Fda news release

[abandonhope16]

I hear people reference this New Zealand study. I was able to briefly skim it and haven't really studied it that much; but it doesn't even seem like that great of a study. It just seems pretty vague to me.
Really there needs to be a study done by a unbiased, third party; preferably in the US and over a much greater period of time.

 

[TheIllustratedMan]

Please name an unbiased source who will pay for such a study to be done, and then ask him to go ahead and do it.

No matter what, someone is going to say "So and so funded the study, so it skews toward them." The only way you're going to combat that is if Ruyan, Smoore, ECA, end-users, the FDA, ACS, TBK, and so on all got together and funded one definitive study, asking the folks doing the study to make the conclusions, so that there is one final answer to the question "Is it all right for former smokers to use electronic cigarettes?"

As for me, after having seen this study and all the others that I've been scouring, I would vote a hearty "HELL YES!"

 

[jigtg]

VS Vapor isn't made in China. It's made in India.

You mean possibly in Delhi...? Umm. uhh. No pun intended but some basic testing would be welcome. If the factory is serious they might just as well come out of the closet as others have 1-2 years head start on this. Great to hear India is onboard though.

 

[Sar]

Actually, the problem is interpretation and selective disclosure of findings that are presented in a study. The best would be getting the raw data from the chemical analysis that was done and have few independent teams normalize the data and provide findings.

 

[quititllc]

Lets compare the TSNA levels in E-Cigs to tobacco products.

TSNA in SE E Cigs- NNN and NNK only detected in tobacco High and tobacco Low,
122.1-208 NANOGRAMS (thats billionths of a gram) per gram product weight.

TSNA in Marlboro Full Flavor cigarettes?
2.9 micrograms (millionths of a gram) per gram product weight

 

[quititllc]

My source on that info?

DOUBLEUDOUBLEUDOUBLEUDOT starscientific DOTCOM/404/stepanov tsna in.pdf

 

[quititllc]

These nitrosamines (carcinogens) in cigarettes are present at levels 10X more than what was found in electronic cigarettes.
TSNA in marlboro full flavor cigarettes in micrograms/gram product- 2.9
TSNA in SE found in only TWO SE cartridges in micrograms/gram product- .208

 

[Andy867]

Another thing to keep in mind is how the FDA has screwed up with how safe or not safe products are... Look at Fen phen and ephedrine. They were proud to announce how safe the products were and even rushed their approval label onto the products and then BAM!!! People started suffering strokes and some even died because of effects of the products. So who is to say we can even trust the FDA?

 

[DeFoerest]

The conspiracy theorists should be latching onto these results from the FDA.
Note: 1. I'm all for FDA regulation so I know I'm not inhaling something that will instantly kill me due to "accidental" contamination at the factory level. 2. I'm saddened that the tobacco extracts to get the nicotine and flavorings contain some of the carcinogens from the tobacco.
3. How biased is the media?!?!? Read the reports for yourself, and then read up on DEG. It is already used in tobacco. Where do you think the DEG came from? That's right, the extracts from the tobacco!!

It seems to me like someone said earlier, remove the tobacco extracts, go to pure synth nic and the problem is solved!!

I can't submit links yet, so google search:

Summary of Results: Laboratory Analysis of Electronic Cigarettes Conducted by the FDA.


Then search for:

Dietylene glycol wiki

 

[tmbrown327]

What if, for the sake of argument, e-cigs were exactly as dangerous as analogs, except for say, one thing, like tar? What would the tactic be then? The FDA doesn't regulate analogs due to their toxicity, even though they have an established right to do so now, so what if e-cigs are exactly like analogs except they didn't contain tar? Would the FDA then say that analogs are OK, but an exact simulation except for removal of tar is not OK? I don't think anyone, including the FDA can say they're MORE dangerous than analogs, right?

 

[Bones]

The conspiracy theorists should be latching onto these results from the FDA.
Note: 1. I'm all for FDA regulation so I know I'm not inhaling something that will instantly kill me due to "accidental" contamination at the factory level. 2. I'm saddened that the tobacco extracts to get the nicotine and flavorings contain some of the carcinogens from the tobacco.
3. How biased is the media?!?!? Read the reports for yourself, and then read up on DEG. It is already used in tobacco. Where do you think the DEG came from? That's right, the extracts from the tobacco!!

It seems to me like someone said earlier, remove the tobacco extracts, go to pure synth nic and the problem is solved!!

I can't submit links yet, so google search:

Summary of Results: Laboratory Analysis of Electronic Cigarettes Conducted by the FDA.


Then search for:

Dietylene glycol wiki

Yep all for making them as safe as possible - But - That is no excuse to make them sound as bad as analogs with statements like - They may be no safer than the tobacco cigarette they hope to replace - The one bit of truth that can be taken from the FDA study is what we have been saying all along - The E-cig is FAR safer than a tobacco cigarette - 4000+ Harmful Chemicals in HIGH concentration Vs. 3 in minute concentration -

FDA regulation can be a good thing but it only sets the rules and can NEVER rule out accidents or noncompliance - This is REAL LIFE practices we talk of - THERE ARE NO GUARANTIES! I know - Let's make a law that prohibits human error - ?

Also important to keep in mind that the test was done on 18 carts from 2 companies - There was no DEG found in Njoy's carts - That is so far from what is normally accepted as good science it makes my head spin - When was the last time any study was taken seriously with only 18 test subjects involved? FDA did not test these components for absorption or how they react with the the physiology - The supplier is expected to provide tens of thousands of tests and trials over a period of years to be able to make their claims - But - The FDA only has to glance at something out of the corner of it's eye to make theirs ???? - Still I am with you that there should be work done to make it as safe as possible and establish some guide for production - That does not seem to be the goal of the FDA in this case however - If it were their summary of the findings would not grossly exaggerate the negatives - "E-cigs are BAD - I saw it on TV" - The tail is wagging the dog -

 

[bmckenna]

I noticed a few pages back that editing the Wikipedia page was suggested, so I went ahead and did that. Don't know how long it will stick or if a citation is needed asides from the FDA report already cited:

old text:
However, laboratory analysis on two brands of electronic cigarette cartridges by the Division of Pharmaceutical Analysis of the US FDA found the presence of carcinogens and toxic chemicals such as diethylene glycol. [5]

new text:

However, laboratory analysis on two brands of electronic cigarette cartridges by the Division of Pharmaceutical Analysis of the US FDA found the presence of carcinogens in quantities similar to or less than the nicotine replacement inhaler Nicotrol and toxic chemicals such as diethylene glycol. [2]

i didn't say anything false...

 

[sherid]

If anyone fears what is in e cigarettes, they should not be using them. For those of you who feel that way, wait for the tests.

 

[Bones]

I noticed a few pages back that editing the Wikipedia page was suggested, so I went ahead and did that. Don't know how long it will stick or if a citation is needed asides from the FDA report already cited:

old text:
However, laboratory analysis on two brands of electronic cigarette cartridges by the Division of Pharmaceutical Analysis of the US FDA found the presence of carcinogens and toxic chemicals such as diethylene glycol. [5]

new text:

However, laboratory analysis on two brands of electronic cigarette cartridges by the Division of Pharmaceutical Analysis of the US FDA found the presence of carcinogens in quantities similar to or less than the nicotine replacement inhaler Nicotrol and toxic chemicals such as diethylene glycol. [2]

i didn't say anything false...

While I applaude your effort to change the Wiki -
That points out the problem with Wiki - It's not a factual reference source it's a collective HUNCH! While it can be a helpful tool for some things - too many use it as a subsitute for real research - I do not put much faith in a reference document that allows editing by the general public -

Sorry - nothing against you at all bmckenna your info is accurate - Just a little rant at the Wiki -

I might also suggest you add to this -

. . . and toxic chemicals such as diethylene glycol, in amounts similar or less than the FDA allowance for food products deemed safe for human consumption.

Like I said before though - 1 cart out of the 18 cart sample is poor eveidence to support either side in any serious scientific way -

 

[Robert]

What is this thing about the law changing on Sunday? I'm going to order more juice now.

This sucks, I couldn't stop constant day in day out 20-3- cigs a day. Ciuldn't surf the last 10 years cause my breathing is bad. After a month I feel so much better with my e- cig. They can take it out of my cold.....u no


This is all about money, the fda will stop us if they can. They work for RJ Renolds who has been trying to kill us all!


Going to stock up, need more juice. ATTy's and Batt shouldn't be banned could they?

Man is the most vicious animal on earth, put me against a wall and you'll see it first hand.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Another thing to keep in mind is how the FDA has screwed up with how safe or not safe products are... Look at Fen phen and ephedrine. They were proud to announce how safe the products were and even rushed their approval label onto the products and then BAM!!! People started suffering strokes and some even died because of effects of the products. So who is to say we can even trust the FDA?

Andy--you misunderstand how the FDA works in its appoval process--IT does not do the testing, it reviews the tests that are submitted by the Manufacuters---that is why when drugs like Fenphen, Vioxx and others are approved---based on the date that was submitted. Once the FDA is apprised that a drug has an unacceptable risk/benfit ratio---then the pull it. If people where harmed because of the drug and can prove that the drug manufacture skewed the studies, people who were damaged have a cause of action against the manufacture---not the FDA--they only review the studies, they do not do them.

Sun

 

[VaporPhreak]

Andy--you misunderstand how the FDA works in its appoval process--IT does not do the testing, it reviews the tests that are submitted by the Manufacuters---that is why when drugs like Fenphen, Vioxx and others are approved---based on the date that was submitted. Once the FDA is apprised that a drug has an unacceptable risk/benfit ratio---then the pull it. If people where harmed because of the drug and can prove that the drug manufacture skewed the studies, people who were damaged have a cause of action against the manufacture---not the FDA--they only review the studies, they do not do them.

Sun

Is it me, or does this seem so @$$-backwards from a logical process that its almost comical? FDA = F*ktards Doing (the) Asinine

 

[VaporPhreak]

Oh and need I mention the hypocrisy of the PACT Act or whatever its called? Cant order any tobacco online except for cigars! Goddess forbid the hypocritical politicians not be able to order their cigars!

 

[bmckenna]

While I applaude your effort to change the Wiki -
That points out the problem with Wiki - It's not a factual reference source it's a collective HUNCH! While it can be a helpful tool for some things - too many use it as a subsitute for real research - I do not put much faith in a reference document that allows editing by the general public -

Sorry - nothing against you at all bmckenna your info is accurate - Just a little rant at the Wiki -

I might also suggest you add to this -

. . . and toxic chemicals such as diethylene glycol, in amounts similar or less than the FDA allowance for food products deemed safe for human consumption.

Like I said before though - 1 cart out of the 18 cart sample is poor eveidence to support either side in any serious scientific way -

the only reason i didn't edit the wiki too much about the DEG is because 1. i definitely would've needed another source, and 2. i haven't read anything exact about the concentration. also, slanted statements get edited out, and i didn't want to present too slanted a view.

 

[Vapinginmyboots]

Reading this news gave me pause in my e-smoking and put me on the think. Then I realized quickly, before this news I considered this switch from cigs to e-cigs to be a use at my own risk situation. Upon further review of how this news changes my prospective on e-cigs, I have decided, well, im using e-cigs at my own risk.

I quit being mad at the FDA and used rational thought instead of emotion in recent weeks, ive also posted not long ago in a different thread that I wish they would do testing without banning these but that would be dreaming on my part. Well, look at the bright side. the good news is they ARE testing these instead of an all-out ban at this time and some of us should be happier about this than we are. They are even doing that study as to weather these are an effective way to quit smoking. Getting bad news is part of the process, and knowing what is in the juice is not a bad thing.

I think there should be widespread testing of e-juice by all the companies, and those that are found to contain bad toxins should recall ALL of their juice and replace it with non-toxin containing juice. That would be responsible business practice, as has been done with other products. It would be prohibitively expensive, but the stakes are very high here. My 2 cents