Fda news release

[quititllc]

yep all we need is some doctors with there head on straight to help convince the FDA that what they are doing is immoral and if not the FDA at least show the public the differences between real smoke and the vapor...but it needs to be scientific and placed in a detailed 3D video of smoke traveling through the lungs vs vapor traveling through the lungs....just a thought.....also show in a 3d video of all the chemical caponents of cigarettes and what each chemical can do to the body. then also show the eliquid chemical caponents....and its effects on the body.

While this is a valiant idea, three dimensional video is never going to happen.

Ultimately, what needs to be presented is a SIMPLE explanation why our beloved product is magnitudes safer than analog variety. Something using an easy visual to quantify the differences between the TSNAs found in PV cartridges and analog cigarettes.

Perhaps a demonstration in cigarettes- something like

" For every cigarette pictured here, there is one nanogram TSNA in a gram of analog cigarette tobacco (8000 cigarettes).
For every cigarette pictured here, there is one nanogram TSNA in a gram of electronic cigarette liquid ( very very few in comparison)."

 

[Kent C]

Kent, exactly. And it would not at all surprise me if the change in wording is an indirect way of being able to apply it to e-juice as they see fit. Even JC's juice, while reformulated to contain NO tobacco, may not be exempt if they can use the argument that unless it's synthetic nicotine, it is a "product of tobacco".

Unless they change the definition in the earlier law to which the amendment refers, then 'tobacco product' as: "a product that contains tobacco and is intended for human consumption." is still operative and any challenge would hold up in court. ejuice simply does not 'contain tobacco'.

You may be right that the wording used in the description - that the rather subtle change of nouns, basically, was directed at ecigs but they didn't redefine or modify that line of the underlying legislation - and frankly, one would think that they have to know that, and that if their intent was in fact to go after ecigs, that such redefiniton would have been a primary target in the amendment and it doesn't appear that it is.

Perhaps... and I'm just guessing here - they are aiming at the MYO industry with this one - because that is squarely in the bulleye here** - and while there may be another amendment in the future to target ecigs, as it is, a good lawyer could challlenge this one on that definition only and would have a good case in front of a judge - a jury of all rabid non-smokers might be a different story But then imagine one of us being on that jury.... hehe

**As you may know, the MYO industry took a big hit with the recent federal SCHIPS changes where the tax on a pound of MYO went from just over a dollar to over $25. Well for those vendors that didn't throw in the towel, they have a current 'workaround' because the pipe tobacco didn't take as big a hit in the tax @$2, as the MYO tobacco did. They began making the same flavors they had a cig tobacco in the 'pipe cut' and while it is a bit thicker it still stuffs in the major stuffing machines that exist. It's a 'loophole' from some people's view - I'm guessing they didn't want to impose on the 'professors' that smoke pipe at our universities...lol. It's analogous to some of the gun legislations that didn't want to impose on the 'hunters' so shotguns were exempted and the gun market responde with 'street sweepers' lol. And so it goes....

Anyway this new amendment closes that 'pipe cut' loop hole - although, I think someone noted, that there's a cigar loophole in there. (shakes head)...

 

[grimmer255]

While this is a valiant idea, three dimensional video is never going to happen.

Ultimately, what needs to be presented is a SIMPLE explanation why our beloved product is magnitudes safer than analog variety. Something using an easy visual to quantify the differences between the TSNAs found in PV cartridges and analog cigarettes.

Perhaps a demonstration in cigarettes- something like

" For every cigarette pictured here, there is one nanogram TSNA in a gram of analog cigarette tobacco (8000 cigarettes).
For every cigarette pictured here, there is one nanogram TSNA in a gram of electronic cigarette liquid ( very very few in comparison)."

hmmm now thats a good idea.....so you would have to vape a years worth of ejuice to equal to one cigarette.....hmmmmmm

 

[quititllc]

hmmm now thats a good idea.....so you would have to vape a years worth of ejuice to equal to one cigarette.....hmmmmmm

Something along those lines, but with easy, bold illustrations.

Here is one cigarette for every nanogram TSNA in analog cigarettes.

and here is one cigarette for every nanogram TSNAs in e-juice.

or the like.

Not a bad idea.

 

[souporvapor]

Let's see if this works.

Ok- So as of 7-26-09 the law where I live will classify me in a 'demographic' I've avoided for 51 years....because of my choice to use the USPS to obtain a product that has already changed my life.

Interesting I did not know that - and my last order should be rolling in within 72 hours of that RCW going into effect. Wondering - how will/does the USPS handle the 'no mailing products' rule. Seems they have enough challenge delivering the mail without adding the task of figuring out what's in a package.

The audio quality of this vid is not as great as others I found. I went with the fog for obvious relevance to subject matter.

My apologies for the digression into 'entertainment' - sometimes the release of a great rocky roll song and lyric does wonders for the soul.


Link posted just in case.
YouTube - JUDAS PRIEST "BREAKING THE LAW"@COMCAST CENTER-MANSFIELD, MA 7-7-09

30 Years of Smoking
Vaporized by my Screwdriver!​

 

[grimmer255]

thats a lot of smokes....i wounder how much i smoked thus far.

 

[grimmer255]

if your wounder i smoked 85,000 plus smokes up to quiting point....jeesh

 

[edlogic]

I've done a search on - e-cigs being safe, and find news channels with their damaging reports. I also see that very few people have left comments, more people need to start leaving comments I believe. Here's just one

FDA: electronic cigarettes aren't safe - KDVR

i was the 8th comment
i agree - there should be more

 

[edlogic]

While this is a valiant idea, three dimensional video is never going to happen.

Ultimately, what needs to be presented is a SIMPLE explanation why our beloved product is magnitudes safer than analog variety. Something using an easy visual to quantify the differences between the TSNAs found in PV cartridges and analog cigarettes.

Perhaps a demonstration in cigarettes- something like

" For every cigarette pictured here, there is one nanogram TSNA in a gram of analog cigarette tobacco (8000 cigarettes).
For every cigarette pictured here, there is one nanogram TSNA in a gram of electronic cigarette liquid ( very very few in comparison)."

well i am sure this is going to drive the peta people crazy

i thought of a good test

lets take 200 rats
divide them up in two groups of 100

then take 100 cartons of analogs

100 ecigs - each with 20 pre-filled cartridges
plenty of batteries or pass-through power

let the first 100 rats smoke analogs until they keel over
and see how many of the second 100 rats are still vaping

 

[DC2]

Link posted just in case.
YouTube - JUDAS PRIEST "BREAKING THE LAW"@COMCAST CENTER-MANSFIELD, MA 7-7-09

Wow, I can only imagine how much vaporized smoke juice the audience at that concert is inhaling.
Not to mention Rob Halford and his band.

 

[edlogic]

yep all we need is some doctors with there head on straight to help convince the FDA that what they are doing is immoral and if not the FDA at least show the public the differences between real smoke and the vapor...but it needs to be scientific and placed in a detailed 3D video of smoke traveling through the lungs vs vapor traveling through the lungs....just a thought.....also show in a 3d video of all the chemical caponents of cigarettes and what each chemical can do to the body. then also show the eliquid chemical caponents....and its effects on the body.

i don't think any of it will ever work - because ->

if logical reasoning like that worked then :

we would already have banned aspartame
man made co2 being responsible for global warming would be a joke
marijane would not be illegal

hmmm

gun possesion would be manditory
tobacco would only be allowed to be sold as organically pure and natural
same goes for food
the porous borders would be closed
whomever the heck LET or CAUSED 911 to happen would have been punished

ok sorry for running so far off topic - i got carried away - from being ticked off

 

[Silver]

--IT does not do the testing,..

--they only review the studies, they do not do them.

That was the impression I had as well. And yet... in this case they have done this testing on their own initiative ?! Doesn't that make you wonder ?? Does it not show how desperate they really are ?

Also, I have seen some links to the New Zealand studies in this thread, but from what I've been able to see these don't point to the most recent versions of this study. Here are the links to the most recent versions that I am aware of:

Health New Zealand Study - October 30th, 2008

Health New Zealand: Poster 5-11, 15th Annual Conference, Society for Research on Nicotine and Tobacco (SRNT) Dublin, April 30 2009; updated 27 May

Health New Zealand: Effect of an E-Cigarette on Cravings and Withdrawal, Acceptability and Nicotine Delivery: Randomised Cross-Over Trial.

Hope that helps,

Cheers,
Silver

 

[Kempton]

Well the biggy that p**ses most people off is the second hand smoke they have to breathe in. Up here Health Canada is on the third hand smoke bandwagon, that even the smell on your clothes after you come in harms others. So even the FDA's mouthpieces could not spin a second hand smoke issue where it could harm or even bother others. So who are we harming? No one, just some risk to ourselves perhaps, and don't forget the phony "young people" conspiracy which they don't even refer to as children anymore. I'm good for about a year right now and will stockpile a bit more, so wait and see. Sheep are sheep and I think there are more two legged varieties than four. For those who want to denegade you with the sensational headlines, just hit them with a few facts the FDA left out, and don't forget the FDA unable to provide a scare about second hand smoke.

 

[SharonLM]

Well the biggy that p**ses most people off is the second hand smoke they have to breathe in. Up here Health Canada is on the third hand smoke bandwagon, that even the smell on your clothes after you come in harms others. So even the FDA's mouthpieces could not spin a second hand smoke issue where it could harm or even bother others. So who are we harming? No one, just some risk to ourselves perhaps, and don't forget the phony "young people" conspiracy which they don't even refer to as children anymore. I'm good for about a year right now and will stockpile a bit more, so wait and see. Sheep are sheep and I think there are more two legged varieties than four. For those who want to denegade you with the sensational headlines, just hit them with a few facts the FDA left out, and don't forget the FDA unable to provide a scare about second hand smoke.

Well put and I so totally agree! Let's see, there is one found potentially harmful chemical found in 1 of 19 cartridges of the e-cigs and 4,000 harmful chemical agents in analogs. There is no second hand smoke with e-cigs and there is no smell on our clothing or our hair.

I truly think this is a no-brainer, but then I forget, the FDA has no common sense and don't use their brains.

 

[Alexandra]

Thanks, Silver. Great links. I've saved them and I'll read them tomorrow. Getting way too late to be on the forum. G-Nite!!
Thanks, again...
Ali-Florida

 

[The Doc]

ALL VAPERS need to DOWNLOAD A COPY OF THIS DOCUMENT RIGHT NOW and SAVE IT!!!

Please READ paragraph 1.7 of this U.S. Government Document!!!!!!

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp189-c1-b.pdf

I've NEVER HEARD of "Diethylene Glycol" being used in ANY vaping juices. That would be INSANE! That stuff crystallizes!

All my vaping juices use Propylene Glycol (PG) & Vegetable Glycol (VG), which were BOTH deemed as SAFE for human consumption. What kind of CRAP are they trying to pull here???

 

[The Doc]

FDA NEWS RELEASE

For Immediate Release: July 22, 2009
Media Inquiries: Siobhan DeLancey, 301-796-4668, siobhan.delancey@fda.hhs.gov
Consumer Inquiries: 888-INFO-FDA
FDA and Public Health Experts Warn About Electronic Cigarettes

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration today announced that a laboratory analysis of electronic cigarette samples has found that they contain carcinogens and toxic chemicals such as diethylene glycol, an ingredient used in antifreeze.
Electronic cigarettes, also called “e-cigarettes,” are battery-operated devices that generally contain cartridges filled with nicotine, flavor and other chemicals. The electronic cigarette turns nicotine, which is highly addictive, and other chemicals into a vapor that is inhaled by the user.
These products are marketed and sold to young people and are readily available online and in shopping malls. In addition, these products do not contain any health warnings comparable to FDA-approved nicotine replacement products or conventional cigarettes. They are also available in different flavors, such as chocolate and mint, which may appeal to young people.
Public health experts expressed concern that electronic cigarettes could increase nicotine addiction and tobacco use in young people. Jonathan Winickoff, M.D., chair of the American Academy of Pediatrics Tobacco Consortium and Jonathan Samet, M.D., director of the Institute for Global Health at the University of Southern California, joined Joshua Sharfstein, M.D., principal deputy commissioner of the FDA, and Matthew McKenna, M.D., director of the Office of Smoking and Health for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, to discuss the potential risks associated with the use of electronic cigarettes.
“The FDA is concerned about the safety of these products and how they are marketed to the public,” said Margaret A. Hamburg, M.D., commissioner of food and drugs.
Because these products have not been submitted to the FDA for evaluation or approval, at this time the agency has no way of knowing, except for the limited testing it has performed, the levels of nicotine or the amounts or kinds of other chemicals that the various brands of these products deliver to the user.
The FDA’s Division of Pharmaceutical Analysis analyzed the ingredients in a small sample of cartridges from two leading brands of electronic cigarettes. In one sample, the FDA’s analyses detected diethylene glycol, a chemical used in antifreeze that is toxic to humans, and in several other samples, the FDA analyses detected carcinogens, including nitrosamines. These tests indicate that these products contained detectable levels of known carcinogens and toxic chemicals to which users could potentially be exposed.
The FDA has been examining and detaining shipments of e-cigarettes at the border and the products it has examined thus far meet the definition of a combination drug-device product under the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act. The FDA has been challenged regarding its jurisdiction over certain e-cigarettes in a case currently pending in federal district court. The agency is also planning additional activities to address its concerns about these products.
Health care professionals and consumers may report serious adverse events (side effects) or product quality problems with the use of e-cigarettes to the FDA's MedWatch Adverse Event Reporting program either online, by regular mail, fax or phone.

• Online: MedWatch: The FDA Safety Information and Adverse Event Reporting Program
• Regular Mail: use postage-paid FDA form 3500 available at: Download Forms and mail to MedWatch, 5600 Fishers Lane, Rockville, MD 20852-9787
• Fax: (800) FDA-0178
• Phone: (800) FDA-1088

FIRST TIME I'VE EVER HEARD OF DIETHYLENE GLYCOL BEIING USED IN VAPING JUICES!! THAT CRAP CRYSTALLIZES!!!

I ONLY USE PROPYLENE GLYCOL (PG) & VEGETABLE GLYCOL (VG). OUR OWN GOVERNMENT DEEMED PG as SAFE FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION.....YEARS AGO. ALL VAPERS NEED TO READ PARAGRAPH 1.7 OF THIS U.S. GOVERNMENT DOCUMENT, THEN SAVE A COPY OF IT!!!

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp189-c1-b.pdf

 

[Coco]

let me tell all people in the forum about what happend in China now after FDA released it's statement on July 23
1. All big order (including NJOY's )from America are stop now, waiting the new instruction or information from US
2. All ecig manufacturer are confused now, and worrying about that FDA will finally ban ecig, even FDA don't ban ecig now, it will be the strongle effection for all ecig market in the world
3. The ecig manufacturer's other material supplier are not happy with ecig manufacturer now, because ecig manufactur don't have a clear future
4. Big e-liquid supplier revising their liquid now, in fact, most e-liquid from the big e-liquid supplier don't have diethylene glycol any more, but for nitrosamines, some e-liquid manufacturer are testing whether without it is OK, some manufacturer can offer the e-liquid without nitrosamines, and some manufacturer will also have an announcement that their liquid will don't have diethylene glycol and nitrosamines, I will post a one here if I have and if I could
5. ecig manufacturer still worry: even e-liquid don't have these two material, does FDA believe? will FDA testing the new cartridges again? even they test, will they release the new testing result to the public?..

 

[eric]

Thank you very much for sharing this with us, Coco.

 

[edlogic]

let me tell all people in the forum about what happend in China now after FDA released it's statement on July 23
1. All big order (including NJOY's )from America are stop now, waiting the new instruction or information from US
2. All ecig manufacturer are confused now, and worrying about that FDA will finally ban ecig, even FDA don't ban ecig now, it will be the strongle effection for all ecig market in the world
3. The ecig manufacturer's other material supplier are not happy with ecig manufacturer now, because ecig manufactur don't have a clear future
4. Big e-liquid supplier revising their liquid now, in fact, most e-liquid from the big e-liquid supplier don't have diethylene glycol any more, but for nitrosamines, some e-liquid manufacturer are testing whether without it is OK, some manufacturer can offer the e-liquid without nitrosamines, and some manufacturer will also have an announcement that their liquid will don't have diethylene glycol and nitrosamines, I will post a one here if I have and if I could
5. ecig manufacturer still worry: even e-liquid don't have these two material, does FDA believe? will FDA testing the new cartridges again? even they test, will they release the new testing result to the public?..

at least half the time - we can't believe our own government or the fda

so what makes you think we are going to believe any of you over there ?

your industries have a very bad reputation around the world and it makes perfect sense why we would not trust them - i think that might be a big reason for some of this recent trouble with ecigs being given a bad image

tell your manufacturers to PROVE IT ! and if they don't do it very soon - this whole thing may be locked down forever

you say ' most eliquid don't have deg in it right now '

THANKS A LOT FOR NOTHING !

those people put poison in consumables and then they wonder why they get put in prison and put to death ?

it is their own fault if they get shut down if they are putting deg in the juice !

i have more than 10 bottles of juice from 4 different places

now i wonder which ones are most and which ones are poison ?

the best thing they could do - is destroy every drop of juice that has even the slightest bit of deg in it and DO NOT SHIP IT TO CONSUMERS ! ! !

otherwise if any more tests are done on tainted juice then it will be GAME OVER - do not pass GO - do not collect 200 dollars and hand over the dice - you don't get to roll any more .