Forward Thinking Major Cigarette Manufacturers

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memnoc

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Is there anything on the horizon from the major cigarette manufacturers(ie Marlboro) getting in on the action? It may be a while before Smoking real cigarettes becomes a note in the history books but we are obviously on our way. Look at how many different ways there are to get nicotine to help you quit. Ofcourse though, some people dont want to quit! They just want a healthier alternative. Most of us wouldnt even consider quiting if it wasnt bad for you! People may continue smoking e-cigs for 100s of years, but real smokes will be gone long before e-cigs. If any major cig producer had any sense, they would already be looking for a way to create their own niche in the market so they may retain their sales revinue.

Yours truly, The anoying neighborhood smoker!(I am still in transition to full blown e-smoking)
 

CaSHMeRe

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memnoc said:
...If any major cig producer had any sense, they would already be looking for a way to create their own niche in the market so they may retain their sales revinue...

interesting ...

I would tend to think the same thing, however, all we know, is they may be leading the fight AGAINST alternatives like e-cigarettes. Cigarette companies have lots of money and I'm sure they have done their research in alternatives, however, would they admit this ... probably not.

If anyone has the money to put together a great e-cig, it would be our current cig manufacturers, like RJ Reynolds, Phillip Morris, etc... Sadly, they will probably spend that money fighting a healthy alternative.

Its almost like asking an oil company to come up with alternative fuels/power sources ....
 

memnoc

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But, some oil companies ARE trying to find alternatives. It is however a different dynamic considering we dont "need" cigarettes the same way we need energy. My father was friends with someone who worked for Phillip Morris in the New development dept. He was given lots of Cigs to try out from smokeless and/or ashless to chocolate flavored and scented. They spend lots of money trying to find creative new ways to entice new smokers and latch on to old ones. I was just hoping someine on this forum may have heard rumors about an e-cig in development from a major cig producer. Which would make e-cigs much more accessible for current e-smokers and help switch more people from the bad smoking, all the while keeping the cig companies from going out of business.
 

TropicalBob

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Look at the Alternatives threads and you'll see notes about the Eclipse and Heatbar. These are Big tobacco's experiments into this kind of venture. The Heatbar is a PM product now being tested Down Under. Eclipse used a heated charcoal lump in its tip to vaporize tobacco for a smoker. All of the alternatives use tobacco -- and that's the big difference. Big Tobacco wants devices that use tobacco.

So ... while we're not privy to private internal affairs ... we see that every major American tobacco company has jumped to snus as the alternative for smokers wanting to quit cigarettes. We now have Camel, Marlboro, and Lucky Strike snus, along with new ones like 1847 from Philip Morris, Tourney and Grand Prix from Liggitt/Vector, and two I can't remember from P. Lorillard. These all use tobacco in tiny teabag-like pouches to deliver nicotine through the mouth. That's what Big Tobacco wants and can profit on.

E-smoking is not their future. It's their future enemy.
 

CaSHMeRe

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memnoc said:
But, some oil companies ARE trying to find alternatives...

Oil companies would be shooting themselves in the foot. You really think they are willing to find an alternative fuel/power and go bankrupt? Not really bud. Just earlier this week the NY times had an article on this ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/14/busin ... ref=slogin

TropicalBob said:
All of the alternatives use tobacco -- and that's the big difference. Big Tobacco wants devices that use tobacco.
-smoking is not their future. It's their future enemy

EXACTLY !!! I even used to smoke "Eclipse" cig's once in a while. Lighting it was interesting (4-5 big inhales before you actually got smoke) but it accomplished what it needed to. The issue her is the premium price and the scarcity of trying to find it. Only found a couple places in Los Angeles selling it, and when they did, they had maybe 1 or 2 cartons.
 

CaSHMeRe

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memnoc said:

... sigh ...

300 mil = tax write off

Big Oil companies don't want to be labeled as such. Its like seeing commercials from Phillip Morris on how to quit smoking and if you would like to find out more information on how to, log-on to their website.

Phillip Morris SURVIVES on the thousands of people (kids and adults) that start smoking each day. They have their Quit Assist program almost as a courtesy so they don't seem like the bad guy.

Big Oil will search for alternative "Fuel" sources (ie: Fossil Fuels, hydrogen, etc...) however, anything involving batteries/or electric power will bankrupt their company. US Based Fuel companies will be able to survive if NO (read: zero) outsourcing takes place. However, if electric power is the next big thing, expect China to be the next Dubai.
 

CaSHMeRe

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memnoc said:
Lets just get back to the point. E-cig use should take over traditional cig use solely because of the health benefits. If that is the case, why wont Big Tobacco try to create their own e-cig? If they lose real smokers and gain e-smokers its a win for both sides. How hard is that tio understand?

and ... if we go back to Figure B ... lol

I just tried to explain it in "Oil"Terms as did TropicalBob.

Tobacco companies are just that ... Tobacco companies. They sell Tobacco. They make things from Tobacco. Anything electronic will undoubtedly not do well being made in the USA. Plain and simple. Outsourcing will become key. Because of this, all the large Tobacco Companies will ignore, or pay good money to fight it and hopefully have the FDA find something wrong with it.

i WISH tobacco companies would research alternatives ... but they won't, plain and simple. E-Cig companies Definitely have an uphill battle to win. Once Tobacco companies start putting money in to stop and fight, its a battle that will be hard to win.

EDIT: p.s. -- not trying to debate you. just aknowledging the reality ...
 

TropicalBob

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Think of the investment Big Tobacco has now in equipment and processes involving natural tobacco products. That's their business! Not electronics. No. Manufacturing electronics is entirely different, mostly done today in China, South Korea, Japan. Our e-cigs don't use tobacco. Our e-cigs would antiquate the present equipment and patents owned by Big Tobacco, and condemn their mass-production machines to museums. If you were Big Tobacco, would take such a threat lightly? I think your first corporate goal would be to protect and expand use of the core product's content -- tobacco.
 

UncleMidriff

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memnoc said:
Lets just get back to the point. E-cig use should take over traditional cig use solely because of the health benefits. If that is the case, why wont Big Tobacco try to create their own e-cig? If they lose real smokers and gain e-smokers its a win for both sides. How hard is that tio understand?

I hear what you're sayin', memnoc, and I agree with you that it would seem to make sense for Big Tobacco to become Big-Whatever-Best-Delivers-A-Super-Addictive-Drug-And-Doesn't-Make-Us-Look-Like-Disney-Movie-Super-Villains. Yet, it appears that Big Tobacco doesn't think like you and I think. It appears that they, sadly, think more along the lines of what Tropical Bob and Cashmere are saying. I offer the following as proof:

I invented e-smoking. Years ago.



:) Before you treat me like a loon, hear me out, please.

I smoked fairly regularly (although lightly) until I got married. I'd managed to hide my smoking from fiancee, but now that she was my wife, it just didn't feel right. So I confessed my habit to her. Obviously, she was not pleased. She didn't nag me about it, but she made it clear that she'd like to have me around past the age of 35, and that being severely overweight AND a smoker was not the right way to go about meeting that goal.

So, fast-forward a few months, and I'm out on the front porch with my older brother on a Saturday evening, ...... off because I'm in the middle of one of my first few quit attempts, my brother is smoking, and I really want a friggin' cigarette. I'm ranting and raving about the tobacco companies:

"Why the *bleepity bleep* are cigarettes so *bleepity bleepin'* dangerous? For freakin' sakes, this is the year 2005, and we can't come up up with a better way to get people their nicotine in an enjoyable way other than to roll up some *bleepity bleepin'* leaves and set them on FIRE?! What are we, cavemen?! And don't give me this nicotine gum/lozenge *bleepity bleep*. Can I blow smoke rings with a lozenge? Do those things even come anywhere near satisfying any of the rituals and habits of smoking? *bleepity bleep* NO! Asthmatics have been inhaling stuff for years, why can't we have something like that?! How about you just have a device that vaporizes a small amount of nicotine whenever you suck on it? And then you could just buy little refill containers when you run out of nicotine? C'mon, Big *bleepity bleepin'* Tobacco! Get to work on that. You don't have to actively kill your best customers! *Bleep*!"

Can you tell I hadn't had a cigarette in a while? :)

That's all in took. It took one halfway intelligent dude being fed up with not being able to lite up because cigarettes are so freaking dangerous to birth the idea of the electronic cigarette. It didn't take billions of dollars and a genius research team. Yet, Big Tobacco has billions of dollars and genius research teams, and all they can come up with is, "Here, we made this lighter cigarette. It only kills you a little bit now! Holy crap are we great or what?!"

My point is, this is not rocket science... it's easy stuff that they should have been looking into years ago. The fact that they obviously haven't tells me that they just don't care to. They, like most people, don't want to change anything unless they absolutely have to change something. Since tobacco is still legal and addictive, I don't see them being interested in changing any time soon.

I'd really like them to prove me wrong though.
 

jamie

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UncleMidriff said:
Since tobacco is still legal and addictive, I don't see them being interested in changing any time soon.

Agree with you and particularly the other comments about them being Tobacco companies, not Electronics companies. Same reason the huge allegedly "stop-cancer" organizations don't make progress with their billions: Radiologists do radiology, which only treats cancer, so no prevention, no cure, only treatments. We'll get no man on the moon from that bunch. Anyway, I digress.

Tobacco is legal - AND free from regulation in the USA. That is probably a bigger stumbling block than all the other points put together for USA Big Tobacco. Folks are sitting on the Law board mostly writing variations of "ecigs will be banned soon." Any reason USA Big Tobacco would have reached a different conclusion?
 
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