper trail. No such trail exists for grocery stores that sell analogs. Other than that, I'm not sure what kind of security measures can be put in place. I mean, you have to be 21 to play the lottery or bet horses and both of those are legally available online in the US.

If they bought it live, the fine an ecig vendor pays for selling to minors should be the same as the fine a grocery store owner pays for selling to minors. Why the whole industry should suffer for a small percentage of vendors is beyond me.

But the bottom line is that the people who are claiming sales to underage children have provided NOTHING at all to back up their speculations and assertions. They're just saying it...and this is why we have the "children facts" on our side and they don't. You're right, it IS a subjective argument. However the way it stands right now, it's only subjective for them, not us.

 

[TheIllustratedMan]

It is a pharmacy, and that's all I'll say.

 

[cybervex]

The biggest red flag here is the FDA keeping names of the suppliers anonymous. If they found carcinogens in a product, why protect the product's manufacturer? I thought it was their job to EXPOSE harm, not hide it.

Something isn't right.

Obviously the FDA's job is not to expose harm it is to CONTROL

 

[grimmer255]

This is my point when we use the chinese made e-cigs we have very little control over quality. This is why I think we should start making our own. Mods are great because they look nothing like cigarettes. plus long life batteries is a plus...how about the atties and there quality control again we need to make our own. How about e-liquid which is the main issue...JC is doing a great job.
What I think can happen is have a couple of manufacturers make synthetic nicotine only....then the suppliers can can buy them and then make there own flavors or have that same company make it for them. Yes the cost of e-liquid may go up but judging by JC prices it wont be to bad. This is a start but its up to the suppliers....

 

[quovadis]

Guys
am i missing out on something?

How can they ban PV'S and not ban analogs?

Not quite sure what they will end up banning.
But they can't ban components.

Freaking batteries will be illegal soon !!!

"Vox populi, Vox Dei"

 

[cybervex]

I know the whole concept is " to get people to quit smoking PERIOD", but the patch isnt doing it, the gum isnt doing it, and i think myself and countless other suppliers hear form our customers how much this has helped them more then a patch or gum

How can the whole concept be "to get people to quit smoking PERIOD" when the FDA cannot ban cigarettes or nicotine?

I think the whole concept is about MONEY

 

[TheIllustratedMan]

Cigarettes fall under the "tobacco product" category, which is under the FDA's jurisdiction thanks to the new law that was just passed (Family Health and Something or Other). The law specifically states that cigarettes cannot be banned, nor can nicotine content be reduced to 0.

Electronic cigarettes (arguably) fall under the Drug/Device Combination classification, which is fully under the FDA's authority, and they can approve or not approve anything in that category that they would like. A non-approval (specifically or implicitly) results in a de-facto ban, meaning that the product cannot be imported, marketed, or sold in the United States.

 

[OutWest]

Guys
am i missing out on something?

How can they ban PV'S and not ban analogs?

Not quite sure what they will end up banning.
But they can't ban components.

Freaking batteries will be illegal soon !!!

"Vox populi, Vox Dei"

Even though it can be used for many things, the FDA's stance is that ecig hardware has one purpose, and one purpose only - for using to administer nicotine.

 

[grimmer255]

And yes it is about money. we are giving the chinese US money. I think there are others that are behind this ban. But not those you think. The US dollar is slowly losing its value and the more we spend over seas the less the value of US products become. To gain from this we need get people to buy from the US. We need to make this product worth more than the products from over seas.

 

[OutWest]

How can the whole concept be "to get people to quit smoking PERIOD" when the FDA cannot ban cigarettes or nicotine?

I think the whole concept is about MONEY

I agree completely. Big pharma funds WHO and the FDA and they most certainly feel their NRT products threatened by the ecig. There's the tax revenue from tobacco that the govt will lose if people switch to ecigs. And, the various agencies that have spoken out against the ecig (ie: Tobacco Free Kids) get funding from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, whose funding comes from stock ownership in Johnson & Johnson.

 

[TheIllustratedMan]

I agree completely. Big pharma funds WHO and the FDA and they most certainly feel their NRT products threatened by the ecig. There's the tax revenue from tobacco that the govt will lose if people switch to ecigs. And, the various agencies that have spoken out against the ecig (ie: Tobacco Free Kids) get funding from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, whose funding comes from stock ownership in Johnson & Johnson.

Guys, seriously. It's irrelevant. I could say the same thing about you OutWest. You're a supplier, so obviously the only reason you're trying to keep it out of the FDA's hands is so that you can make money. I'm not trying to insult you, but that's how easy it is to be misconstrued.

So, please, let's keep to facts. Presenting the facts in the proper light will win the day for us, I believe.

 

[Carlos49]

How can the whole concept be "to get people to quit smoking PERIOD" when the FDA cannot ban cigarettes or nicotine?

I think the whole concept is about MONEY

I have to agree with you it's about the money... until they can find a way to tax the **** out of us and make their money they are not going to make it easy on us. They all have their hands in the cookie jar and want a big handful... as always. So far they are making millions from the Tobacco and big Pharm companies and now that those numbers are starting to drop they have to find another way to make it up. If I had the money I would gladly donate for our own testing so we could show the public the honest truth and not what the FDA tells them with their scare tactics.
Hope this makes sense ... I'm so ...... and I may not be thinking clearly.

 

[grimmer255]

why not make this product worth more than the NRT products.....this can happen....think about it ask any African American did they think an African American could ever become president and 99% would say not in my life time....well did it happen yes it finally happened. We have a great man doing great things for our country. Why not use the same tactics as he did.

 

[kinabaloo]

The press release is a disgrace.

One can find much more toxins and higher levels in tap water.

The devil is in the detail. By 'find'/'detect', we are talking one part per million, at most.

The test results actually are very encouraging (spin aside).

The purity of the juice is very high, better than I would have expected (because it is difficult to achieve).

'The carcinogens': actually just tiny trace amounts of certain tobacco constituents.

The science report is level headed but the press release is shockingly misleading.

The juice is safe ! There's more toxins in the air we breathe.

 

[tvujec]

Hypothetical question:

1. If FDA bans e-cigs
2. I go back to anologs
3. Few years later I get seriously ill or worse

Can I (or my family) sue FDA for negligence? The argument is that they willfully and knowingly prevented access to a life-saving alternative.

Any attorneys in the house?

I think that you would still have to prove that e-cigs would be better for your health, and if it stays banned it will be less likely that someone does the testing. If the acceptable testing happens in the mean time, that would lead to FDA approval, and they are again in the clear.

IANAL, but I think they are legally safe. However we have a fairly "flexible" judicial system here, and potential success of a class action suit is always possible.

Outside of that, I find it that shaming individuals into changing their opinion works quite well in this case. They can talk all they want about "stopping the smoking habit", but once they are forced to discuss specific case they end up extremely in-compassionate.

 

[Mr Sinister]

Off topic, but what exactly has this "great man" done? All campaign rhetoric as far as I'm concerned. Empty promises, no different than 99% of all other politicians.

 

[grimmer255]

One can find much more in tap water.

The devil is in the detail. By find/detect, we are taking a part per million, at most.

The test results actually are very encouraging (spin aside).

The purity of the juice is very high, better than I would have expected (because it is difficult to achieve).

I agree it is a good purity...and i think water probably contains the same level...8-o

 

[grimmer255]

Off topic, but what exactly has this "great man" done? All campaign rhetoric as far as I'm concerned. Empty promises, no different than 99% of all other politicians.

the man came into the hell the last president left behind...he is working on trying to create jobs....make health care more affordable...and trying to end this war that is going on. Remember he didnt make this mess...

 

[kinabaloo]

I agree it is a good purity...and i think water probably contains the same level...8-o

Tap water is far worse than you think - contains nearly every chemical known, from prescription and non-prescription drugs, to industrial and nuclear waste, agricultural chemicals, sewage, etc.

 

[grimmer255]

And dont forget he did say that it wont happen over night...he said that it will be a long and hard road ahead...and if you ask me he hit the road hard the very first day he was in office...compare that to other presidents.