No reason you couldnt mix it that way and combine the two. vaping has moved to the sub-ohm stage and PG is just a hard throat hit at higher wattage plus the clouds seem to impress. When I started everything was 50/50 but everything was 2ohms and just a few watts also. I think you will be happier at 50/50 with your particular style. Now if we can just find you a recipe that works
Flavours too dull
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You can use just PG if you want. Someone Vg sensitive might do that for example. Wanting more of a "throat hit" I guess, PG is supposed to add to it.
Really at this point most times it's a matter of preference, although many MTL vapers do use a high PG percentage as it wicks better, is less gunky and etc.
I've had to use VG and distilled water because I'm PG sensitive and can only tolerate a small amount of PG, usually flavors. I recently started vaping my first PEG400 DIY mixes (it's an alternative to PG) and I have to say everything wicks easier, less crazy clouds for MTL vaping, it's nice.
My ratio of PEG400 is 30% of my mix, but I still used some distilled water, and it's quite a nice mix. Like PG, PEG400 seems to be more of a flavor carrier, also nice.
But for the most part, it's preference and nowadays, nic salts are being marketed for "pod and MTL" vapes, while high VG stuff remains mostly for those using sub0hm equipment. Not everyone, but that seems to be the current breakdown, etc.
Anna
Really at this point most times it's a matter of preference, although many MTL vapers do use a high PG percentage as it wicks better, is less gunky and etc.
I've had to use VG and distilled water because I'm PG sensitive and can only tolerate a small amount of PG, usually flavors. I recently started vaping my first PEG400 DIY mixes (it's an alternative to PG) and I have to say everything wicks easier, less crazy clouds for MTL vaping, it's nice.
My ratio of PEG400 is 30% of my mix, but I still used some distilled water, and it's quite a nice mix. Like PG, PEG400 seems to be more of a flavor carrier, also nice.
But for the most part, it's preference and nowadays, nic salts are being marketed for "pod and MTL" vapes, while high VG stuff remains mostly for those using sub0hm equipment. Not everyone, but that seems to be the current breakdown, etc.
Anna
@tara81, if you are thinking it may be an issue of ingredient percentages, you might want to experiment by using flavor bases. A flavor base is simply a recipe that has not had the PG. VG, or nic added to it. The benefit of using a flavor base is, that it keeps the relationship of each ingredient, to all the other ingredients, the same. And, as in this recipe's case; I am not having to repeatedly handle 10 different ingredients, over and over and over and... well, you get it.
If you mix up a flavor base; you can quickly and easily try mixing it at various percentages, to see if going higher (or even lower), will improve your flavor perception. Here is an example of Lemon Tart Remix you mentioned trying (I already had in my calculator):
This is the original recipe as posted on ATF:
(Click on image to view full size; click again to return to smaller image)
(NOTE: For the Lemon Meringue Pie, I have subbed CAP V1, for the FW the author called for... at the same percentage. I will not use the FW version because of the sugar syrup. You can use which ever you prefer.)
Notice that the total flavoring percentage (as the author wrote it) is 14.55%. The remaining 85.45% is made up with PG, VG, and nicotine (when used).
Since all I want, are the flavor concentrates (without any PG, VG, or nic), I need to convert that 14.55% to 100%. I do that, by dividing the (original) individual ingredient percentage, by the (original) total flavoring percentage. Here's the first flavor concentrate, as an example:
-- The original recipe calls for Bavarian Cream to be used at 1%.
-- I need to figure out how much 1% is of the total 14.55%.
-- So, I divide 1 by 14.55. (1 ÷ 14.55 or 1/14.55)
-- The answer is 0.068728522 (1 ÷ 14.55 = 0.68728522)
-- Because I am working with percentages, I move the decimal point two places to the right, and I end up with 6.87% (rounded off to 2 decimal places).
The Bavarian Cream is 6.87% of the total amount of the flavor concentrates used.
When I do the same math, to the rest of the ingredients, I get these results:
(NOTE: this recipe (as shown) will make 10mL of flavor base; which would make about 68mL of the original strength recipe)
This is now my flavor base. I can make up as much or as little as I like, and not worry about getting the integrity of the original recipe out of balance.
If I want to make the recipe as the author intended; I would add 14.55% of the flavor base (to my preferred PG, VG, and nic).
If I want to make it stronger than the author's version; I would add more than 14.55% of the flavor base.
If I want to make it weaker than the author's version; I would add less than 14.55% of the flavor base.
Using a flavor base, one can make multiple small testing samples, at various strengths (percentages) to see what percentage works best for you and your device.
Alternate method to make a flavor base:
The e-liquid calculator I use, has a flavor base creation feature, so it is simple. If your calculator does not offer this feature, and you don't want the hassle of doing the math; there is another quick means to make a flavor base. And, that is increasing the original recipe by a specific amount, and omitting the PG, VG, and nic when you make it.
It only requires doing one math calculation. Decide how much flavor base you want to make. Then divide that amount (mL), by the total percentage used. The result is the "volume" you would set the recipe to make.
For an example; I will use the same lemon tart recipe's values, and aim for making 10mL of flavor base:
-- The recipe calls for 14.55% total flavoring.
-- I want 10mL of flavor base.
-- I know my formula is: "desired volume" divided by " total flavoring percentage"
-- Plug in the numbers: 10 (volume) ÷ 0.1455 (percentage) = 68.7285223mL
Then, all I need to do is:
Set the "amount to make" as 68.7mL, and then combine only the flavor concentrates, and I will end up with (just shy of; because I rounded down) 10mL of flavor base.
If you mix up a flavor base; you can quickly and easily try mixing it at various percentages, to see if going higher (or even lower), will improve your flavor perception. Here is an example of Lemon Tart Remix you mentioned trying (I already had in my calculator
):This is the original recipe as posted on ATF:
(Click on image to view full size; click again to return to smaller image)
(NOTE: For the Lemon Meringue Pie, I have subbed CAP V1, for the FW the author called for... at the same percentage. I will not use the FW version because of the sugar syrup. You can use which ever you prefer.)
Notice that the total flavoring percentage (as the author wrote it) is 14.55%. The remaining 85.45% is made up with PG, VG, and nicotine (when used).
Since all I want, are the flavor concentrates (without any PG, VG, or nic), I need to convert that 14.55% to 100%. I do that, by dividing the (original) individual ingredient percentage, by the (original) total flavoring percentage. Here's the first flavor concentrate, as an example:
-- The original recipe calls for Bavarian Cream to be used at 1%.
-- I need to figure out how much 1% is of the total 14.55%.
-- So, I divide 1 by 14.55. (1 ÷ 14.55 or 1/14.55)
-- The answer is 0.068728522 (1 ÷ 14.55 = 0.68728522)
-- Because I am working with percentages, I move the decimal point two places to the right, and I end up with 6.87% (rounded off to 2 decimal places).
The Bavarian Cream is 6.87% of the total amount of the flavor concentrates used.
When I do the same math, to the rest of the ingredients, I get these results:
(NOTE: this recipe (as shown) will make 10mL of flavor base; which would make about 68mL of the original strength recipe)
This is now my flavor base. I can make up as much or as little as I like, and not worry about getting the integrity of the original recipe out of balance.
If I want to make the recipe as the author intended; I would add 14.55% of the flavor base (to my preferred PG, VG, and nic).
If I want to make it stronger than the author's version; I would add more than 14.55% of the flavor base.
If I want to make it weaker than the author's version; I would add less than 14.55% of the flavor base.
Using a flavor base, one can make multiple small testing samples, at various strengths (percentages) to see what percentage works best for you and your device.
Alternate method to make a flavor base:
The e-liquid calculator I use, has a flavor base creation feature, so it is simple. If your calculator does not offer this feature, and you don't want the hassle of doing the math; there is another quick means to make a flavor base. And, that is increasing the original recipe by a specific amount, and omitting the PG, VG, and nic when you make it.
It only requires doing one math calculation. Decide how much flavor base you want to make. Then divide that amount (mL), by the total percentage used. The result is the "volume" you would set the recipe to make.
For an example; I will use the same lemon tart recipe's values, and aim for making 10mL of flavor base:
-- The recipe calls for 14.55% total flavoring.
-- I want 10mL of flavor base.
-- I know my formula is: "desired volume" divided by " total flavoring percentage"
-- Plug in the numbers: 10 (volume) ÷ 0.1455 (percentage) = 68.7285223mL
Then, all I need to do is:
Set the "amount to make" as 68.7mL, and then combine only the flavor concentrates, and I will end up with (just shy of; because I rounded down) 10mL of flavor base.
Yes that can be done; but keep a couple of things in mind.
It is going to double the amount you have. If it doesn't work; it is doubling the amount of ingredients that are going to waste.
If you add only PG, and VG; it will be diluting your flavors by half. This may be counter-productive if your goal is increasing flavor potency. If you mix the reverse PG/VG ratio, with the same amount of flavor concentrates, then you will end up with and undiluted version.
PG creates less clouds than VG.
PG has more throat hit than VG.
Some folks have adverse reactions to PG.
Thinner viscosity, caused by more PG, can cause leaking issues in some toppers (esp. tanks w/o juice flow control).
If these are not a concern for you, then you can mix as high a PG ratio, as you want.
Yes I will make flavor bases in the future ! that is so much easier to fine tune, thanks! So smart!@tara81, if you are thinking it may be an issue of ingredient percentages, you might want to experiment by using flavor bases. A flavor base is simply a recipe that has not had the PG. VG, or nic added to it. The benefit of using a flavor base is, that it keeps the relationship of each ingredient, to all the other ingredients, the same. And, as in this recipe's case; I am not having to repeatedly handle 10 different ingredients, over and over and over and... well, you get it.
If you mix up a flavor base; you can quickly and easily try mixing it at various percentages, to see if going higher (or even lower), will improve your flavor perception. Here is an example of Lemon Tart Remix you mentioned trying (I already had in my calculator
This is the original recipe as posted on ATF:
View attachment 740779
(Click on image to view full size; click again to return to smaller image)
(NOTE: For the Lemon Meringue Pie, I have subbed CAP V1, for the FW the author called for... at the same percentage. I will not use the FW version because of the sugar syrup. You can use which ever you prefer.)
Notice that the total flavoring percentage (as the author wrote it) is 14.55%. The remaining 85.45% is made up with PG, VG, and nicotine (when used).
Since all I want, are the flavor concentrates (without any PG, VG, or nic), I need to convert that 14.55% to 100%. I do that, by dividing the (original) individual ingredient percentage, by the (original) total flavoring percentage. Here's the first flavor concentrate, as an example:
-- The original recipe calls for Bavarian Cream to be used at 1%.
-- I need to figure out how much 1% is of the total 14.55%.
-- So, I divide 1 by 14.55. (1 ÷ 14.55 or 1/14.55)
-- The answer is 0.068728522 (1 ÷ 14.55 = 0.68728522)
-- Because I am working with percentages, I move the decimal point two places to the right, and I end up with 6.87% (rounded off to 2 decimal places).
The Bavarian Cream is 6.87% of the total amount of the flavor concentrates used.
When I do the same math, to the rest of the ingredients, I get these results:
View attachment 740783
(NOTE: this recipe (as shown) will make 10mL of flavor base; which would make about 68mL of the original strength recipe)
This is now my flavor base. I can make up as much or as little as I like, and not worry about getting the integrity of the original recipe out of balance.
If I want to make the recipe as the author intended; I would add 14.55% of the flavor base (to my preferred PG, VG, and nic).
If I want to make it stronger than the author's version; I would add more than 14.55% of the flavor base.
If I want to make it weaker than the author's version; I would add less than 14.55% of the flavor base.
Using a flavor base, one can make multiple small testing samples, at various strengths (percentages) to see what percentage works best for you and your device.
Alternate method to make a flavor base:
The e-liquid calculator I use, has a flavor base creation feature, so it is simple. If your calculator does not offer this feature, and you don't want the hassle of doing the math; there is another quick means to make a flavor base. And, that is increasing the original recipe by a specific amount, and omitting the PG, VG, and nic when you make it.
It only requires doing one math calculation. Decide how much flavor base you want to make. Then divide that amount (mL), by the total percentage used. The result is the "volume" you would set the recipe to make.
For an example; I will use the same lemon tart recipe's values, and aim for making 10mL of flavor base:
-- The recipe calls for 14.55% total flavoring.
-- I want 10mL of flavor base.
-- I know my formula is: "desired volume" divided by " total flavoring percentage"
-- Plug in the numbers: 10 (volume) ÷ 0.1455 (percentage) = 68.7285223mL
Then, all I need to do is:
Set the "amount to make" as 68.7mL, and then combine only the flavor concentrates, and I will end up with (just shy of; because I rounded down) 10mL of flavor base.
Yes that can be done; but keep a couple of things in mind.
It is going to double the amount you have. If it doesn't work; it is doubling the amount of ingredients that are going to waste.
If you add only PG, and VG; it will be diluting your flavors by half. This may be counter-productive if your goal is increasing flavor potency. If you mix the reverse PG/VG ratio, with the same amount of flavor concentrates, then you will end up with and undiluted version.
PG creates less clouds than VG.
PG has more throat hit than VG.
Some folks have adverse reactions to PG.
Thinner viscosity, caused by more PG, can cause leaking issues in some toppers (esp. tanks w/o juice flow control).
If these are not a concern for you, then you can mix as high a PG ratio, as you want.
I haven't used more then 50 percent pg so I'm not sure if it will affect me yet. Yeah I am just doin 3 ml of old + 3 ml of new 30/70 with flavouring just to try it out. Since I'm new to this diy stuff I don't use too much at once, although I did make a batch of 20 ml of raspberry custard since it says it needs a 1 month steep . Oh well. Lol. All in all I don't think I wasted too much, maybe 100 ml of eqliuid so far, doing mostly small batches of 10 ml for testing.
Thanks so much everyone ! I never thought of doing it this way and with more Pg and using flavor bases. Much <3 my fellow vapers!
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Get an RDA. You'll be amazed at the difference in flavor.
I have used the Nautilus Mini's and they were not flavor machines for me at all. Finally gave up on them.
I have used the Nautilus Mini's and they were not flavor machines for me at all. Finally gave up on them.
The N2 has a lot going for it, but not necessarily flavor. It's not the worst tank of all time for flavor but it's certainly not the best. It was my quitting tank, and I still feel positive about it but I have for the most part moved on to better flavored tanks and etc. It's possible you may need to try some other equipment, although I do think you have flavoring experiments left that you can certainly try. You can get good flavor in the N2 with the right mix. Etc.
Anna
Anna
Well my mod is a target mini.. so the tank needs to be somewhat small to fit on it, I'm not sure what an RDA is .
Might like to read:
Drip Vaping: Your Guide to Dripping e-Juice | Vape-Resource.com
http://spinfuel.com/art-drip-guide-vaping/
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/7-information-resources-for-your-first-rba.4454/
https://quitsmokingcommunity.org/electronic-cigarettes/what-is-an-atomizer-definition/
Rebuildable Tanks Explained: RBAs vs RDAs vs RTAs vs RDTAs
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/wrapping-building-coils-101-for-beginners.745045/
http://www.geekayvapes.com/squonking-101/
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/i-love-my-rda.805461/#post-19616327
Can't resist my two cents.
Everyone's taste buds differ. Mine are among the worst, hence, I rarely post a recipe because folks with sensitive buds (the majority of folks) go into apoplexy when they see one of mine.
My tasting success:
1. RDA deep well's like a Magma gives me maximum taste. Tanks are great for folks on the go. But nothing, in my opinion, beats a cleaned coil and a new wick.
My Settings,single coil (~3.0/6.4-.5w/32ga;4-6 turns;.11ID;Rayon and as much PG as you can stand).
2.Flavors I can taste. I like only dessert and bakery mixes.(I can taste most fruits and they are too acid/strong tasting for me.):
CA Sugar Cookie,TFA Belgian Waffle,TFA Cinnamon Danish,FW Cinnamon Roll,FA Tiramisu (Booster),LA Cream Cheese Icing,FLV Peanut Butter,TFA Caramel Original,TFA RY4 (Double) to name a few.
3. All mixes receive a 4 weeks steep.
if you like, PM me and will send a recipe (suggest choose a main base flavor from above).
If find most recipes shine when they are tailored to the vape set up with regards to type of flavor and mix/percentages.
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RDA is an abbreviation for Rebuildable Drip Atomizer.
It's usually the first stage of getting into "rebuildables", which means you make your own coils and wicks. Generally speaking, most vapers agree that this class of juice attachment provides the best flavor of all types of juice attachments.
It can be intimidating to undertake building your own coils and wicks innitially. You'll need some basic "tools of the trade" and learn how to use an ohm's law calculator and a coil building calculator. If you like using your hands, it's really not that difficult.
Explain it to the Dumb Noob: Ohm's Law Calculations for a Mechanical Mod
I don’t have time atm to read all comments. However, I used to have this problem and always will, to a certain extent, due to breaking my nose a couple times. I’ve found a few ways to get optimal flavor, even with issues. Tank selection makes a HUGE difference! A wide bore drip dip helps some too. There are flavors stronger than others which can help used correctly. PM me and I’ll share a recipe I’d almost bet money you’ll taste and love, if you'd like pumpkin & praline waffles w/ cream cheese icing
Interesting thread. I ordered a few old tanks on clearance recently. I will have to adjust my ratios and maybe even percentages to cater to them. A couple are around the 10W range.
Its not really as bad as its been made out to be. Are you going to get the flavor from an aspire that you get from an RDA, No but that doesnt mean you need to go from a Volkswagen beetle to a Ferrari in one jump. It has been my experience mixing for this type of tank to keep things simple. If you want a strawberry juice theres no need to mix ten different flavors to get there. You wont get all the nuances from a complicated mix anyway and it will most likely just muddle it up. Keep it simple, keep it a little on the bright and it should work out just fine.
Man I got to say 50/50 pg vg has helped a lot. I also realized the more simplistic recipes do have more flavor. But maybe it's because they need some steeping. I tried a simple mango,juice peach, and abit of sweetener recipe from diy or die and man, it tastes awesome.
3% mango (flavoh)
1.5% juicy peach (tpa)
0.5% cap sweet
( this is the first recipe I tried where the sweetener works well and doesn't taste artificial )
My strawberry recipe tastes amazing now too.
1% apple Fuji (fa)
1.5 % red touch (fa)
4 % strawberry ripe (tpa)
4% strawberry sweet (cap)
And bronuts recipe is so good ! Wow! Thanks for the suggestions guys, I'm so happy! I've been chain vaping abit hahaha. Hope it's not dangerous to do that, my naut mini tank can get quite hot and the battery gets warm when I do.
Also, I don't want to drip, I feel that is too much hassle. But would a more recent mouth to lung tank like vandyvape berserker mini and kayfun mini v3 give more flavor to the more complex recipes like bakeries, pies, cheesecakes ( so far finding them hard to taste , but may need steeping )? If so, which one would you recommend out of the two? And would I still use 50/50 pg vg in them or 70/30 vg/pg? And do they taste better keeping it above 1 ohms or is it very much the same as nautilus mini?
Big shout out to dc99 ! You saved vaping for me !
3% mango (flavoh)
1.5% juicy peach (tpa)
0.5% cap sweet
( this is the first recipe I tried where the sweetener works well and doesn't taste artificial )
My strawberry recipe tastes amazing now too.
1% apple Fuji (fa)
1.5 % red touch (fa)
4 % strawberry ripe (tpa)
4% strawberry sweet (cap)
And bronuts recipe is so good ! Wow! Thanks for the suggestions guys, I'm so happy!
I've been chain vaping abit hahaha. Hope it's not dangerous to do that, my naut mini tank can get quite hot and the battery gets warm when I do.Also, I don't want to drip, I feel that is too much hassle. But would a more recent mouth to lung tank like vandyvape berserker mini and kayfun mini v3 give more flavor to the more complex recipes like bakeries, pies, cheesecakes ( so far finding them hard to taste , but may need steeping )? If so, which one would you recommend out of the two? And would I still use 50/50 pg vg in them or 70/30 vg/pg? And do they taste better keeping it above 1 ohms or is it very much the same as nautilus mini?
Big shout out to dc99 ! You saved vaping for me !
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Im not a MTL vapor but I do have a couple of friends that love the kayfun prime. I mix for them and they both stay close to 50/50. There are a couple of threads on here just for MTL. If I remember right its called "tootle puffers". Might pick up some good info there.
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