First Kanger Rebuild

[scratchtheweasel]

My first rebuild of a kanger atomizer head. Thanks entirely to MKR for the guidance (although I doubt this up to standards yet).







This was 6 wraps (I think) of 26 gauge wire. It came out to about 0.6 ohms, which is probably too low for an aerotank. First impression was a surprising boost to flavor, but somewhat low vapor output. I get better vapor density from a 1.8 ohm factory coil on the MVP, but the flavor was indeed better on this coil. Surprisingly no wicking issues on this build. I have tried the 0.8 ohm factory Kanger coils and I could not find any juice that would help avoid the dry hits.

For the next round I think I would use higher gauge wire (28 probably), and try to build to around 1.2 ohms. I will also play with the amount of cotton a bit. Overall it's kind of a pain building these as compared to an rda, but it was fun and now I want to perfect it. Suggestions are most welcome.

 

[Megan Kogijiki Ratchford]

Try keeping the coil and wick ends in the "windows" of the base, maybe use what ever you used to wrap it around to hold it in place? Otherwise well done!

 

[jdake3265]

wrap excess cotton around that ring thing, it cuts back on gurgling.

 

[scratchtheweasel]

Thanks for the tip.

 

[DesmondTheMoonbear]

dont dry fire to test coils on these heads. youll have a bad time.
Wish id have has someone to tell me that l:

 

[scratchtheweasel]

Thanks Desmond - the advice is much appreciated.

 

[fogging_katrider]

Please see this thread. Everything you'd ever need to know about rebuilding kanger coils is there, and more...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/tips-tricks/463771-protank-cotton-rebuild-way-i-do.html

And if you're still hungry for more info...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html

hth

 

[scratchtheweasel]

Please see this thread. Everything you'd ever need to know about rebuilding kanger coils is there, and more...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/tips-tricks/463771-protank-cotton-rebuild-way-i-do.html

And if you're still hungry for more info...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html

hth

Thanks a ton for those links. That was a huge help. I'm waiting on the 28 gauge to have another go at this. The 26 gauge worked fine, but it's built too low to work on my daily carry devices. Thanks again!

 

[francisthepig]

dont dry fire to test coils on these heads. youll have a bad time.
Wish id have has someone to tell me that l:

Can someone elaborate on why not to dry fire these?
Thanks

 

[fogging_katrider]

Francisthepig,
Dry firing coils takes them to temperatures that are much higher than a wicked coil with juice in/on it.
It will scortch the rubber insulator grommet within the head, causing a foul burnt rubber tainted flavor in your vape which is hard to get rid of once the rubber has scortched. The newer heads have a silicone rubber grommet which can withstand higher temps than the older rubber grommets, but it too can get toasted by dry burning.

So if you're going to dry fire them at all, for example when changing out a cotton wick, do it in very short pulses, not long cherry red burns. I prefer to just rinse them thoroughly in hot water... blow them semi dry, then pulse them slightly hot and quench them again in water (caution: without the button pressed). This causes any remaining caked on burnt juice to flake off immediatly, leaving the coil looking clean almost like new and ready to dry and re-wick with fresh cotton or rayon.

When you're making the coil, it's best to torch and squeeze the coil before you install it in the coil base, then install in into the base "on the mandrel" (1/16" drill bit). That way you will maintain proper alignment in the base without messing up that nice tight microcoil, so that you wont need to heat it in the base or tweezer squeeze it again after assembly.

scratchtheweasel,
I think you'll find that 30ga kanthal is really the perfect guage for rebuilding kanger coils.

 

[francisthepig]

Thanks for that reply. It was very detailed.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Please see this thread. Everything you'd ever need to know about rebuilding kanger coils is there, and more...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/tips-tricks/463771-protank-cotton-rebuild-way-i-do.html

And if you're still hungry for more info...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html

hth

Foggy I can't tell you how much your referral to these two threads means to me. I happened upon your post just now and it's truly appreciated. I remember our exchanges last Fall about simplicity and I can say that I sincerely took your questions and doubts to heart. I have endeavored to do just that at every opportunity. To demonstrate how simply and effortlessly nature, physics can aid us in improving our electronics with consistency. And I've done so diligently.

Your validation heartens me to continue because it's been a tough fight. Always it's our nature to adhere to what we already know and do best. It's hard for us to embrace change when we're getting by. So education on this front has been a challenge. It's wonderful to encounter the intellectually honest and inquisitive. Those willing to try and test, to prove all things. That you are foggy. And a gentleman.

So thx bro, I got your back. You tell me when and how.

Good luck.

 

[scratchtheweasel]

Coming back to this thread to share an update. I got my 28 gauge A1 kanthal and had a few tries at rebuilding the kanger heads again. The first round on the 28 gauge was not too bad. I was able to build a working coil out of the gate. It came out to about 1 ohm - I forget how many wraps it was now or what I even used for the mandrel. The next two rounds were a total mess. On one of them the flooding was obscene - it was unusable. On the next I had the opposite - the thing wouldn't wick at all. However, on my latest attempt I managed to hit the goldilocks happy point.

Here are some details on the build:

Wire: 28 gauge A1 Kanthal from Lightning Vapes
Wick: Cotton Bacon by Wick N' Vape
Tank: Aerotank v2, 2.5ml w/ v3 airflow base
Head: Aerotank/PT3 BDC v1
Mandrel: 1.5 mm screwdriver
Coils: single
Wraps: 8
Resistance: 1.25 ohms

The method that worked was rather simple. Wrap the coil, compress under force (no heat applied), thread the leads through the head while keeping the coil on the screwdriver. Remove the screwdriver and thread the wick, then thread a second wick (flavor wick?) under the coil. The ends of the wicks were protruding through the windows on both sides of the head, and were then trimmed down to roughly the width of the atomizer head. The insulator and positive pin were then re-installed and the the leads clipped. The final step was further trimming of the wicks to remove excess the may have gotten caught in the threads. At this point it looked like a factory coil would only with cotton wick nubs protruding instead of the silica on the factory heads. I reattached the tank and let the wicks saturate for a minute or two, then had a vape. No gurgling or flooding this time, and no dry hits. Vapor production and flavor were great. It was just working beautifully.

I need to practice this a few more times, but I think I have recipe that works now. I may try a dual coil once I have this process mastered, but I would guess that I need at least 30 gauge if not 32 gauge to keep the resistance around 1.2 ohms. That said I don't really feel the need. A single coil works great. I am interested in trying 30 gauge either way though to see how that changes the end result. Thanks to everyone for the tips - they helped a lot.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Hey scratch, congratz. It ain't easy getting cotton to work in a Protank dude. Kudos also that you got it. It's important to stabilize the coil at the bottom of the slot so you can properly tension and terminate the leads (prevent bowing of the legs, incidental contact shorts, loose end turns which produce thermal shorts or overheating, etc.). A great many, many people still hand winding without an understanding that it limits the quality of the vape (not proper electrically).

Curious that you mention you installed a flavor wick underneath the coil though. First that would seem to compromise your ability to really set the leads solidly…which exposes the build to all the above and more. So scratchin' my head cause that ain't factory and nothing discussed here or on reddit or anywhere else about bottom flavor wicks. I've written more than a few pages on this subject myself so I know. You see cotton sags and not supported by the coil which is vacating (vaporizing) the juice entering the cup the flavor wick may leak to the 510 connection beneath compromising termination. Think wet car battery. So I'd love to know how that works out tomorrow. You should see the result that soon. And it should come in the way of reduced performance with its symptom, gurgling.

First, I'll say I've built hundreds of precision coils on screws as manual winds and tension as a part of a consumer study I've done on building methods for clearos. Then I moved on to microcoils as conceived by super_X_drifter right here on ECF in 2013. Since then I introduced the science of tension in winding as a means to perfect micro's electrically. These are the most efficient coils you can possibly build for a clearomizer bar none…

And you can produce one in seconds yourself with a pin vise (pictured) a screwdriver being a slightly less adaptable cousin. So you already got the mandrel question answered and its importance. You're building on a known diameter and consistently available tool. That's going to give you consistency and repeatability. All essential to a great vape. An inexpensive pin vise and drill blanks or drill bits would just afford you more versatility and control.

I'd love to help you up your game scratch. Have done it for hundreds.

Foggy mentioned some links above on which I post regularly and I'd like to point you to the thread where I mostly live...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html

With your attention to detail and appreciation would love to see you join the discussion, perfect your wind and start making contributions to help others…THIS WEEK.

Reply to me there on any of my posts or PM me. Really glad to help.

Best of luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Can someone elaborate on why not to dry fire these?
Thanks

Hey francis, to explain (why not), you don't dry fire coils already installed with cotton. The cotton will dry out, scorch and may actually catch fire like a candle with juice on it. Nope, not somethin' you wanna see.

However dry firing of the raw coil is useful and necessary to oxidize the coil surface which builds an insulating barrier on the surface hindering runaway overheating in sections of the coil. These random hotspots which I've started referring to as thermal shorts are the equivalent of an actual electrical short in that it deviates power from the load or work which is contact with the wick and vaporization.

I've noted the significant thread on Protank (clearomizer) rebuilds that nails these subjects. Tap me on the shoulder there anytime.

Good luck.

 

[scratchtheweasel]

MacTech - you my friend are awesome. So I was not getting any leaking or gurgling. The airflow base was actually bone dry. But...as of this morning the draw became very tight and I couldn't figure out what it was at first. Then I read your post.

So the idea with the bottom wick was to get more wick material in the window - plain and simple. On the factory coils they have one nestled in between the two coils so this seemed like a good idea at the time. Now what you're saying makes perfect sense. That wick is getting saturated and sagging into the base, thus restricting airflow. Back to the drawing board on this. I will have to read up some more in that thread you linked, and yes I plan to get into the discussion.

Regarding hard wrap - I will look into the pin vise further. I also need to invest in a butane torch and ceramic tweezers so I can heat up the coils prior to installation.

Thanks again for your help - truly appreciated.

BTW - MacTech, I assume you work with macs? I am a long time fan as evidenced by my @mac.com email address.

 

[MacTechVpr]

MacTech - you my friend are awesome. So I was not getting any leaking or gurgling. The airflow base was actually bone dry. But...as of this morning the draw became very tight and I couldn't figure out what it was at first. Then I read your post.

So the idea with the bottom wick was to get more wick material in the window - plain and simple. On the factory coils they have one nestled in between the two coils so this seemed like a good idea at the time. Now what you're saying makes perfect sense. That wick is getting saturated and sagging into the base, thus restricting airflow. Back to the drawing board on this. I will have to read up some more in that thread you linked, and yes I plan to get into the discussion.

Regarding hard wrap - I will look into the pin vise further. I also need to invest in a butane torch and ceramic tweezers so I can heat up the coils prior to installation.

Thanks again for your help - truly appreciated.

BTW - MacTech, I assume you work with macs? I am a long time fan as evidenced by my @mac.com email address.

I'll be frank. The crew on the PT Micro thread is starting to become a terrific asset to this forum and community. Not all the alumni participate but they kick in from time time. I have no doubt you will get your answers there in the history and if not someone will be quick to investigate and supply it. Unlike many threads on this and other forums it is not so much about what individuals have done or accomplished per se as exhibiting what is possible to do. That difference is fundamental to us getting beyond where we stand.

Tap me on the shoulder if need be and lend a hand if you can.

Good luck.