FDA to regulate e-cig as tobacco

[Fumes]

Ive watched the FDA in their attempt to remove and classify all supplements/food nutrients as toxins. Can you imagine what kind of sick .......s are the FDA?
Im sorry folks, but the FDA can be counted on to do the worst. They can insert legislation, (at any time and in any bill) to circumvent anything a judge or anyone else has to say.
So far so good, but I am stocked with enuff juice and ecigs to last me for years n yrs to come.
I dont care what they doo.

 

[Desert Willow]

I like the new classification, I am happy.
I remain guarded tho, I agree that we all need to remain vigilant.
It's not over yet.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Ive watched the FDA in their attempt to remove and classify all supplements/food nutrients as toxins. Can you imagine what kind of sick .......s are the FDA?
Im sorry folks, but the FDA can be counted on to do the worst. They can insert legislation, (at any time and in any bill) to circumvent anything a judge or anyone else has to say.
So far so good, but I am stocked with enuff juice and ecigs to last me for years n yrs to come.
I dont care what they doo.

We should demand that congress de-fund the FDA.
They seem to be doing all they can to get us all back on analogs so we can pay, "Our fair share," of tax revenue.

 

[MaxUT]

Whatever happened to Liberty? You know, the concept that free citizens can make their own decisions about their lives?

More and more, government seems to believe that they OWN US. We're the peasants, they're the nobility.

I don't know about you, but I've about had enough from these self-serving "public servants".

 

[GIMike]

So, if sales are allowed to continue as they are, but only if they can tax it like they have cigarettes, where we'll be paying $50 for a 5 ml bottle of tobacco, menthol, or unflavored e-liquid, will you continue to use it?

 

[Bill Godshall]

Yesterday's announcement by the FDA is without any doubt the most important victory in the world for e-cigarettes, e-liquid, vendors, consumers, smokers and tobacco harm reduction.

It was also a humiliating defeat for tobacco/nicotine prohibitionists, drug companies, and cigarettes.

So I don't understand the many doom and gloom postings.

It will be at least several months before the FDA proposes any regulations for e-cigarettes (and all other currently unregulated tobacco products), and the process is likely to take one or two years (before any regulations are approved). There will be many opportunities to participate in the process (hearings & public comments), and the burden of proof is on the FDA to demonstrate that any proposed regulation will benefit public health before it can be approved.

Since there is no evidence that e-cigarettes have harmed any users, since there is no evidence that youth use the products, since there is lots of evidence that e-cigarettes are less hazardous than cigarettes, and since there is lots of evidence that e-cigarettes have helped many smokers quit or reduce cigarette consumption, it will be very difficult for the FDA to impose unwarranted regulations.

In the mean time, it's GAME ON, as e-cigarettes can now be truthfully marketed as far less hazardous smokefree alternatives to cigarettes (as the modified risk provision and all other Chapter IX regulations in the FSPTCA don't apply to e-cigarettes).

If e-cigarette sales/consumption continues to double, triple, quadruple in the next year (as I suspect it will), we'll have even more folks to advocate against unwarranted regulations, against state/local sales ban proposals, and against state/local usage restrictions.

We're now in the driver's seat, while FDA/CTFK/ACS/AHA/ALA/ALF and the drug companies are devastated and licking their wounds.

 

[Tallulah]

Good question, GIMike. Does the FDA regulating PVs as a tobacco product mean states now can slap on tobacco taxes on the juice?

 

[bander68]

My initial takes are:
-the days of cheap juice are going to end soon. That $15 bottle of juice will be $50 once the govt starts taxing it as a tobacco product.
-places we can vape now will soon be restricted. My workplace (a public school) has a clearly worded policy about tobacco products. I am now violating that policy when I vape in my classroom during my off-period.
-if they regulate liquids and only allow "govt approved" vendors who make liquids according to their guidelines, many of our favorite vendors and their unique flavors will cease to exist. I hope that they are willing to post their recipes online if it gets that far.
-i find myself wanting to dig out my copy of "1984" and read it again, or better yet...
-listen to "2112" by Rush. "Attention all planets of the Solar Federation....We have assumed control. We have assumed control. We have assumed control..."

 

[Sandfury]

What I would like to know is how (if an e-cig is a reduced harm alternative) the anyone (FDA/Fed/States) could even push the kind of taxes on them that they do with cigarettes? To my understanding cigarettes are taxed heavily due to the associated costs of medical expenses and what not. Is my logic off on this?

 

[GIMike]

Sandfury, I would say yes and no. WE know that there's a huge difference. But the main thing is, the taxes we're not paying by not smoking are not going into the pockets of the politicians. As more smokers switch, that's less and less money they're getting. So, in wanting that money back, they'll do what they do best. Create new taxes....

 

[Alžběta Madragana]

All this is very interesting. Right now, I'm at the point where I can vape all the e-juice I want - purchased my own PG & VG - no prob there. I can always mod my own vaping rig. Only thing I would be needing is cartos.
So let them go ahead and do all their silly-... stuff on this - my own personal opinion is: what is the $$ amount for BOTH Big Tobacco and Big Government? That is what is going to drive all of this..
Big Tobacco - loses $$ because I no longer buy their products.
Big Government loses $$ because I no longer pay the included Taxes on tobacco products.
Big Tobacco and Big Government are ....-BUDDIES.
So it's going to be an interesting ride to watch them squirm and see how they can manipulate the Legal System to maximize the $$ leaving the pockeets of us vapers and into their coffers.
"Keep on with this .... and you'll be sorry!" (CJ, from GTA San Andreas when he's fighting the police)..

 

[Bill Godshall]

CTFK's press release trying to spin yesterday's huge loss by FDA, CTFK and drug companies is at
FDA Acts to Protect Public Health by Extending Authority over Tobacco Products - Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids

Those who have posted notes complaining about imminent taxation should sober up and realize that US Congress and State Legislatures have always had the legal authority to tax e-cigarettes (and any other product they desire).

And while they're sobering up, perhaps the tax protesters can inform the rest of us why they'd prefer the FDA banning e-cigarettes (as that's what NJOY's court victory prevented).

 

[GIMike]

What I see happening is the tobacco companies going to the individuals making e-juices and buying them out for $10,000 a piece and then turning it back into a monopoly to make their millions back by making it illegal to make/sell your own e-juice just like they did with the tobacco plant

Not saying I'd rather ban them than have them taxed. Huge difference there. If we had to make a choice and our only option was taxation or outlawing them, obviously we'd go with taxation. I know I'm not the only one who jumped on the e-cigarette bandwagon because it was a cheaper alternative. Sure, the health aspects are great. But the cost was my main and only reason for switching. If they making smoking an e-cig no different from an analog cost-wise and where you can use it, why would I continue? It's much easier to carry around a pack of smokes and a lighter than dealing with the pains of the e-cig. I'm still young, I'll deal with my health issues later just like those older folks here who learned their mistakes the hard way too.

 

[Bill Godshall]

An updated version of yesterday's AP article (with quotes from NJOY and Blu Cigs) is at
Tobacco rules apply to electronic smokes - The Boston Globe

 

[Slickstick]

What I see happening is the tobacco companies going to the individuals making e-juices and buying them out for $10,000 a piece and then turning it back into a monopoly to make their millions back by making it illegal to make/sell your own e-juice just like they did with the tobacco plant

Not saying I'd rather ban them than have them taxed. Huge difference there. If we had to make a choice and our only option was taxation or outlawing them, obviously we'd go with taxation. I know I'm not the only one who jumped on the e-cigarette bandwagon because it was a cheaper alternative. Sure, the health aspects are great. But the cost was my main and only reason for switching. If they making smoking an e-cig no different from an analog cost-wise and where you can use it, why would I continue? It's much easier to carry around a pack of smokes and a lighter than dealing with the pains of the e-cig. I'm still young, I'll deal with my health issues later just like those older folks here who learned their mistakes the hard way too.

I would pay $2.00 per ml before I would go back to smoking.

 

[GIMike]

$2 per is fine, but what about $10 per ml? That would be about the equivilant of taxation on cigs.

 

[tfbncc]

I have to agree with GIMike. The biggest reason cigarettes are still legal is because tobacco brings in BILLIONS of dollars in taxes for both the feds and state govs. They've nipped around the edges with smoking legislation for decades, placating the anti smoking crowd. But kill one of their biggest cash cows? I don't think so.

So along comes the E-cig. Something radically new that does not fit in any readily recognized category and it is a big threat to the taxes that the gov collects. They are quite literally doubling in use every year since they hit our shores. They are more effective than any other nicotine replacement therapy, don't require a doctor's prescription, easy to learn, taste better, and so far unregulated by any gov agency.

They are losing money and they are not happy. So, if they can't stop them, now they will have to manufacture reasons to tax them higher than just regular sales tax. And I think it will start happening sooner than most people expect. We may not have months. They may already have plans that they think will work, so they give in to the judge's order quietly and within a month or so, they introduce new proposed legislation for some spurious reason that may sound reasonable, but will in fact open the door to the gov levying taxes on all e-cig related equipment and supplies.

Just look at what happened to the taxes on pipe tobacco and roll your own tobacco and supplies. There really wasn't any need to tax them higher than what they were a year ago, but because it was seen as an oversight by the gov in their quest for more money, the taxes were raised anyway.

Watch for the same to happen to the e-cig. We need to fight back now. We need to get as much public coverage of e-cigs as possible. We need to change the sound bites that every news agency uses. I want the 2009 FDA report discredited and publicly shown for the lying piece of propaganda that it was. I want money trails exposed to public scrutiny. We HAVE to get the public's sympathies on our side, or we will lose this war.

 

[Bill Godshall]

Per GIMIke's postings, I've been urging Philip Morris and Reynolds to begin marketing e-cigarettes (and many other smokefree tobacco/nicotine alternatives) for many years, and I just met with folks at Philip Morris several weeks ago once again urging them to do so ASAP citing yesterday's decision by the FDA (which I correctly predicted).

While both tobacco companies (and probably others) are likely to begin marketing e-cigarettes (and other smokefree tobacco/nicotine alternatives), which will be very good for the e-cigarette industry, they're years behind the entrepreneurs who have been selling the products.

 

[Sandfury]

Not complaining about being taxed, simply asking how they might be able to tax it the same as a cigarette. I am actually very happy about this turn of events. I was just telling my wife how good things always happen around my birthday.

 

[rothenbj]

People relax! What will be will be, but there is a lot of time to enjoy the present. It's going to take a long time for the FDA to develop regulations for the liquid. If we are smart, we will get the PV separated in this subject since it is a consumer item much like a pipe is a consumer item. When you talk about taxes you are talking about legislation in various levels of government.

It will be difficult to excessively tax the liquid if there is little evidence of harm associated with vaping. Remember, most of these exorbitant tax increases were passed based on the health risks of smoking and the sales pitch from ?non-profit?"health" associations that this was an effective tool to get people to quit. It will be a harder sales pitch to arbitrarily tax a product that has not been shown to carry any significant risk. Besides, the government has already headed toward their next cash cow, the obesity problem. It will require a less drastic tax basis on many more products used by many more people and certainly on products that all children consume and again can be based on health reasons. Of course, it also may effect results at the polls so you never know.