Fda news release

[DaBrat]

Dr. Jonathan Winickoff, Chair of the American Academy of Pediatrics.

In his portion of the FDA Announcement he made the following arguments (these are per my notes as he was speaking live so they are paraphrased).

1. Appeal to young: Flavors are directly marketed to children. Fruit/Candy flavors increase curiosity and excitement.

2. Ecigs are a Gateway product to smoking: Attracted via novelty based on flavor etc. Easily accessible online and in malls. He also noted that vitamins in cartridges are a "direct health claim" Also, "adults only" is a direct marketing scheme to children. Nicotine can be toxic to children and children "might be able to puff the entire load of an e-cigarette".

Some more background on Dr. Winickoff: Dana-Farber/Harvard Cancer Center: Profile: Jonathan P. Winickoff, CLC M.D. M.P.H. Please note his list of articles published.

Seeing his stance on parental smoking around children etc.... I decided to send the good doctor an email:

Dr. Winickoff,

I recently read statements credited to you in the FDA release of its opinion on ecigarettes. Looking at some of your published works, I am very surprised and disappointed at your take on the situation. As a Pediatric Specialist, it seems to me that one of your basic concerns would be the effects of second-hand smoke on your pediatric patients. As in your work addressing 'parental smoking in pediatrics and family practice'. I see nothing in the FDA release that addresses this issue.

As the parent of a asthmatic child, and being unable to quit the smoking habit, what I would like to see your opinion on is the effect of the ecigarette in relation to second hand smoke in pediatrics since this seems to be your specialty.

I also find your assertion that the ecigarettes are designed to appeal to children based on the flavor selection to be based on nothing in the realm of fact. Fortunately, the starter kit of the ecigarette puts it out of the price range of any child and the users of this device generally don't have 19 more laying around that can go missing at the hands of a curious teen. Unlike a pack of cigarettes or a fruit flavored nicotine gum that can easily fall into the hands of a toddler or someone else that the contained dosage can be ingested to fatality.

As a user of the ecigarette, I find that the flavor is more likely designed to give the smoker a niche to find in order to prevent a return to the dangers of smoking combusted tobacco. Any ecigarette user knows that an ecigarette does not taste like a traditional tobacco cigarette therefore making the additional avail flavors a welcome reprieve. I have not smoked a cigarette regularly in well over a month and not at all since I found out how to manage my supplies to keep them available.

Moreover, what I would also like to see is this harm reduction device compared to the device that it replaces, a combustable cigarette. As a physician, you cannot possibly be against harm reduction. Now, if the research shows that the ecigarette produces as many harmfuls toxins to the smoker and the bystander as the combustable tobacco cigarette, every vaper (we do not smoke) would like to see those test results.

Respectfully


Hmmmm wonder if he will write back

 

[c_b]

Houston, has picked this up...

FDA: Electronic Cigarettes Contain Toxic Chemicals - Money News Story - KPRC Houston

Geez... time to stock up.

 

[bwood12043]

One more small side note about the "flavors" of the liquids ingested.

Last December, I found some of the sweet flavors were having a totally unintended effect on me.

I am 56, overweight, and have found dieting to be just as frustrating as trying to quit smoking. I realize that the issue here is somewhat lack of will power, but there are many in this great nation that suffer from that ailment.

I found that after a meal especially, vaping one of the sweet flavors, or one of the mocha, coffee, or "after dinner" flavors, kept me away from the desserts I so craved. Then, after not having a dessert, the craving for an analog was not a sstrong. Two benefits in one.

It is very presumptious to say that the flavors are targeted at children. Some of us older children like flavors too. In fact, really the only juices I DON'T particularly like are the tobacco flavors.

I do NOT want my PV to taste, look, or harm like an analog. I want it to steer me away from those demons, that's all. I still have to drive, but I have a companion to help me along the way.

And, in these forums, I have some backseat drivers along for the ride!

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Seeing his stance on parental smoking around children etc.... I decided to send the good doctor an email:

Dr. Winickoff,

I recently read statements credited to you in the FDA release of its opinion on ecigarettes. Looking at some of your published works, I am very surprised and disappointed at your take on the situation. As a Pediatric Specialist, it seems to me that one of your basic concerns would be the effects of second-hand smoke on your pediatric patients. As in your work addressing 'parental smoking in pediatrics and family practice'. I see nothing in the FDA release that addresses this issue.

As the parent of a asthmatic child, and being unable to quit the smoking habit, what I would like to see your opinion on is the effect of the ecigarette in relation to second hand smoke in pediatrics since this seems to be your specialty.

I also find your assertion that the ecigarettes are designed to appeal to children based on the flavor selection to be based on nothing in the realm of fact. Fortunately, the starter kit of the ecigarette puts it out of the price range of any child and the users of this device generally don't have 19 more laying around that can go missing at the hands of a curious teen. Unlike a pack of cigarettes or a fruit flavored nicotine gum that can easily fall into the hands of a toddler or someone else that the contained dosage can be ingested to fatality.

As a user of the ecigarette, I find that the flavor is more likely designed to give the smoker a niche to find in order to prevent a return to the dangers of smoking combusted tobacco. Any ecigarette user knows that an ecigarette does not taste like a traditional tobacco cigarette therefore making the additional avail flavors a welcome reprieve. I have not smoked a cigarette regularly in well over a month and not at all since I found out how to manage my supplies to keep them available.

Moreover, what I would also like to see is this harm reduction device compared to the device that it replaces, a combustable cigarette. As a physician, you cannot possibly be against harm reduction. Now, if the research shows that the ecigarette produces as many harmfuls toxins to the smoker and the bystander as the combustable tobacco cigarette, every vaper (we do not smoke) would like to see those test results.

Respectfully


Hmmmm wonder if he will write back

Brilliant. He probably won't respond. If he does though, definitely share!

AND! Bones, yours to Brian Williams was pretty damn good too

 

[DaBrat]

One more small side note about the "flavors" of the liquids ingested.

Last December, I found some of the sweet flavors were having a totally unintended effect on me.

I am 56, overweight, and have found dieting to be just as frustrating as trying to quit smoking. I realize that the issue here is somewhat lack of will power, but there are many in this great nation that suffer from that ailment.

I found that after a meal especially, vaping one of the sweet flavors, or one of the mocha, coffee, or "after dinner" flavors, kept me away from the desserts I so craved. Then, after not having a dessert, the craving for an analog was not a sstrong. Two benefits in one.

It is very presumptious to say that the flavors are targeted at children. Some of us older children like flavors too. In fact, really the only juices I DON'T particularly like are the tobacco flavors.

I do NOT want my PV to taste, look, or harm like an analog. I want it to steer me away from those demons, that's all. I still have to drive, but I have a companion to help me along the way.

And, in these forums, I have some backseat drivers along for the ride!

LOL BWood. I completely understand. I presently mix 33% coconut, 33% Rum and 33% pineapple juice for my after dinner vape. Pina Coloda. It actually does remove the snackies.

 

[rustiangel]

Go here comment, plead our case

FDA Deems E-Cigs As Bad As The Real Thing

And here:

http://gizmodo.com/5320734/fda-deems-e+cigs-as-bad-as-the-real-thing

 

[DC2]

It was actually quoted as "<1%"
And is probably around 0.000001%

Diethylene glycol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The U.S. Code of Federal Regulations allows no more than 0.2% of diethylene glycol in polyethylene glycol when the latter is used as a food additive.[3]

 

[DC2]

One more thing. Though the report itself is reasonably level-headed, there are a few strange omissions. Besides not giving the figure for the DEG or what the detextability was for the apparatus for that chemical, they seemingly didn't test their control item - the Nicotrol - for 'tobacco-specific toxins' (i.e. traces of tobacco) or others. Which makes it difficult to put forward a comparison that puts the figures in perspective and shows that in fact they are 'normal'.

To not test the control item, or worse, not show those results, is either a bad mistake or rather fishy.

There is no getting around this fact.

And the general public will not see through the shenanigans.

 

[jentheartist]

Really, they presented three biased doctors...how surprising, I thought they would have had three impartial physicians.

What a joke. I don't know what pisses me off more, the fact that the FDA is nothing more than a shill for Tobacco and Pharma, or that they think we're too dumb to figure out that they're shills for Tobacco and Pharma.

LOL - we're suppose to be brainless - didn't you know that?

 

[harmony gardens]

If cigarette smoking adds so much to the cost of health care,,, why is such a promising technology as the electronic cigarette, being pushed down by the FDA?? This is an incredible opportunity, and the FDA's response is to discredit the technology and threaten to ban it, rather than to insure a safer product that consumers will embrace.

When catalytic converters were found to be helpful in reducing the dangerous effects of auto emissions, the EPA required them to be installed on all new cars at a cost of $400 per unit, and cars were adapted to burn a "safer" lead free formula. We didn't hear the FDA say at that time, that because it didn't eliminate ALL potentially dangerous emmissions, catalytic converters should be banned. What the FDA is doing in this case, would be the equivalent to saying that since Catalytic converters allowed some dangerous components, that they should be banned. It would be like saying people should either quit driving, or pay a tax and continue to drive thier highly polluting cars.

If electronic cigarettes are found to be even 50% safer than conventional cigarettes, they should be encouraged,,,, and we have the New Zealand study that shows that they are 99.9% to 99.999% safer. Nevermind implies the FDA, they aren't 100% safe.

The FDA can serve a useful function if they regulate the ingredients, labeling, marketing, and packaging to ensure that ecigs are indeed safer for everyone. Instead, they are saying that harm reduction is not on the table. Quit or smoke cigarettes is the FDA's stance, even while they say smoking is the largest preventable cause of death.

Nothing in this report shows ecigs aren't safer,,, it just proves it's not 100% safe, a threshold virtually nothing could pass. The perfect is the enemy of the good.

With so many former smokers willing to use a safer alternative, it only makes sence to encourage them to do so.

 

[DaBrat]

If cigarette smoking adds so much to the cost of health care,,, why is such a promising technology as the electronic cigarette, being pushed down by the FDA?? This is an incredible opportunity, and the FDA's response is to discredit the technology and threaten to ban it, rather than to insure a safer product that consumers will embrace.

When catalytic converters were found to be helpful in reducing the dangerous effects of auto emissions, the EPA required them to be installed on all new cars at a cost of $400 per unit, and cars were adapted to burn a "safer" lead free formula. We didn't hear the FDA say at that time, that because it didn't eliminate ALL potentially dangerous emmissions, catalytic converters should be banned. What the FDA is doing in this case, would be the equivalent to saying that since Catalytic converters allowed some dangerous components, that they should be banned. It would be like saying people should either quit driving, or pay a tax and continue to drive thier highly polluting cars.

If electronic cigarettes are found to be even 50% safer than conventional cigarettes, they should be encouraged,,,, and we have the New Zealand study that shows that they are 99.9% to 99.999% safer. Nevermind implies the FDA, they aren't 100% safe.

The FDA can serve a useful function if they regulate the ingredients, labeling, marketing, and packaging to ensure that ecigs are indeed safer for everyone. Instead, they are saying that harm reduction is not on the table. Quit or smoke cigarettes is the FDA's stance, even while they say smoking is the largest preventable cause of death.

Nothing in this report shows ecigs aren't safer,,, it just proves it's not 100% safe, a threshold virtually nothing could pass. The perfect is the enemy of the good.

With so many former smokers willing to use a safer alternative, it only makes sence to encourage them to do so.

Gardens why don't you copy and paste this into their contact us site? I just sent an email asking that they quit blowing smoke up my skirt... It doesn't tickle.

 

[DC2]

The one matter I do agree with is that the liquid needs to be manufactured in the USA and be done so with USP grade chemicals. This would at least inhibit any toxins stemming from a dirty environment. US manufacturers are responsible for what they produce so they are sure to get the formula correct every time or at least within reason.

Well, at least we have Johnson Creek.

 

[eric]

VS Vapor isn't made in China. It's made in India.

 

[Webby]

Nothing in this report shows ecigs aren't safer,,, it just proves it's not 100% safe, a threshold virtually nothing could pass. The perfect is the enemy of the good.

With so many former smokers willing to use a safer alternative, it only makes sence to encourage them to do so.

Well put -

• 2 resellers (out of thousands selling PVs and associated products)
• 1 (out of 20) cartridges were tested as harmful
• 1 carcinogen (out of the 60 found in analogs)

= E-Cigs are AS BAD as Cigarettes?

...where's my slide rule...

 

[grimmer255]

VS Vapor isn't made in China. It's made in India.

I might have to check out your liquid.

 

[NekoGurrl]

If cigarette smoking adds so much to the cost of health care,,, why is such a promising technology as the electronic cigarette, being pushed down by the FDA?? .....

Who said anything about trying to increase health? The whole idea is to keep the cost of health care rising. Our medical system in this country has long ago given up promoting health, they want to provide treatment only. That's where the profit is.

When I drive into the city, where do I see most construction occurring? Hospitals! There is so much money flowing thru these buildings, and our lifestyles are tailor made to ensure that we will be regularly contributing to these temples of the almighty dollar.

The simple fact that the AMA refuses to consider that diet would have any influence on our health. The American Diabetes Association has gone on record saying that the only way to control diabetes is thru medications, when it has been proven that for type 2 diabetics, only a change in diet is needed to reverse the disease.

I'm sorry for getting so off topic, but this is just another example of our death-care system showing it's true colors.

 

[xXRIDEXx]

Who said anything about trying to increase health? The whole idea is to keep the cost of health care rising. Our medical system in this country has long ago given up promoting health, they want to provide treatment only. That's where the profit is.

Took the words right out of my mouth!

 

[Jann]

I am fairly new to E cigs but I would like to know what is really in them!

 

[mjdzero]

Ok so they think it’s bad to vapor well have they seen whuts in a normal cig i gess not

Benzene (petrol additive)
A colourless cyclic hydrocarbon obtained from coal and petroleum, used as a solvent in fuel and in chemical manufacture - and contained in cigarette smoke. It is a known carcinogen and is associated with leukaemia.

Formaldehyde (embalming fluid)
A colourless liquid, highly poisonous, used to preserve dead bodies - also found in cigarette smoke. Known to cause cancer, respiratory, skin and gastrointestinal problems.

Ammonia (toilet cleaner)
Used as a flavouring, frees nicotine from tobacco turning it into a gas, found in dry cleaning fluids.

Acetone (nail polish remover)
Fragrant volatile liquid ketone, used as a solvent, for example, nail polish remover - found in cigarette smoke.

Tar
Particulate matter drawn into lungs when you inhale on a lighted cigarette. Once inhaled, smoke condenses and about 70 per cent of the tar in the smoke is deposited in the smoker's lungs.

Nicotine (insecticide/addictive drug)
One of the most addictive substances known to man, a powerful and fast-acting medical and non-medical poison. This is the chemical which causes addiction.

Carbon Monoxide (CO) (car exhaust fumes)
An odourless, tasteless and poisonous gas, rapidly fatal in large amounts - it's the same gas that comes out of car exhausts and is the main gas in cigarette smoke, formed when the cigarette is lit. Others you may recognize are :

Arsenic (rat poison), Hydrogen Cyanide (gas chamber poison)

 

[Sevenchan]

My learnung curve included frying 2 atomizers within a week. I dismantled them ordered supplies and began testing different coil and wick combinations along with different configurations of metal mesh and coil placement. My best performer so far is one layer of mesh against the ceramic cup then several layers of tin foil to fit the sleve. It has two coils wrapped around zippo wick material. 6 drops of liquid gives me about one cigarette worth of drags and heavy fog. The thicker the liquid the better. I will be able to vape from now on wheter it is legal or not.

I have it performing just like my old tobacco pipe without the need to keep lighting it. And it smokes just like a pipe.

I'm totally impressed that you build ATOMIZERS!! Way to go! Even the pro modders aren't doing that AFAIK.

I just have one concern... back when I was smoking "things other than tobacco" (hem-hem) it used to be folk wisdom that burning tinfoil gave off poisonous fumes. If you're using tinfoil in the atomizer might that not be dangerous?