So, just wondering...does that mean your User name should be 50VG now? I always assumed it meant you vaped 90VG/10PG.
First time is this a workable idea to get started?
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So, just wondering...does that mean your User name should be 50VG now? I always assumed it meant you vaped 90VG/10PG.
@OlderNDirt That's a photo of me from October, and I am exactly half that age, hence using 50/50.
I just have hid from the sun using hats/helmets/clothes most of the time. I'm outside a lot, but not getting sun burnt. I think alcohol preserves also.
I think most here know that I'm a fan of mixing by weight, but I'll say that I think that syringes are probably more accurate. If you think about it, a syringe gives you a second chance at getting it right. If you draw out more flavor than you intended, you squirt the excess back in the bottle you drew from, and then squirt the right amount into the mix bottle. With a scale it's an OOPS moment when you notice that the scale suddenly overshot your targeted amount.
On a scale you are watching the display and the dropper bottle (to make sure it's all going in the hole in the bottle) by looking back and forth. If you overshoot, there's no going back unless it's the first ingredient in the bottle.
That said, I'll stick with scales just because I like the process. I'll admit that I've overshot ingredients and tried to fix the mistake by estimating the error and adjusting. It's still vapable, although the juice may not be exactly by the recipe. Then, you become like a cook that flies by the seat of their pants.
There's always some humor between weight and volume mixers!! We like to kid each other about which is best and we compare notes and methods. Although I mix by weight I use syringes more often than my scales. I mix juice on a large scale about once a month. I fill my vape tanks with a little juice from dropper bottles that are steeping just to test them out. I do that several times a week to see how my steeping is progressing. once it's steeped I transfer it to LDPE bottles.
On a scale you are watching the display and the dropper bottle (to make sure it's all going in the hole in the bottle) by looking back and forth. If you overshoot, there's no going back unless it's the first ingredient in the bottle.
That said, I'll stick with scales just because I like the process. I'll admit that I've overshot ingredients and tried to fix the mistake by estimating the error and adjusting. It's still vapable, although the juice may not be exactly by the recipe. Then, you become like a cook that flies by the seat of their pants.
There's always some humor between weight and volume mixers!! We like to kid each other about which is best and we compare notes and methods. Although I mix by weight I use syringes more often than my scales. I mix juice on a large scale about once a month. I fill my vape tanks with a little juice from dropper bottles that are steeping just to test them out. I do that several times a week to see how my steeping is progressing. once it's steeped I transfer it to LDPE bottles.
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I'm not sure I'd agree, with the proviso that it takes a bit of practice to measure by weight, and that very small quantities can be difficult. I have a pretty good idea of how much a drop from my flavor bottles weighs anyway, and I do count in my head as I drop, just to have a ballpark of where I'm at. I slow down a _lot_ when I am nearing my target weight. The main reason I overshoot is that I am impatient, and it can sometimes take a moment for the scale to register changes.
That said, it can be difficult to measure really powerful concentrates by weight in small batches. I'm working on a recipe I really like the outlines of right now (a sort of blueberry/other berry/slight lemon FA Zeppola with FA Custard and some other creams and custards and a number of berry options) and it uses FA Bilberry, which is pretty strong. Because I'm making a lot of variations to test different creams/custards/berries, etc. in it I'm mixing 5 mills at a time, and I did wind up adding about 1.6% Bilberry when I meant to add 1% (which I am coming to think is _still_ too high for the Bilberry.)
It ruined the batch for testing purposes, but it was still delicious- this recipe needs a steep for the custards and creams to come out, but it is actually pretty good as a shake and vape. One of the many reasons I love FA and FLV. So I just dripped it all immediately.
One possibility here is to use dilutions. I have to dilute a couple of flavors anyway (gonna try adding some FLV rich cinnamon to this recipe soon, and there's no way you can measure _that_ properly for a 5 mill test batch without diluting it a lot.)
You're right. It easy to get flavors and nic right. But, how often do you get PC and VG exactly on the money?
It's usually the PG or VG that I overshoot using my clear condiment bottles. You shoot a little PG or VG and wait for the scale to settle. On the end of an add is where it's likely to happen if you can't do it drop by drop while watching the scale increment count. My error when it happens is usually a tenth of a gram or so unless I let myself get in a hurry. Then, I can really overshoot, but that doesn't happen often.
Flavors and nic are pretty easy to get right or at least close. PG and VG, not as easy with condiment bottles. It I had a setup where a rack mounted tube led from the squeeze bottle up to the top of the mix bottle, it would allow me to watch the scale 100% of the time while adding. It's looking back and forth where my small errors occur.
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1/10th a gram? I usually make 100 ml, sometimes 250 ml at a time. I could care less if I'm off a gram on PG or VG. A small 10ml bottle, sure, it makes a difference. But at 100ml, you are talking about 0.1% difference. I seriously doubt anyone could tell the difference between 9.9% flavoring and 9.8%, much less 50.1% VG vs 50.0%.
We don't want to scare off the new folks so much they have to buy crazy scales or measure to micro liters. It's just not needed. Unless you are working on the flavor mix (pure flavor) in small quantities, it's not going to make much difference.
Larger batches are easier.
It's almost like a ritualistic thing here. Steep for 2 months, measure to 0.0001% accuracy for something that goes up in smoke (vapor). If you are running a business selling juice, then yes you need to be accurate, but for home use, it's my opinion that 1% variances in VG/PG/NIC/Flavor really aren't going to make a difference that a blind trial would be able to determine.
Even construction contractors only have to be accurate to 1/4" for every 50'. That's .5%. (in USA)
We don't want to scare off the new folks so much they have to buy crazy scales or measure to micro liters. It's just not needed. Unless you are working on the flavor mix (pure flavor) in small quantities, it's not going to make much difference.
Larger batches are easier.
It's almost like a ritualistic thing here. Steep for 2 months, measure to 0.0001% accuracy for something that goes up in smoke (vapor). If you are running a business selling juice, then yes you need to be accurate, but for home use, it's my opinion that 1% variances in VG/PG/NIC/Flavor really aren't going to make a difference that a blind trial would be able to determine.
Even construction contractors only have to be accurate to 1/4" for every 50'. That's .5%. (in USA)
Not trying to dis either camp. Weight is my favorite. Liquid measurement by volume has its place, too.
Even liquid measurement has some degree of potential error. Those who do volume measurement have lines marked on glass containers or on their large syringes. Once you squirt the ingredient you're committed to the result.
Comparing the pluses and minuses in either method is good information for new DIY mixers to consider. I think that discussion and comparison of the finer points and shortcomings give them some of the info they need to hear.
A $25 or $30 digital scale is fine for DIY and mixing by weight is my choice method. I also get a lot of use out of my 10ml syringes for transferring DIY juice from the dropper bottles I mix and steep in to a tank for flavor testing during steeping. I use the volume method for mixing up 100 drop mixes or small 10ml and 15ml test mixes. It's all good. Few of us are strictly weight or volume mixers.
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I agree that both methods have +/- and it comes down to personal choice. Also agree volume can be more accurate in smaller mixes and that small variances in larger mixes have little affect on the final product.
PG/VG are also where I usually have my oops. I have gone to making a pre-mix of my VG/PG so I only add one liquid versus two (plus it saves a little time, especially when making multiple mixes). Also have started using beakers instead of directly into my unicorn bottles. Don't worry about missing the opening and use a small mixer to blend. For the cost, accept loosing a little juice in the beaker transferring to unicorns for the ease of use.
PG/VG are also where I usually have my oops. I have gone to making a pre-mix of my VG/PG so I only add one liquid versus two (plus it saves a little time, especially when making multiple mixes). Also have started using beakers instead of directly into my unicorn bottles. Don't worry about missing the opening and use a small mixer to blend. For the cost, accept loosing a little juice in the beaker transferring to unicorns for the ease of use.
As long as the "A" word has been mentioned already. Might as well go ahead and Ask some Fundamental Questions.
What Level of Accuracy is needed to do DIY?
Is Absolute Accuracy Needed for All the Ingredients that go into a Mix? Or can there be Different Levels of Accuracy for different components of a recipe?
Last one...
When does Numerical Accuracy to an arbitrary Value exceed the Ability to Taste the Difference for the Average user? And if a Value is arbitrarily chosen, say 80% VG or 6mg/ml, who is to say that a Vaper might like 78.2% VG or 6.3mg/ml better?
What Level of Accuracy is needed to do DIY?
Is Absolute Accuracy Needed for All the Ingredients that go into a Mix? Or can there be Different Levels of Accuracy for different components of a recipe?
Last one...
When does Numerical Accuracy to an arbitrary Value exceed the Ability to Taste the Difference for the Average user? And if a Value is arbitrarily chosen, say 80% VG or 6mg/ml, who is to say that a Vaper might like 78.2% VG or 6.3mg/ml better?
As it is with my limited cooking experience, I do enjoy those moments when "an extra good batch" was created and consumed. If I am totally 100% accurate cooking or mixing, those experiences would disappear. Never could figure out how to be 100% accurate in a recipe calling for eggs.
Then, there are times when you try new flavors for the first time and decide that that the flavor percentage everyone else likes is too strong or too weak. So, you start to cut or add flavor or dilute the whole with with unflavored. It's pretty much an exacting science until that happens. It's also a good reason to use the 100 drop method or just do a 10ml recipe. When it's a big bottle you feel like you have to rescue it.
The short/easy/"cop-out" answer to all three of your questions is: "as much as necessary, for the given individual, to achieve a satisfactory result." And, that is going to have as many different "correct" answers, as there are DIYers. From the person who eyeball adds miscellaneous ingredients, to the drop counter, to the person who "borrowed" $10,000 worth of lab equipment from work and can measure to four decimal places, and every manner in between.
"Happy accidents" can indeed be a wonderful thing. I think it comes down to what is "acceptable" for the individual mixer; some want relatively precise control with little/no variance, while others are pefectly satisfied with more of a ballpark whimsy and enjoy the novelty of every mix. So, finding the mixing style/method that provides the result desired, is the key, in my mind anyway.
My only concern with happy accidents, is the ability to repeat them, if I so choose. This leads me to my final word of advise to all new mixers: "take as many notes about everything you add, and do, as you can bring yourself to record."
I would not limit it to just ingredients and amounts, but also the "hows," and even "whys" of mixing methods (e.g. "heated to 110F, for 3 hours, using the crock-pot, to try to accelerate aging," or "aged 4 weeks per 'so-and-so's' recommendation"). Then, when evaluating the success/failure of any given action, I can decide if it is worth repeating. This includes those "oops" moments; if I have noted that I added X amount over/under my intended, I can now recreate that happy accident at will. (This also helps figuring out, and understanding, rescue efforts like @DaveP described.)
Sources are another thing I like to record in my notes. A web address, or link, to the recipe, or discussion; as well as, the individual(s) who offered the information; makes it simple for me to return to the souce for follow-up questions, feedback, and giving proper credit. It also helps me to identify fellow mixers who share a similar palate to mine; which to me, is even more valuable than finding a good recipe.
Ok went ahead and made up several 15ml bottles to try out over the next couple weeks. So far none are disgusting and a couple are sort of nice. Maybe they will improve, maybe get worse over the next couple weeks.
So far just:
Black Honey tobacco
East Coast tobacco
Black Honey tobacco, Blackberry
Black Honey tobacco, East coast Tobacco
Black Honey Tobacco, East coast tobacco, Blackberry (not bad)
East Coast Tobacco, Black berry (kind of weird)
Black Berry
So far just:
Black Honey tobacco
East Coast tobacco
Black Honey tobacco, Blackberry
Black Honey tobacco, East coast Tobacco
Black Honey Tobacco, East coast tobacco, Blackberry (not bad)
East Coast Tobacco, Black berry (kind of weird)
Black Berry
I'm not a Tobacco Flavor mixer. But I have read Countless Threads where those who are say that Tobacco Flavors benefit from Much Longer Steeping/Aging times.
Three of them I like, will make more of them. Probably some of the tobacco needs to age long. The Black Honey Tobacco is perfume like with anise or clove taste. Hoping that will tone down in a couple weeks.
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