Fda news release

[Mr Sinister]

Gotta love the way they start the report. Saying e-cigs could be as dangerous as the real thing.

 

[grimmer255]

you should here this doc on ecigs he says that we should take the FDA word on this. he says the report by the FDA found significant amount of cancer causing ingrediants.....he even said the the NRT products are much safer than Ecigs

 

[spaceburrito]

I'd like to know the areas where children still under the care of a pediatrician have upwards of $100 of their own money to "pick up" e-cigs at the mall kiosks, most of which REQUIRE ID!

That "Doctor" was such a jackass.

 

[grimmer255]

i would like to read the report he read b/c the report i read said the eliquid has less than NRT products. and only one cartridge had DEG and at 1%.

 

[Sar]

That story on msnbc was all fluff. There was one highlight that said that her doctor was thrilled that she went from 2 packs to 1 pack every 3-4 days thru vaping. I think that is a positive. Big tobacco has their hand in this guaranteed. There losing alot of business to the ecigs.

They interviewed only one person: a pediatrician!!! Jonathan Winikof or Witikoff.

Of course, he used the FDA report and all that stuff just sounded crazy. The interviewer (Dr. Nancy?) did mention some of the benefits of ecigs like no second-hand smoke, etc and asked if he would be okay with just a warning on the ecigs. He wasn't buying that and of course mentioned that there already is nicotine inhaler that is safe.

Unfortunatly, Dr. Nancy didn't ask him why aren't people buying the inhaler instead of PVs.

 

[ournature]

This all thing happening in your country is scary.
Here in italy, where i live, you can buy some penstyle devices and nic or no-nic cartdrige right in some pharmacy/drugstores next to aspirin and condoms, it's aproved and legal.
what's happening over there sounds more like a tobacco's megacorporations attach to e-cig...

i'm sure they will do a regulation for e-cigs and liquids sooner or later as it's unhideble that this stuff is waaay safer than cigarettes and it's impossible they will ban them forever,
for sure they are taking time for kick the ecig revolution back for a while, just the time for j reynolds and p morris to find a solution for their business...

 

[grimmer255]

but the reporter did go ahead and say that its hard to believe that tar and second hand smoke is a lot worse than ecigs....and the doc said we dont know

 

[Mr Sinister]

That doesn't sound very significant to me. Compared to tobacco especially. The whole "save the children" thing is a joke. It is the sole responsibility of us, the parents, not the government to protect and teach children.

 

[kinabaloo]

i would like to read the report he read b/c the report i read said the eliquid has less than NRT products. and only one cartridge had DEG and at 1%.

It was actually quoted as "<1%"

And is probably around 0.000001%

 

[quovadis]

Now, got my wife breaking my balls as well!!
She read the press releases and is freaking out.
If a man can't vape in his own home, what is there left for me to do?

I think we need to invent a liquid that has a transparent vapor, so we can vape undercover.

 

[DaveDzRochNY]

I'd like to know the areas where children still under the care of a pediatrician have upwards of $100 of their own money to "pick up" e-cigs at the mall kiosks, most of which REQUIRE ID!

The "kid thing" makes me wonder which children will actually have the
patience to recharge batteries constantly and top off every few minutes
even if lured in by the fruity flavors. (*)

From what I read, ADD is rampant among the chillin of today.

Maybe they can make a Ritalin Flavor!


(*) Actually, I have found the fruit flavors to among the most disgusting
and/or disappointing in the line of eLiquids.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

They interviewed only one person: a pediatrician!!! Jonathan Winikof or Witikoff.

Dr. Jonathan Winickoff, Chair of the American Academy of Pediatrics.

In his portion of the FDA Announcement he made the following arguments (these are per my notes as he was speaking live so they are paraphrased).

1. Appeal to young: Flavors are directly marketed to children. Fruit/Candy flavors increase curiosity and excitement.

2. Ecigs are a Gateway product to smoking: Attracted via novelty based on flavor etc. Easily accessible online and in malls. He also noted that vitamins in cartridges are a "direct health claim" Also, "adults only" is a direct marketing scheme to children. Nicotine can be toxic to children and children "might be able to puff the entire load of an e-cigarette".

Some more background on Dr. Winickoff: Dana-Farber/Harvard Cancer Center: Profile: Jonathan P. Winickoff, CLC M.D. M.P.H. Please note his list of articles published.

 

[Mr Sinister]

Luckily, my girl doesn't but anything that they try and feed us, so I am good for now. Their is a juice that emits no vapor I believe, I don't where to get it, though.

 

[grimmer255]

It was actually quoted as "<1%"

And is probably around 0.000001%

thats lower than what they put in frozen mcrowaveable food s

 

[kinabaloo]

One more thing. Though the report itself is reasonably level-headed, there are a few strange omissions. Besides not giving the figure for the DEG or what the detextability was for the apparatus for that chemical, they seemingly didn't test their control item - the Nicotrol - for 'tobacco-specific toxins' (i.e. traces of tobacco) or others. Which makes it difficult to put forward a comparison that puts the figures in perspective and shows that in fact they are 'normal'.

To not test the control item, or worse, not show those results, is either a bad mistake or rather fishy.

 

[spiderx]

Who were the Suppliers who Carts they test is what i want to know? Could some be using DEG instead of PG in their juice??? We really need to watch out for what's being put in our juice

You might want to read the report from the FDA, it's surprisingly readable. I wish I could give you a link, but its UCM173250.pdf. Basically, they found DEG in 1% concentration in the Smoking Everywhere 555 High juice. So 1% of 10mL is... almost nil, and definitely less than 1% of the LD50 (lethal dose for 50% of tests).

Here's the text of their conclusion:

Nicotine is present in both products. The Smoking Everywhere Electronic Cigarette cartridges listed as containing no nicotine in some cases had very low amounts of nicotine present. Tobacco specific nitrosamines and tobacco specific impurities were detected in both products at very low levels. DEG was identified in one cartridge, Smoking Everywhere 555 High. See Table 1 for results of analyses of entire cartridges after extraction.

Also, though they did find nicotine in the 'no-nic' carts - they found that when used with a hot atomizer there was barely detectable amounts of nicotine delivered (0.04mg at the highest). I think its crazy that an atomizer only gets to 60 celsius max? very low temps!!

The fact that the "high nic" delivered more nicotine than the 10mg Nicotrol inhaler shouldn't be surprising to anyone.

The nic delivered per puff did vary widely - but only for one sample. The NJoy Menthol High.

From the report, it looks they they did not check to see if Nicotrol had consistent nicotine output, or contamination either.

So, my advice is to stay away from the 555 High - Smoking Everywhere might want to get a new supplier for that particular one! But if you have it, I doubt it would harm you by vaporizing it. And if you have an NJoy, drip with it, or refill the carts with some dependable juice.

Also, it's probably best to get food grade PG since there is a possibility of contamination with DEG. I believe the food grade USP is tested for that. VG should be safe though.

 

[grimmer255]

One more thing. Though the report itself is reasonably level-headed, there are a few strange omissions. Besides not giving the figure for the DEG or what the detextability was for the apparatus for that chemical, they seemingly didn't test their control item - the Nicotrol - for 'tobacco-specific toxins' (i.e. traces of tobacco) or others. Which makes it difficult to put forward a comparison that puts the figures in perspective and shows that in fact they are 'normal'.

To not test the control item, or worse, not show those results, is either a bad mistake or rather fishy.

I wounder.........
Limit of detection Cotinine 20 ppb. Anabasine 10 ppb; myosmine 69 ppb; !-nicotyrine 170 ppb – present but at less than the level of the Nicotrol specification

 

[grimmer255]

Ill tell you what though I like that Dr. Nancy she really laid it on thick.....I think she believes ecigs are a lot better for you than analogs....she could be an asset....

 

[TheIllustratedMan]

i just dissected the report as best as i could in the other thread. i also noticed that their control was apparently only tested for level of nicotine.

also, anyone else notice that one of their methods was redacted?

 

[kinabaloo]

You might want to read the report from the FDA, it's surprisingly readable. I wish I could give you a link, but its UCM173250.pdf. Basically, they found DEG in 1% concentration in the Smoking Everywhere 555 High juice. So 1% of 10mL is... almost nil, and definitely less than 1% of the LD50 (lethal dose for 50% of tests).


Also, though they did find nicotine in the 'no-nic' carts - they found that when used with a hot atomizer there was barely detectable amounts of nicotine delivered (0.04mg at the highest). I think its crazy that an atomizer only gets to 60 celsius max? very low temps!!

The fact that the "high nic" delivered more nicotine than the 10mg Nicotrol inhaler shouldn't be surprising to anyone.

The nic delivered per puff did vary widely - but only for one sample. The NJoy Menthol High.

From the report, it looks they they did not check to see if Nicotrol had consistent nicotine output, or contamination either.

So, my advice is to stay away from the 555 High - Smoking Everywhere might want to get a new supplier for that particular one! But if you have it, I doubt it would harm you by vaporizing it. And if you have an NJoy, drip with it, or refill the carts with some dependable juice.

Also, it's probably best to get food grade PG since there is a possibility of contamination with DEG. I believe the food grade USP is tested for that. VG should be safe though.

First correct the 1% figure before it becomes a fact - see my other comments on this.

DEG is sometimes used to keep tobacco moist; the minute trace found probably came from that source.

~~~

Welcome spiderx