(Florida) Bill Would Block Electronic Cigarettes For Minors

[stevegmu]

Why do adults try it, like it, and keep using it ?

If it's beneficial, why not have it prescribed by the child's doctor ?

Is it more addictive than caffeine ? Where are the studies about what caffeine drinks do to 'children' , particularly the so-called 'energy drinks' ?

It's not carcinogenic. The FDA's studies have been proven to be faulty, inaccurate, and misleading. Meanwhile, there have been numerous studies done by independent and industry labs that prove it is not a carcinogen in and of itself.

It is a drug, it is addictive, but it seems to have more in common with caffeine than it does with alcohol for its potential to do harm.

Oh, Ok, the tired old argument that if something is only as bad as something else, or not quite as bad, then it is OK...

 

[Jman8]

Oh, Ok, the tired old argument that if something is only as bad as something else, or not quite as bad, then it is OK...

IMO, it is and likely will be for a long time to come and interesting argument as it is challenging to imagine any substance being entirely (100%) safe for a child to ingest.

And if nicotine is on the table, then caffeine, and for sure sugar (all addictive) ought to be on the table, if it really is about the kids.
If nicotine is not be sold directly to children, but instead possible for use based on parental decision-making, then same ought to apply to the other substances. Likewise, if possession is the new criteria, then any substance/product that contains caffeine or sugar, and is possessed by a child, it ought to be met with whatever enforcement would be granted to a child possessing a nicotine product.

Pretty soon, there will be no popular products that are able to be sold, possessed, used by a minor. And not too long after that, it'll be challenging to understand what, if anything, could a child ingest that would meet the criteria of absolutely, and undeniably safe.

 

[Bill Godshall]

The bill was unanimously approved by the Florida Senate Cmte, but don't know if it was amended.

 

[f1vefour]

The bill was unanimously approved by the Florida Senate Cmte, but don't know if it was amended.

Thanks for the update Bill.

 

[ennagizer]

Yes, thanks very much for the update, Bill. Very much appreciated.

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

http://www.miamiherald.
com/2014/02/20/3949536/proposed-florida-law-would-ban.html

On Thursday, a Senate panel approved a proposal that would ban the sale of e-cigarettes to minors.
<snip>
Senate Bill 224 had already won the unanimous support of two other committees. It could likely be among the first proposals heard on the Senate floor when the legislative session begins March 4.

 

[Jordantii]

I see no problem with banning the sale to minors. Whats the problem with that??

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

I see no problem with banning the sale to minors. Whats the problem with that??

Forum is for legislation news. Both worthy legislation and dreadful proposals. Although hardly any vaping legislation is in the first category, there are exceptions like this one

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

HB 169 is similar to SB 224, doees it have any additional provisions? I'm not seeing any on a quick read, but I might've missed something.

See this report: Florida Legislature: Budget, E-cigarettes, Juvenile sentencing and school guns | The News-Press | news-press.com

Minors wouldn’t be able to buy electronic cigarettes under one proposal ready for a full Senate vote and another working its way through House committees. The Senate on Tuesday teed up its measure (SB 224), sponsored by Senate Majority Leader Lizbeth Benacquisto, R-Fort Myers, for a full vote as early as Thursday. The bill would add nicotine dispensing devices, but not nicotine patches, to the list of tobacco products prohibited for sale to people under age 18. The bill also would make it illegal for minors to possess electronic cigarettes and associated products. Hours later, the House Government Operations Appropriations Committee unanimously supported a similar proposal (HB 169) that would ban the sale of electronic cigarettes to minors and would also create statewide regulations that supersede local-government rules regarding the products. “We cannot have 415 cities and 67 different counties having different types of e-cigarette laws,” said Rep. Frank Artiles, R-Miami, one of the bill’s sponsors. Florida League of Cities lobbyist Casey Cook expressed concern that the bill would remove existing ordinances that in some cases control where products are placed.

Here: FL H0169 | 2014 | Regular Session | LegiScan

 

[Bill Godshall]

Either one of these bills would be OK.

While I prefer the terms "alternative nicotine products" and "vapor products" to "nicotine dispensing devices" and "nicotine products", the latter two terms are much better than "electronic smoking devices" (that ANTZ are lobbying to legally define e-cigs).

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

Either one of these bills would be OK.

While I prefer the terms "alternative nicotine products" and "vapor products" to "nicotine dispensing devices" and "nicotine products", the latter two terms are much better than "electronic smoking devices" (that ANTZ are lobbying to legally define e-cigs).

So in a nutshell you prefer SB 224 but not by much?

There's something else going on out there in "weird FL" ... check out some of these stories:

Anti-smoking groups work to kill...

Turns out that a bunch of ANTZ orgs are mounting a campaign against HB 169 - and not because of how it defines vaping.

The reason is that 169 contains a "preemption" feature that would prevent local jurisdicitons from passing their own stricter statutes, and the ANTZ orgs (correctly) see this as a problem for them, since presumably they can't get local health boards to lobby local jurisdictions for things like Draconian merchandising display requirements that might deter adults from trying vaping, and so forth.

Right now, the ANTZ orgs are (as usual) pushing against the proverbial open door as it were.

If nothing else, this gives them the opportunity to soak up press coverage and spew unrelated propaganda - they're so much better at creating headlines than we are.

 

[Bill Godshall]

Roger inquired

So in a nutshell you prefer SB 224 but not by much?

No, I prefer HB 169 because it would preempt (i.e. prohibit) local governments in Florida from banning e-cig sales to adults and/or from imposing other unwarranted e-cig marketing/display/sales restrictions.

That's also why the ANTZ are now opposing HB 169.


What I previously meant was that I preferred bills defining e-cigs as "nicotine dispensing devices" to bills defining them as "electronic smoking devices".

 

[stan77]

Banning the sale of ecigs to minors is a good thing. Criminalizing minor for possession is a very bad thing.

 

[classwife]

I received an ACTION ALERT email from a Florida Supplier asking for people to contact their representative tomorrow, Monday morning.

snipetts from the email :

HB169

This bill has already passed with a unanimous vote in the Florida Senate, and has been placed on special order calendar in the Florida House of Representatives for this Tuesday, April 22nd, 2014.

This bill is expected to pass into law unless immediate opposition and action is displayed by Florida vapers.

Your House Representative has until 2pm tomorrow, Monday April 21st, to submit any amendments to the bill.

If this bill is allowed to pass into law with the current language, online Florida businesses may be forced to stop online sales to Florida customers on July 1st, 2014.

 

[B2L]

Just got this from Wizard Labs, sorry it is so long but this explains some things and is important.


Dear Fellow Floridian,

I am writing to you because a new Florida law could directly affect your access to vaping supplies.
There is a bill that is about to be passed in the Florida House of Representatives which could possibly be used to eliminate online sales of nicotine, e-liquids and e-cigarettes to adults in Florida.
House Bill 169 (HB169) is intended to prevent the sale and possession of electronic cigarettes and e-liquids to minors under the age of 18.
Although Wizard Labs is a strong supporter of 18+ regulation for the ecig industry, this bill has language restricting sale and delivery of nicotine products which could be used to eliminate access to online vaping supplies by adults of legal age in Florida.

We are urging every Florida vaper to contact their representative tomorrow, Monday morning, and express your concern that any new regulations do not restrict legal adult access to online alternative nicotine products, which could lead to negative consequences by forcing some adult e-cigarette users back to smoking tobacco cigarettes.
If you do not know which State House Representative you should contact for your district, you can find out by entering your address, and city on the following webpage:
Florida House of Representatives - Find Your Representative

Although most of the bill contains reasonable and common sense regulations to prevent e-cigarette usage by minors, the following parts of the bill which could directly affect you as an adult vaper of legal age are as follows:

The following language from HB169 Section 11 places new restrictions on how ecigs and e-liquids can be sold after July 1st, 2014:
Quote:
"(11) RESTRICTIONS ON SALE OR DELIVERY OF NICOTINE PRODUCTS OR NICOTINE DISPENSING DEVICES.—
(a) In order to prevent persons under 18 years of age from purchasing or receiving nicotine products or nicotine dispensing devices, the sale or delivery of such products or devices is prohibited, except:
1. When under the direct control, or line of sight where effective control may be reasonably maintained, of the retailer of nicotine products or nicotine dispensing devices or such retailer's agent or employee;"

What this means in simple terms are that all future sales of electronic cigarettes, e-liquids, and liquid nicotine in Florida must be conducted in face-to-face transactions at retail stores.
This bill currently makes no exceptions for legal online sales to adults.

HB169 defines nicotine products as:
"any product that contains nicotine, including liquid nicotine, that is intended for human consumption, whether inhaled, chewed, absorbed, dissolved, or ingested by any means"
HB169 defines nicotine dispensing devices as:
"any product that employs an electronic, chemical or mechanical means to produce vapor from a nicotine product, including, but not limited to, an electronic cigarette, electronic cigar, electronic cigarillo, electronic pipe, or other similar device or product, any replacement cartridge for such device, and any other container of nicotine in a solution or other form intended to be used with or within an electronic cigarette, electronic cigar, electronic cigarillo, electronic pipe, or other similar device or product."

Link to the Bill details and history on the Florida House website: Florida House of Representatives - CS/CS/CS/HB 169 - Tobacco and Nicotine Product Regulation

Link to a PDF of the full Bill text of HB169: https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2014/0169/BillText/c3/PDF

We believe this is a heavy-handed approach which will unfairly limit access to an effective alternative for many adult smokers and vapers in Florida.
We urge all Floridians affected by this bill to email and phone their House Representative tomorrow morning and ask them to vote NO on HB169 until such time as the language of this bill is amended to include protections for legal adult access to online alternative nicotine products.
These protections could reasonably include the use of modern online age verification software, adult signature requirements for mailed packages, or other form of ID and age verification for adult consumers, none of which are currently included in this bill.

Again, If you do not know which State House Representative you should contact for your district, you can find out by entering your address, and city on the following webpage:
Florida House of Representatives - Find Your Representative
The Capitol Office phone number for your State House representative is on the first page next to their photo.
To email your representative, click on the Full Detail button under your State House representative’s photo, and an Email Representative button will be available on the next page.

This bill has already passed with a unanimous vote in the Florida Senate, and has been placed on special order calendar in the Florida House of Representatives for this Tuesday, April 22nd, 2014.
This bill is expected to pass into law unless immediate opposition and action is displayed by Florida vapers.
Your House Representative has until 2pm tomorrow, Monday April 21st, to submit any amendments to the bill.

If this bill is allowed to pass into law with the current language, Wizard Labs, and other online Florida businesses may be forced to stop online sales to Florida customers on July 1st, 2014.
Please take a few moments to send a well thought and respectful email to your representative tonight, and please follow up with a phone call to their Capitol office phone number tomorrow morning.

Together we can help shape responsible and common sense regulations for our state.


Sincerely,

John MacLeod
Wizard Labs
6808 Hanging Moss Rd
Orlando, FL 32807
(321) 422-0803


You have received this email as a Florida customer of Wizard Labs. We do not normally send newsletters or advertisements to our customers, but because this Florida legislation could directly affect your rights as our customer, we felt the need to inform you with this letter.
If you do not wish to receive any notice of this kind, please reply to this email with the subject line “Remove Me”.



This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.

 

[dmska]

I sent an email to my Representative, as I am not certain how this would affect online sales?

 

[clnire]

OK, the mail from Wizard Labs has been posted. I received the email also and it is of great concern to me. The wording could be twisted to ban the sales of all online nicotine/ecig products in Florida. I live in Florida and that directly affects me. I am not against restrictions to minors, it is restrictions to responsible adults for whom ecigarettes have give a new lease on life.

I plan to email, write and call my representative(s) tomorrow morning. Please help in any way you can!

Are there any links to sample emails? I want to be as clear and informative as possible.

Thank you.

 

[Burnie]

Just got this from Wizard Labs, sorry it is so long but this explains some things and is important.


Dear Fellow Floridian,

~snip~

Got the same thing today, got to do something about it. Tomorrow I am going to wright some emails to see if I can help. But in the mean time I placed an order for Nic, even though I have enough to last for a couple of years, but never hurts to be prepared when it hits this close to home. WE have GOT to stop this...... I Agree with the under 18 part, but not stopping online sales, we have no vape stores here, and the price would be through the roof anyway.

Vape On
Burnie

 

[rexy]

Yes, if someone has a nicely worded message they could post that would be greatly appreciated!

 

[sonicdsl]

Please see Bill's notes on this earlier in the thread, particularly here:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...lectronic-cigarettes-minors.html#post12795643