First DIY attempt = epic fail

[Kabooma]

So ..

I bought 50/50/18mg base and a bunch of flavourart from ecigexpress... got my science kit at the local drug store, and started my mix tonight. First attempt- 5ml base, 10 drops amaretto-almond. Nada. Tastes like unflavored base. Added 5 drops, remixed, cleaned clearomizer, still nada. Decided maybe I just can't taste amaretto or something. Moved to Royal tobacco flavor.. mixed 20 drops in 5ml base. Taste something, but it's so faint it might as well be base. ARGH. Moved to cherry.. mixed 20 drops in 5ml base, nothing. went to 40 drops, still nothing. Zero flavor.

What am I doing wrong? I added more drops to the royal and it tastes a hair stronger, but still tastes like 95% base. help!

 

[Vash]

A lot of juices need to steep.Also to little flavoring or too much can be a problem.Try putting them in some hot water for like 20 mins and shake them and put them back in the water and then shake again .That might help

 

[Renolizzie]

Too much flavoring, maybe. 20 drops is 1 ml so you are at something like 20% flavor and going up. Try half that and see what happens.

Of course drops vary but my dropper does 20 drops per ml.

 

[n19htmare]

UPDATE: I decided to add 5% banana creme to the 20% peach. From just over a day of steep, the vape is SO MUCH better. The flavor is actually GOOD , kinda got a bit fruity and reminds me of juicy fruit gum, but the vape itself is good. Decent throat hit and no burning nasty norstril it was leaving before.

So it seems steeping is almost a requirement for most flavors.

The Strawberry kiwi didn't turn out too well (ripe strawberry)...tastes very cough syrupish.

So now that I got a hang of it....... time to get some more flavors.

 

[Kabooma]

Ok guys, I spent some time over the weekend experimenting as well as discussing it with a veteran in private chat- Here's my update:

I bought 8 flavor concentrates. 5 of them were flavourart, the rest were various.

As a note, it's been mentioned in several threads that while steeping most flavors will improve the overall taste, especially with tobacco flavorings, that the mix should still be the same amount of flavor, and as a general rule, that if a flavor is terrible after mixing, steeping generally isn't going to make it great. Most flavors start good, then become great after steeping.

I did start in my OP by using 5 drops per ml, then 8, then 10. With each test, the flavor just wasn't present. It was not that it was bad, it was just non-existent. I kept adding more flavor just to find the line in the sand, so to speak. With most of the flavourarts, the flavor never presented itself. The smell tests even failed. The flavor was there, but so faint and diluted that it just failed. This did not change.

HOWEVER, one of the flavors I got was the winston churchill tobacco from hangsen - and that flavor was excellent at 10 drops per 1ml. I made two 15ml batches of it, one with a drop of mint per ml, and one with 2 drops of clove per ml. Both came out good, and will most likely get better over a few days of steeping.

The problem seems to be that either there is a serious QC problem at flavourart, the reseller, or there's intentional diluting / ripping off going on here. I find it hard to believe that flavourart themselves would have such a colossal QC failure, and not do a recall, so it really bears down on the vendor... but there's no good reason I can think of why they would be messing with the concentrates...

I guess one issue is that these aren't factory sealed, no tamper-proofing of the containers.. it's plausible that a vendor could be watering them down with some form of solution.

I've also noticed that the base I ordered was a 50/50 pg/vg mix of 18mg nic. I've ordered other pre-mixed juices, also 50/50, at 18mg nic (from other vendors), and it's just too much, it hurts my throat, and I know I need to go down to 12. But the base I got from these guys? Nope, doesn't hurt my throat. If anything, it's kind of weak, a lot of vapor with little TH. I'm also of the opinion that they are not adding the level of nic they claim to.

In the end, I'm not going to go buy a science kit to test everything, I'm going to go find another vendor with higher quality product. It's a shame, this vendor came recommended, but it's pretty evident that something isn't right with this vendor, and the veteran I've discussed it with in private has confirmed that his flavourart purchases recently from this vendor have also been weak and/or diluted.

So .. that's that.

 

[Renolizzie]

Wow, okay, sorry to hear that this happened to you. Let us know about your future endeavors Love to hear of your experiences with a different company.

 

[the_vape_nerd]

I'm going to say a few things here not just for you but they are just some rules for newbs:

1. PAY ATTENTION HERE, this is the most important and crucial piece of info you are going to receive. Get the Breaktru calculator. Get it now. Do not attempt to half-... it with some other program or trying the math on your own. It's a wonderful program, will save you time and will yield consistent results. So say it with me again, GET THE BREAKTRU CALCULATOR. Don't just get it. Take an hour or so and figure out exactly what each field does. There are stickies here that explain it.

2. Do not measure "drops". This is not going to provide you with any kind of consistency or give you a true reading of how much flavor is going in. Get a pipette pump or an assortment of syringes and do your mixing by the right levels. Down to .1 of a ml.

3. DO NOT buy your nic in a mix of 50/50 until you have some experience with final ratios. For most newbs, you should be buying your nic in 100% PG. This is because it allows you more freedom in the final ratio. You pure VG folks are exempted obviously.

4. Stick to the recommended vendors here at ECF. I will not recommend one here, but suffice it to say, that paying a bit more for a thing normally results in that thing being of better quality. I'm not saying it is always true, but it's a general rule.

5. This one is for the OP specifically. I do not find the Flavor Art line works well for most of us Americans. They are a european company an surely there's a niche market for their flavors, but to the American pallette there's just something different or off in their flavors. I like ecigexpress's line of flavors the most. The TPA/TFA flavors to me have a problem of tasting chemically. Not all of them but a good bit of them. I'd stick with ecig-express flavors, Capella's flavors, Tasty Puff and LorAnn (though you normally need high amounts of flavor in this last one).

 

[Hoosier]

I'm going to disagree with nearly everything the_vape_nerd said.

There are plenty of great calculators out there. I use Scubabatdan's calculator in the sticky's, v13, and since it is an spreadsheet I can modify it if I want. I think it is best if you learn the math and use a calculator then use your knowledge of the math to doublecheck the calculator's results just in case you happen to put in Amount of Juice To Be Made in where you should have entered Target Nicotine and didn't catch it the first time. If you know the math, it is much less likely that you'll make a mistake with nicotine.

Measuring flavors in drops can work, but note that when you switch over to pipettes and/or syringes that you'll probably have to refigure all your recipes because drops are not precise. I mostly use syringes for flavorings that are marked every 0.02ml and they may have an accuracy error of up to 0.02ml, but I always use syringes for PG, VG, and nicotine because drops for these things are not only a pain, but you're just guessing unless you've calibrated all your droppers with the individual components in which case you might be kinda' close. If your nicotine base is the same as the vendor juice you've been buying, then it doesn't really matter as your nic will be lower than what you have been vaping after being diluted by flavoring and most doing this method are not after repeatability.

I could care less about final PG/VG ratios. I use the Little Bit, Some, Bunch method and it works well for me. If you're the type to be really concerned about final PG/VG ratios then learn the math. Plot your must-have PG/VG ratio with your other bases, blended or not, and figure out how much "wiggle room" you have and buy base accordingly.

Sticking with vendors here on ECF isn't a bad thing. If you branch out, please report what you discover back here. Sometimes we find new things this way and sometimes we find places to be avoided. If you are going in a different way than others, understand that you're blazing a new trail.

I usually recommend Capella's for newbies because they don't usually hit levels 7 & 8 which makes them easier to learn with. I make a number of great recipes with a large variety of flavorings including TPA/TFA, FA, and LorAnn's, among others, the problem many people have with mixing is that you could have 2 flavorings from the same company and one is strong at 1 drop in 30ml while the other needs 30% to taste right. (And if we're talking about TPA/TFA's Kona, then I say 1 drop in 30ml is too damn high. That stuff hurts just to look at it. But some folks love it...so what do I know?)

I bring up my take to point out another thing about mixing. The_vape_nerd does things differently than I do and _nerd's way is just as correct and right as my way. The best way is the way that works best for you. Experiment. Have Fun. Learn ways to not do what you wanted to do then give it to your RL vaping friend as a practical joke before you give him/her a new atty in appreciation for the laugh.

 

[curt9733]

In addition to the above listed calculators, check out this one: DIY E-Liquid (E-Juice) Mixing Station!

 

[curt9733]

I agree with the_vape_nerd in that 50/50 is more difficult to work with depending on what ratio you want to end up with. If you want to end up with 50/50, it will not be possible using flavor extracts that are diluted in pg. Also, you may want to consider a higher nic level, because you will pay relatively less for it. Look at Wizard Labs. I personally like 100% pg @ 60mg/ml nic, but that MUST be handled carefully. You might consider 100% pg @ 24mg/ml and get some PG and VG from http://www.essentialdepot.com. It is quite cheap. Wizard labs also has flavorings, but these are all TFA, which some do not like. No matter what you use, proper lab equipment is a must, because different materials have different droplet sizes (VG, PG, Water and PGA (Everclear).

 

[darkhood]

ecx is watering down their flavors now...i sent em too much business lol. find somewhere else to buy FA stuff.

 

[the_vape_nerd]

I'm going to disagree with nearly everything the_vape_nerd said.

There are plenty of great calculators out there. I use Scubabatdan's calculator in the sticky's, v13, and since it is an spreadsheet I can modify it if I want. I think it is best if you learn the math and use a calculator then use your knowledge of the math to doublecheck the calculator's results just in case you happen to put in Amount of Juice To Be Made in where you should have entered Target Nicotine and didn't catch it the first time. If you know the math, it is much less likely that you'll make a mistake with nicotine.

Measuring flavors in drops can work, but note that when you switch over to pipettes and/or syringes that you'll probably have to refigure all your recipes because drops are not precise. I mostly use syringes for flavorings that are marked every 0.02ml and they may have an accuracy error of up to 0.02ml, but I always use syringes for PG, VG, and nicotine because drops for these things are not only a pain, but you're just guessing unless you've calibrated all your droppers with the individual components in which case you might be kinda' close. If your nicotine base is the same as the vendor juice you've been buying, then it doesn't really matter as your nic will be lower than what you have been vaping after being diluted by flavoring and most doing this method are not after repeatability.

I could care less about final PG/VG ratios. I use the Little Bit, Some, Bunch method and it works well for me. If you're the type to be really concerned about final PG/VG ratios then learn the math. Plot your must-have PG/VG ratio with your other bases, blended or not, and figure out how much "wiggle room" you have and buy base accordingly.

Sticking with vendors here on ECF isn't a bad thing. If you branch out, please report what you discover back here. Sometimes we find new things this way and sometimes we find places to be avoided. If you are going in a different way than others, understand that you're blazing a new trail.

I usually recommend Capella's for newbies because they don't usually hit levels 7 & 8 which makes them easier to learn with. I make a number of great recipes with a large variety of flavorings including TPA/TFA, FA, and LorAnn's, among others, the problem many people have with mixing is that you could have 2 flavorings from the same company and one is strong at 1 drop in 30ml while the other needs 30% to taste right. (And if we're talking about TPA/TFA's Kona, then I say 1 drop in 30ml is too damn high. That stuff hurts just to look at it. But some folks love it...so what do I know?)

I bring up my take to point out another thing about mixing. The_vape_nerd does things differently than I do and _nerd's way is just as correct and right as my way. The best way is the way that works best for you. Experiment. Have Fun. Learn ways to not do what you wanted to do then give it to your RL vaping friend as a practical joke before you give him/her a new atty in appreciation for the laugh.

I'm sorry we disagree. I follow your posts and blog a lot and have nothing but the highest respect for you here as the DIY Oracle. However, I do think the ejuicemeup calculator is for newbs because it can take a lot of the guess work out of it for them. I also recommended that they learn what the fields are doing for them and I do agree with you that knowing the math behind it helps avoid errors.

As to final ratios, we have people asking all day long the same mathematical questions on how to arrive at a 50/50 or 70/30, etc. One girl was on here asking about how to understand decimals.

Hoosier here is an expert, one who keeps notes, one who has discussed the "entropic state" of ejuice. So for him, the "pinch of this, or bunch of that" might make perfect sense. To the newer DIYer though, I think it best to at least start out with some reasonably accurate measurements. Hoosier knows what .4 ml looks like by eyeball. Most don't.

Finally, he's right in that there are many ways to arrive at the same goal. I wasn't trying to order anyone around. Just trying to alleviate frustration so many newbs have.

 

[SneakyVapper]

Shot in the dark...it was about 8 days when I came down with vapor's tongue...

 

[KC Jones]

I like the e juice me up calculator i just started a month ago n i only use drops if some thing is so low to use 5-8 drops other than that i've got 3 diff measuring syringes So far i've made some awesome apple cobbler and raspberries n cream and a couple meh flavours i just could'nt dial in but vapeable. i 'm hoping my tfa strawberries n cream comes out nice and i've got some peach pink champagne n ecto a brewing. I almost did ecigexpress a few times but ended up using Rts for nic and a few tfa flavours n mt bakers flavorings/ (FW?). I've heard a citric acid like concentrated lemon or lime help flavours pop like just a few drops to 1 % and heard the same for pga too. I think some of the awesome vendors juices got to use some kinda real natural juice or flavour extract. Personally i'ma play w EM instead of sucrolose and distilled water, citric acid n pga in my next small batches Ne way hope ya get er down good n me too peace...

 

[philderbeest]

Gotta agree with Hoosier saying just because it's the same company doesn't mean it's the same ratio for all of their flavours. Flavour Art I found to be notoriously difficult to find a happy starting point. Their Key Lime is a sour beast of flavour explosion and I mix at around 5%. At the other end of the spectrum their caramel (which is my personal favourite caramel btw) is very weak and I mix at 30%. People will obviously disagree at my personal ratios but at least you can see the huge percentage difference.

 

[Kabooma]

1. PAY ATTENTION HERE, this is the most important and crucial piece of info you are going to receive. Get the Breaktru calculator. Get it now. Do not attempt to half-... it with some other program or trying the math on your own. It's a wonderful program, will save you time and will yield consistent results. So say it with me again, GET THE BREAKTRU CALCULATOR. Don't just get it. Take an hour or so and figure out exactly what each field does. There are stickies here that explain it.


2. Do not measure "drops". This is not going to provide you with any kind of consistency or give you a true reading of how much flavor is going in. Get a pipette pump or an assortment of syringes and do your mixing by the right levels. Down to .1 of a ml.

I have looked at this and other calculators. I don't disagree that these will come into play once I get my issues with base product worked out, but with my situation, those calculators are useless considering that the concentrate is watered down and when you are mixing 40% and higher of concentrate instead of the 5% you are supposed to, the world will explode when you get un-diluted concentrate from a new vendor. As it stands, I'm experimenting, but I have ordered more consistent syrings, flasks, etc..

3. DO NOT buy your nic in a mix of 50/50 until you have some experience with final ratios. For most newbs, you should be buying your nic in 100% PG. This is because it allows you more freedom in the final ratio. You pure VG folks are exempted obviously.

I'm curious why you suggest this, my goal will still be a 50/50 mix in the end, and 8 drops, or .03ml or whatever level of added concentrate isn't going to upset that balance enough to matter.. if it comes out 55/45 or whatever, I doubt I'd even notice

4. Stick to the recommended vendors here at ECF. I will not recommend one here, but suffice it to say, that paying a bit more for a thing normally results in that thing being of better quality. I'm not saying it is always true, but it's a general rule.

I did. Just in the last week did it come to light here that the vendor waters their concentrates

5. This one is for the OP specifically. I do not find the Flavor Art line works well for most of us Americans. They are a european company an surely there's a niche market for their flavors, but to the American pallette there's just something different or off in their flavors. I like ecigexpress's line of flavors the most. The TPA/TFA flavors to me have a problem of tasting chemically. Not all of them but a good bit of them. I'd stick with ecig-express flavors, Capella's flavors, Tasty Puff and LorAnn (though you normally need high amounts of flavor in this last one).[/QUOTE]

LOL that's the vendor I'm talking about.. I ordered a whole new batch of base and flavors from Wizard labs this morning, as well as a bit of better mixing equipment, so it should work out better when I mix again