FDA to regulate e-cig as tobacco

[6pointprime]

Tonight on Click, Bang! I will have the conclusion of my interview with Jacob Sullum, Senior Editor at Reason Magazine.

Also, contest giveaways, and nonsense!

Chat is open and music is playing, come on in!

VapeTV: VapeTV's VapeTVLive

-Russ

 

[Maxwell_Edison]

It was a good show - thanks so much to Kev for asking me co-host with him!

I did get to hear this show. It was very good, very interesting, my worry is the catch-22 with the big tobacco players. They have the funds and lawyers to help regulate the e-cig failrly, but what if they also intend to monoplize the industry? Profits always seem to lead to corrpution somewhere down the road. I'd hate to see all the Mom and Pop stores go under and jobs lost in the battle with the FDA. Also don't understand why these would be considered tobacco products if liquid was zero nic.

 

[Ceegary]

One of the more interesting strategies for Mom & Pop juice stores would be to transition to flavorings only and allow just a few players to go through the hoops to be nic suppliers. A number are already starting to do that. For example, Want2Vape flavors are available at Extreme vaping. We'll all have to adapt as the land shifts. Jack be nimble, Jack be quick...

 

[Secti0n31]

The only concern I have about Big tobacco getting into the e-cig game is the good old fashioned hipster motto: "But it'll make it way too mainstream!" Sure I want everyone to know about the e-cigs and how well the good ones work, but I don't want it to get blown up to the point where it can't be "forgotten" by the FDA for a couple years while they do their testing.

I had a funky dream last night about NJoy putting some "chemicals" in their nic liquid and ruining it for everybody because NJoy was the only brand the FDA tested. I know, stupid dream.

 

[Maxwell_Edison]

One of the more interesting strategies for Mom & Pop juice stores would be to transition to flavorings only and allow just a few players to go through the hoops to be nic suppliers. A number are already starting to do that. For example, Want2Vape flavors are available at Extreme Vaping. We'll all have to adapt as the land shifts. Jack be nimble, Jack be quick...

Jack sat on a candle stick...

...couldn't resist....

 

[rothenbj]

Jack sat on a candle stick...

...couldn't resist....

That has recently been updated to "Jack sat on his Nicostik"

 

[Maddoktor2]

My only question is, how can the synthetic nicotine used in some juices be considered a tobacco product if it's not even derived from it?

 

[DC2]

My only question is, how can the synthetic nicotine used in some juices be considered a tobacco product if it's not even derived from it?

I am pretty sure that nobody is using synthetic nicotine.
From what I hear it is far too expensive to make.

 

[Maxwell_Edison]

I've discovered 'the powers the be' can do anything they want - regardless of facts or logic, no - inspite of facts and logic. This is no more smoking than using an asthma inhaler is smoking, sucking a pencil end, or chewing a flavored tooth pick.

 

[DC2]

I've discovered 'the powers the be' can do anything they want - regardless of facts or logic, no - inspite of facts and logic.

But wait, are you sure?

CASAA has been teaming up with various forces, including individual vapers, to stop bans and effect change.
And the results have been very much positive.

You would think that we are powerless, and you would think that nobody cares or listens.
But that does not seem to be the case.

We need to band together, and fight for what is right.
And the idea that it doesn't matter is being proven wrong as each day passes.

Because we do matter when we make our voices heard.
We are gaining ground every day, and we are changing the status quo.

Don't give up, and don't give in.
Join the fight.

 

[Maxwell_Edison]

But wait, are you sure?

CASAA has been teaming up with various forces, including individual vapers, to stop bans and effect change.
And the results have been very much positive.

You would think that we are powerless, and you would think that nobody cares or listens.
But that does not seem to be the case.

We need to band together, and fight for what is right.
And the idea that it doesn't matter is being proven wrong as each day passes.

Because we do matter when we make our voices heard.
We are gaining ground every day, and we are changing the status quo.

Don't give up, and don't give in.
Join the fight.

OK -lol -I'll rephrase that to TRY to do what they want to do. A great deal of gratitude to CASAA !!

 

[Maxwell_Edison]

I wonder if it's possible to get the nicotine fron egg plants, I hear it's loaded with nicotine. Now that would put a spin on things. I know it's hard to compete with tobacco for nic though, but just for kicks, egg plant. And since nicotine is in tomatoes, potatoes and other veggies, all the more reason to challenge the ''it's a tobacco product'' thing.

 

[Maddoktor2]

I am pretty sure that nobody is using synthetic nicotine.
From what I hear it is far too expensive to make.

I know for a fact that with the exception of their Tobacco Pure juice, Volcano uses synthetic nicotine in all their other USA blend juices. Given that, I doubt that they're the only ones, and if so, maybe they shouldn't be - it's a loophole worth looking into, at the very least.
Granted, their juices are more expensive (at $12.99 per 15ml), but other vendors I've seen are just as, if not more expensive, and if it creates an exploitable loophole by using a completely non-tobacco/non-organic based synthetic nicotine, then maybe it's an option worth considering?
Personally, I'd rather pay more for juice than pay the taxes on tobacco products, and even at $26 per ml, that's still a heckuva lot cheaper than the equivalent amount of cigarettes when the state and federal cigarette taxes are added on (not to mention a whole lot healthier!).
I vape around 1-2ml a day - that means that 30ml lasts me anywhere from 2 weeks to a month. Frankly, I'd rather pay $30 every 2 weeks (with shipping figured in) than the $70+ a week I was paying per carton for generics.

Just my ...

 

[DC2]

I know for a fact that with the exception of their Tobacco Pure juice, Volcano uses synthetic nicotine in all their other USA blend juices.

If true, that would be somewhat revolutionary news.
Do you have any links to provide?

 

[rolygate]

In that case Volcano are the only ones doing so, as far as we know. This rumor keeps coming up again and again, but there is no substance to it. It was used by some Suppliers when the FDA was attacking hard, to try and get around their reasoning.

Just ask for the proof - you won't get any.

Synthetic nicotine has only 50% of the effect of organic nic, so you have to use twice as much, plus the cost is at least ten times that of organic nic, and there has been no safety research for human use at all. I find it extremely hard to believe it is being used since you could buy absolutely pure pharma grade nic in the US from a big name manufacturer at a fraction of the cost.

Someone using synthetic nic would need to charge $20 per 15ml, plus they have no idea what the safety profile is. What exactly would the perceived benefit be?

[edit]
The purest pharma grade nic at the highest cost reported to me is $1,800 per barrel. Synthetic nic would be a lot more than that. There does not seem to be any benefit to using it, and several negatives. It might even be cheaper to obtain it from other vegetable sources than tobacco.

 

[Thulium]

I wonder if it's possible to get the nicotine fron egg plants, I hear it's loaded with nicotine. Now that would put a spin on things. I know it's hard to compete with tobacco for nic though, but just for kicks, egg plant. And since nicotine is in tomatoes, potatoes and other veggies, all the more reason to challenge the ''it's a tobacco product'' thing.

Nicotine content in Eggplant | Panlasang Pinoy

It would take over 20lbs of eggplant to replace the nicotine in a single cigarette. Whatever methods they're using now to extract nicotine from tobacco seem to be quite effective anyway: Pharmaceutical grade nicotine like we use in e-cigs seems to contain only about one half of one nanogram per milligram of nicotine. (1ng = .000001mg)

 

[ChuckB]

I don't really have a link, but from what I understand, (which of course is not proof) eXtremeVaping uses synthetic nic, and what I've heard on the chat with Volcano is that other than the Tobacco Pure, the rest of their USA juices are synthetic.

 

[Maddoktor2]

If true, that would be somewhat revolutionary news.
Do you have any links to provide?

Working on getting some now - I'll get back to you with them as soon as I can.

 

[PatrickReza]

but there are going to be crazy taxes and maybe even banning on ecig shipping!? :/

 

[DC2]

Basically, tobacco products are supposed to be taxed according to the degree of harm involved.

I assume these are the current Federal Excise Taxes...
TTBGov Tax and Fee Rates

Tobacco Products          1000 units      Pack of 20
Small Cigarettes            $50.33          $1.01
Large Cigarettes           $105.69          $2.11
Small Cigars                $50.33          $1.01
 
Tobacco Products              1 lb.       Tin or Pouch
Pipe Tobacco                 $2.8311        $0.1769
Chewing Tobacco              $0.5033        $0.0315
Snuff                        $1.51          $0.0944
Roll-your-own Tobacco       $24.78          $1.5488

Electronic cigarettes should be taxed at rates comparable to snuff and snus.

That doesn't mean they won't try to do something outrageous and without justification.
But it will be up to all of us to fight to make sure everyone is, at the very least, properly educated.