Focalecig chat...Part 2

Status
Not open for further replies.

Nikkita6

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 7, 2011
8,970
18,956
New York
I wonder what the price point will be? Wonder if they are going after the istick market seeing how popular they are? Let me put on my helmet before I say this, OK here goes, I have an istick coming, it will be here tomorrow if the post man isn't "overwhelmed" again. :glare: I know, I know..... I can hear you already but in my defense (if there is any lol) it was a hell of a deal during the holiday sales, $21.48 shipped from Central Vapors, for that price how bad can it be? :rolleyes: Beside's I can't have too many battery's for my clearo's & tank's, and I spent more then that on my Spinner II's. One thing I'll be doing right off the bat is taking it apart and see if I can convert it to take a regular 18650, if I can do that then it will be a big win. :)

Hun .. why would anyone beat you up over getting an istick? Good for you, its seems like you got a great deal, and I hope you love it. :)
 

KTMRider

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 5, 2014
4,538
18,079
NJ
I wonder what the price point will be? Wonder if they are going after the iStick market seeing how popular they are? Let me put on my helmet before I say this, OK here goes, I have an iStick coming, it will be here tomorrow if the post man isn't "overwhelmed" again. :glare: I know, I know..... I can hear you already but in my defense (if there is any lol) it was a hell of a deal during the holiday sales, $21.48 shipped from Central Vapors, for that price how bad can it be? :rolleyes: Beside's I can't have too many battery's for my clearo's & tank's, and I spent more then that on my Spinner II's. One thing I'll be doing right off the bat is taking it apart and see if I can convert it to take a regular 18650, if I can do that then it will be a big win. :)

I've had one for a couple of months. It's great for what it is and at its price point. It also brought on the Mini revolution which is a great thing. The biggest flaw is that it fires at Vavg and doesn't step down so 4v minimum. It works great on my KF's but probably not for most clearo's. The 510 threads aren't very good or sturdy and often strip. I replaced one with a VT 510 but had to raise it a couple of mm's to clear the fire button mechanism. I loved the small size.

The battery might be a 18650 but the few that I opened looked like it might be a Lipo. You'll have to solder the connectors onto the battery if you swap it out. I didn't think it was worth the trouble. I found it wasn't worth trying to fix so I just bought a VS DNA 30.
 

Burnie

The Bug Man
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 1, 2009
5,564
18,197
Sunny Florida
well i understand that aspect. I would 100% rather buy authentic mods than clones. but for atomizers, they are literally just pieces of metal cut and shapen a certain way, it just doesnt make sense to me sometimes why some authentics are in the 100$+ range while clones can go as low as the 10$ range. the price markup just seems way to high. Say, if it were reasonably priced i would no doubt buy the authentic to support the original maker of the product. In fact I have done that with the mutation X's, ive bought the clone and cigreen-x knockoff, and loved them so much i decided to buy the 30-40$ authentic. And to be fair, i could tell no difference in performance between the original and knockoffs. machining was fine, finish was fine, and none of them have let me down yet. as for some of those 120$+ rebuildables that cost as much as mods =\ , id like to see them be less greedy with that huge price tag tacked on.

Real Simple there. What is YOUR wage per hour of work? Would you work for what they get paid in China? From what I have read their wage is around $.25 (Cents) per hour, WAY BELOW minimum wage here. So if you figure it takes 3 hours to do all the milling, cleaning, polishing, packaging, Etc on ONE device (whatever it is), in China it cost $.75 (cents) labor, in the US it cost $60 (dollars) Labor (being conservative) plus material cost. Then the Company has to make a profit, normally around 30% to 40% markup over cost. Labor cost is the reason for the big price difference. IMHO

Look up the video "Death by China video" Here is One version on youtube.


Vape On
Burnie
:vapor:
 

roxynoodle

Unregistered Supplier
ECF Veteran
Jun 19, 2014
15,344
37,213
Ohio
Real Simple there. What is YOUR wage per hour of work? Would you work for what they get paid in China? From what I have read their wage is around $.25 (Cents) per hour, WAY BELOW minimum wage here. So if you figure it takes 3 hours to do all the milling, cleaning, polishing, packaging, Etc on ONE device (whatever it is), in China it cost $.75 (cents) labor, in the US it cost $60 (dollars) Labor (being conservative) plus material cost. Then the Company has to make a profit, normally around 30% to 40% markup over cost. Labor cost is the reason for the big price difference. IMHO

Look up the video "Death by China video" Here is One version on youtube.


Vape On
Burnie
:vapor:


Yep. What we consider a living wage is significantly higher than what workers are paid in China.
 

BrushyHillGuide

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 1, 2014
276
286
Sabinal, TX
well i understand that aspect. I would 100% rather buy authentic mods than clones. but for atomizers, they are literally just pieces of metal cut and shapen a certain way, it just doesnt make sense to me sometimes why some authentics are in the 100$+ range while clones can go as low as the 10$ range. the price markup just seems way to high. Say, if it were reasonably priced i would no doubt buy the authentic to support the original maker of the product. In fact I have done that with the mutation X's, ive bought the clone and cigreen-x knockoff, and loved them so much i decided to buy the 30-40$ authentic. And to be fair, i could tell no difference in performance between the original and knockoffs. machining was fine, finish was fine, and none of them have let me down yet. as for some of those 120$+ rebuildables that cost as much as mods =\ , id like to see them be less greedy with that huge price tag tacked on.

I'll try to explain it.

If YOU decided, "hey, I've got a great idea for an atomizer. I'm going to design it and bring it to market." You would have to invest thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars into prototypes. Or maybe you have a $500,000 machine shop - but in that case you still have the payments in that machinery. Once you have the design.....you can't take it to the Chinese because you know they will steal the design and produce your product in vast quantities without paying you a dime. So, you look for a reputable manufacturer in the US to make it. That means a company that has to pay their workers too dollar, provide insurance and meet all the goofy regulations the government imposes. So, the most you can afford to have made are 5000 attys. That means they will each be about 7x more expensive than a Chinese company that can afford to make 200,000 units and did not put out ANY expense for R&D and doesn't have to pay their workers didly squat or comply with ANY regulations besides being good members of the communist party.

I realize it's very hard for many people to understand how expensive things REALLY are to produce; because we've become enamored with "cheap" goods produced by virtual slave labor in 3rd world countries. I'm sure that there IS a pretty good markup on authentic attys but good God, there needs to be!! If there wasn't, hardly anyone could or would get involved in developing them. And while China certainly deserves credit for their contributions, imagine what we would have if every one of those devices that have been cloned hadn't been invented. What would these companies' product list look like if they ONLY sold devices that they (or other Chinese companies) developed?

Here's something to consider: have you EVER seen a "clone" of a Chinese invention?? How about a clone of a Aspire Atlantis or a eLeaf Lemo? Isn't it funny that they can clone a U.S. made atty like a Plume Veil and sell it for under $20 (before the authentic hits the retail shelves) but you never see a cloned Lemo? Hrmmmmm. I wonder if that has something to do with them abiding by and respecting the patents of their own countrymen? Somehow I don't think the Chinese government would tolerate the unfair business practices amongst their own companies that they openly encourage outside their own borders. Really, it's incredibly despicable.

Look, I get ya. I don't enjoy shelling out $120 for an dripper. But I've been self employed for most of my adult life and I'm well aware of the costs of operating a business in this country. When you say attys are, "just pieces of metal cut and shapen a certain way" you're SO wrong. What you're not seeing is all the money that it takes to arrive at that little miracle. I tried to explain it just a little up above. If YOU took your time and money and risk and ingenuity and developed an atty and brought it to market, how would you appreciate people buying it from a pirate that stole your design? It's like taking food out of the mouths of their kids. It is to me, anyway. If I don't want to pay their price, I'll buy something cheaper. But the ONE THING I WONT DO is buy a pirated version of their device. That's flat theft and I won't participate.

That's not to mention the working conditions in Chinese (and other 3rd world countries) factories or all the nefarious activities of their government. Do a little reading about China - conditions and the government - and see if you're comfortable contributing to their illegal, unethical and immoral activities. I'm not. I'll buy stuff they develop, but not the stuff they steal. I guess I have too much pride for my own people and respect for their inventions. Call me crazy.

Honestly, I'm not sure how this whole "clone" thing is getting past customs. It's counterfeiting, plain and simple. I think one day C&BP is going to snap to all this and they're going to shut down clone sales just like they aggressively pursue counterfeit goods of all sorts at ports all over the country.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Nailz

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
  • Jun 6, 2013
    6,582
    30,401
    Wichita, KS
    Here's something to consider: have you EVER seen a "clone" of a Chinese invention?? How about a clone of a Aspire Atlantis or a eLeaf Lemo? Isn't it funny that they can clone a U.S. made atty like a Plume Veil and sell it for under $20 (before the authentic hits the retail shelves) but you never see a cloned Lemo? Hrmmmmm. I wonder if that has something to do with them abiding by and respecting the patents of their own countrymen? Somehow I don't think the Chinese government would tolerate the unfair business practices amongst their own companies that they openly encourage outside their own borders. Really, it's incredibly despicable.

    Yes I have seen a clone of a chinese atty, the fogger is by a chinese company and has been cloned :p

    I'm not going to comment on your topic of authentic and clones, as this is not the thread for that, if you don't agree with clones, that is your choice, but no need to come in a thread and preach your views, make your own thread and rant about it, and that's all I have to say :)
     

    BrushyHillGuide

    Senior Member
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Sep 1, 2014
    276
    286
    Sabinal, TX
    One other point. China has a LOOOOOONG track record of cutting corners and using inferior and downright dangerous materials in all sorts of exported items. From lead paint in infant toys to defective strollers that can collapse and choke children to death. Their product have more, and more serious, recalls than any other nation. Is that $19.99 clone worth it if you come to find out in 5 years that you've been vaping with some lead impregnated metal or some other dangerous material. If that happens, I'll bet the $100 you saved will not be such a great savings any more. There have been some recent threads on some questionable materials being used by some prominent Chinese vaping companies, like Aspire. Doesn't that instill confidence in the quality and safety of those counterfeit devices?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    BrushyHillGuide

    Senior Member
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Sep 1, 2014
    276
    286
    Sabinal, TX
    Yes I have seen a clone of a chinese atty, the fogger is by a chinese company and has been cloned :p

    I'm not going to comment on your topic of authentic and clones, as this is not the thread for that, if you don't agree with clones, that is your choice, but no need to come in a thread and preach your views, make your own thread and rant about it, and that's all I have to say :)

    You're right. There are a couple of exceptions. But, when you look at all the clones being offered, 99.8% are clones of non-Chinese products. But you're absolutely right and I should have mentioned the few exceptions.

    Hey, I was simply answering a question that was posted. Sorry you don't like truth being told. Since there is no central theme to this thread, I don't think there was anything inappropriate about answering a question posted by another member.

    I have no issue with this company and will order Chinese products from them. I did not come in here to preach and would not have said a word had someone else not asked for an explanation. Why don't you tell them THAT was not an appropriate question? Or is it just stuff YOU don't want to hear that's inappropriate? Sheesh.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited:

    SlickWilly

    Tinkerer
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Feb 18, 2013
    1,275
    20,835
    NY
    Well I have read some folks looking down on the iStick on other threads so I figured they ranked low. I run my rebuilt clearo heads at 3.8 to 4 volts on my Vamo, seem's like I'd be able to run them on this but if not I have other stuff I can use it with. I saw the price and figured I have paid more then that for some of the Vision Spinner II's I have so why not grab one. Not that I needed it, just can't pass up a deal, I have times when tend to go broke saving money LoL. I have seen folks say the 510 strips out, I'll just leave an ego adapter in it and that will solve that problem.
     

    roxynoodle

    Unregistered Supplier
    ECF Veteran
    Jun 19, 2014
    15,344
    37,213
    Ohio
    I have almost all cheap gear so it would be ironic of me to put it down :laugh: For the price you got it, its a steal. I don't care for devices being this inaccurate, but for the price point, its fine :)

    And yes, there IS a point to this thread! Its to discuss products sold by Focalecig. Many of those items are clones. So definitely not the thread to come bash them in.

    BTW, there are clones of Kanger and Aspire tanks. Clones of their coils. Clones of the iStick. Those are all Chinese. Most vaping devices aren't patented. The process takes too long, and the industry is expanding too quickly. So its really not stealing to copy an unpatented design. Stealing trademarked names and logos is different. And sometimes the authentic makers go after that. Which they should. I have an authentic SquapeR and a Kingtu clone. The clone has no logo. That's fine by me. It vapes the same as my authentic, and I'm not trying to pass it off as authentic.
     

    Judge Dredd

    Reviewer / Blogger
    Supporting Member
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Nov 4, 2012
    1,999
    1,000
    127.0.0.1
    One other point. China has a LOOOOOONG track record of cutting corners and using inferior and downright dangerous materials in all sorts of exported items. From lead paint in infant toys to defective strollers that can collapse and choke children to death. Their product have more, and more serious, recalls than any other nation. Is that $19.99 clone worth it if you come to find out in 5 years that you've been vaping with some lead impregnated metal or some other dangerous material. If that happens, I'll bet the $100 you saved will not be such a great savings any more. There have been some recent threads on some questionable materials being used by some prominent Chinese vaping companies, like Aspire. Doesn't that instill confidence in the quality and safety of those counterfeit devices?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    While I do not necessarily disagree with you, please take this discussion to another thread.
     

    G-weezy

    Ultra Member
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Apr 16, 2014
    1,795
    4,086
    Minneapolis
    Welcome home baby :laugh:

    O you know it mommy. I've been on a wild goose chase. Need a home to come back to. Seems like Nailz is the King of the thread and threw my highness to the woods. That's when me come in and scoop her off before she falls.

    Lol all good. I'm humble to be part of a 1000' thread that needs a "part 2" baby.
     

    halfempty

    Super Member
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Jan 25, 2014
    834
    2,916
    Miami, FL
    I like that Sig mini. Am I that boring today or does it look decent? :laugh:
    Don't tell Nikki or Nailz, but I tend to like simple functional designs too. That doesn't mean I don't also like sexy and elegant, but it doesn't have to be one or the other. It just can't be fugly or gaudy.
     

    halfempty

    Super Member
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Jan 25, 2014
    834
    2,916
    Miami, FL
    Oooh, a new thread to post to. I'll have to learn how to take good pics. I'll have a few weeks after my triple bypass this weekend so I guess I'll spend some of it taking vape porn ;l

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab S 8.4 using Xparent Purple Tapatalk 2
    My wishes for a speedy and healthy recovery go out to you. :thumb:
     
    Status
    Not open for further replies.

    Users who are viewing this thread