Which is why he isn't any kind of hero to me. Playing both sides is lucrative, but dishonest. Always will be.
It's funny how we hate that in politicians, but somehow its "okay" that Mr. Winston does it now that he agrees with "us".
I don't see it as lucrative for Winston Man to play on side of ANTZ and for sure not lucrative to play against side of ANTZ. It was lucrative for him to play on side of BT, which I'm thinking is your main contention.
I'm also not seeing him as being dishonest at any point except when he was on side of ANTZ. Easy to insinuate that he was dishonest when on side of BT, but wasn't like he was engaged in deceptive tactics we've all come to loathe/hate about BT. More like how us (ex)smokers made claims about enjoying logs (traditional cigs) at time we were using them, but then years later we feel different about those same claims we made. Like when vaper says, "I don't know how I ever enjoyed stinkies" but if go back 20 years with same person, it wouldn't be dishonest for them to say, "I love my brand of smokes."
When he was on side of ANTZ, he initially was gung ho to get truth (as he saw it) out that smoking can harm/kill people. But realized over time that ANTZ either outright lies or makes up numbers/stats to bolster claims. I'm guessing first time he saw that occurring, it wasn't huge deal for him, even if he questioned it. He possibly saw it then as minor point compared to larger cause. But as he attests to greed and corruption in ANTZ movement, he realized the lies/exaggeration were hurting the cause and destroying credibility of the movement. He did still stand on side of 'don't smoke, it's harmful' but due to crisis of conscience couldn't be affiliated any longer with camp that he felt lacked integrity to deliver that message.
Okay, first, he wasn't hating on BT. He took their gobs of $$ and became a poster boy for their product.
This misses the point of what you had quoted me saying, but I don't deny that he got gobs of money for being poster boy for BT. Neither does he deny this.
Then, when the tide started to turn for BT, and their lies were exposed, he became a BT hater. (and I do find it hard to believe he didn't know this many many years before he admitted to it.)
He questioned it before the tide turned as you are choosing to put it. He became a "BT hater" when he wanted to get out of being poster boy and had seen relatives die from what he presumed to be effects of smoking. But as he tells it, "BT hater" isn't exactly what he was up to. Where he was when he left ANTZ camp is pretty much where he's been ever since he left camp of BT. He just got associated with blatant BT haters and was dealing with enormous sense of guilt he put on his self for being what he saw (and many others saw) as partial to lies of BT.
Now he is an ANTZ hater and harm reduction poster boy.
This guy goes wherever the wind blows, he's probably trying to figure out where his next $ is gonna come from, and desperate to figure out what *role* he can play next. He's already been on 3 bases.....is there a 4th?
See, all this above is your judgments that I'd love to see backed up with whatever links or information you care to bring to the table. He is ANTZ hater in same way many on this forum are, who despise the tactics ANTZ are able to get away with while being in the limelight for how that narrative on tobacco must be sold/told. I don't even know what "ANTZ hater poster boy" looks like or who would be able to fulfill that sort of role, but if there is such a position, I'd like to apply, and don't need money for my services. IMO, he does carry more weight than I probably ever can cause he got to meet the poster boys in the ANTZ camp, hear their lies directly, and hear them say they are lies but are okay (as lies) given the cause. He got to a point relatively quickly where that is not something he wanted to be associated with. People like Bill Godshall and Dr. Siegel come as close as I can think of to this role of "ANTZ hater poster boy" but as they weren't exactly in the heart of the camp of ANTZ, I don't think they'd have the weight that Winston Man has.
Sorry, but just because somebody agrees with me, doesn't mean I can respect them. An for him, I have zero respect, and have outlined why. Opportunists don't get my respect.
I'd be willing to test that out to see if you are consistent with that principle. I'm thinking you are not and are just hating on Winston Man because he was once firmly in BT camp.
To me, ex-smokers (famously) show up as opportunists. Loved smoking when they were smoking, but despise smoking (other smokers and BT) when they kicked the habit. Winston Man, IMO, was caught up in that self induced psychological trap when he kicked the habit, coupled with guilt complex he had from being endorser of the product. He states in interview that when he was with ANTZ he didn't hate smoking, nor smokers. And it was more like he hated his self, which is IMO, very blunt, very honest, but understandably confusing if the guilt complex is alive and well (and sabotaging natural ability for self forgiveness).
I find Winston Man caught in a maze of guilt by association really. And with his maturity that lead him away from ANTZ camp, he was able to embrace a position where he was thinking for himself, expressing a message that wasn't opportunistic but true to his beliefs. He cautions against the addiction to smoking, but refuses to treat smokers as lepers and second class citizens. Whereas ANTZ is engaged in a war not only against smoking and BT, but against smokers. They are all about inducing guilt and feeding that sort of psychology to smokers every chance they get, by any means necessary (junk science being their ally).
IMO, the whole issue of tobacco in our culture is superficially complex, as ANTZ lies permeate our culture and even how we on a vaping forum will discuss the issues. Like, I'm one who considers secondhand smoke as 'cause of death' to be a myth. I'll enter into that debate with anyone at just about anytime, and not speak softly, nor beat around the bush. Yet, I find routinely that when I do, the people amongst us (easily the majority) think if you can't see it as 'cause of death' then that can only mean you think it is entirely healthy and good for you. I think this occurs because of how much the myth has permeated the culture. And thus it works to undermine the truth that we could share toward educating people with regards to smoking use and addiction. I wholeheartedly believe that the majority just assume perpetuate lies and/or not really question the so called facts, rather than think for themselves about what's being sold in anti-smoking campaign. It is rare, though not unheard of, that I come across an ex-smoker who can be honest about smoking, own addiction, own enjoyment from smoking, and how that might help a potential user. Instead, it seems easier to go with message of, "don't start, it's highly addictive, I know, it almost killed me."
As I am one who has gone cold turkey (and never was a hater) and am now moderate smoker, I find it can get more superficially complex because moderate smoking carries with it the ability to overcome the lies, from an experience of very little to no harm from smoking. IMO, it isn't all that complex really, but with the way our culture is and essentially brainwashed to believe that even one smoke is far too many / far too harmful, it certainly and undeniably APPEARS complex. As in, how dare I or anyone claim being a smoker carries with it an experience of little to no harm. Haven't I heard the news? Smoking kills people. Like half a million every year. I must be in denial to think it won't harm me. I must be making up lies and I certainly am dangerous to the anti-smoking movement if I try to perpetuate the idea that moderate smoking brings with it about the same health benefits as regular user of the nicotine patch or gum. Thing is, I'm not a regular user of logs, and no longer crave smoking, even a little bit.
Thinking for myself and using in moderation has its benefits.
Smoker's guilt is no longer on my radar, and ANTZ lies are easily discernible.
Which is probably why I can identify with where Winston Man is today.
