Fraud Charges 2nd Time This Year. !!!! Retailers get your **** together!!!
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So why is it just fine to post about some bad experiences and not others? Want to talk about censorship?? I hope that the mods wouldn't delete the post. Unless I'm missing something in the rules... which is entirely possible.
A missing item could just be a simple mistake, no response about it could be a busy couple of days for that vendor. We can complain about that, but not about CC theft?
Ok, generally a missing item is a definite while CC theft is (if it isn't a dedicated vaping CC and the CC in question was used at several places before and after and whatever other exceptions) is a more of a maybe. I get that point... the "potentially" part of it. So the answer is to say nothing?
And how on earth is somebody going to get a lawsuit filed against them for a stolen card number but not a rant about lousy packaging and long shipping times? There are three things that must be proven in a libel suit:
1. A false statement was made.
2. That statment caused harm.
3. The statement was made without investigating the truthfulness of the statement.
If you knew of a vendor (vaping or otherwise) that even threatened to sue a customer over a complaint would you ever shop there? I know I sure wouldn't. So let's not bring in the idea of getting sued. It isn't going to happen.
So again I ask why is this a huge issue?
Is it the word "blacklist"? So call it a "warning list" or "potentially high risk credit/debit card processing issue list"
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What bothers me is to see the same vendors on multiple lists. I, personally, will not name names, because I dont know which vendor/vendors cc processing was to blame. But, I and some others I know will not order from the ones we suspect anymore.
Mabey a small drop in orders will catch someones attention.
Mabey a small drop in orders will catch someones attention.
I have only purchased Vaping stuff from B&Ms. Thank god to the fact I have a whole lot of them local to me. I have been very hesitant on purchasing online at all period. Why? People are making claims and not warning the consumers of which are possibly problematic. So if I don't know which ones are potential risks, I am going to side on the err of caution and assume they are all risky until this gets some sort of resolution or I can find which ones I should be aware of. Threads that make us aware of potential risks can only serve to help the consumer. So far, ONLY THE CONSUMER has been hurt by this issue. The "protected" vendors that are probably not aware of any issues are still raking in revenue while CC numbers are getting stolen.
*By problematic, I mean compromised, whether compromised themselves or using a compromised processor.
*By problematic, I mean compromised, whether compromised themselves or using a compromised processor.
and that's the rub, is it questionable to name vendors we think are the culprits? Yes and No.
There is no simple answer to this. Yeah, I think we should.
If a vendor that is not responsible ends up on a list, maybe they should take notice that there is an issue in the industry and help fight it. Guilt by association may not be politically correct, but hey stereo types aren't exactly either, but you can't deny it either. Stereo Types exist because they are a fact of life, you can't deny a fact and be considered credible. You just can't.
And I hate PC BS. People need to grow up, get a pair and get over themselves and quit taking every last damn thing so frickin seriously.
I don't often walk on egg shells around people, especially once I get to know them. If they can't take sarcasm, jokes, or just a good f'ing with, then I say, "Have a nice life being miserable"
Fact, the sky is blue, just cause you are color blind and can't see that it is blue does not make it fiction.
Trying to denounce that the sky is blue, makes one not credible.
If my grocery store was getting hit like that, yes I would tell people to stay away. And I would stay away.
One time, no, multiple times, yes. If I heard around town that several people got hit over a period of time, yeah I would stay away.
It's not good business, not good for the industry to have this continue, or be ignored.
Which if you read one of my earlier posts I pretty much think I stated so.
I have dealt with about 10 vendors in the last month. all popular, all supposedly trust-able.
If I see fraud charges show up, and I can't determine who the exact vendor is, would I name them all? I think yes.
And note, this cc was only used for very specific stuff and not a lot, over the course of the decade I have had it. No issues.
So I would know within the general realm of where the fraud took place.
It is hard to deny the last place you do business somewhere and all of a sudden fraud charges show up.
Could it have been picked up/stolen months ago? Yes.
But how are you supposed to determine that? You can't really.
But that doesn't mean that it was from when you used it a long time ago or yesterday.
Generally speaking, i would think it would be about one of the last places you used it.
That is what anyone and everyone thinks to go to first.
That is a natural step. (where was the last place I had my keys before I lost them?).
Anyway, ....... ramble over.
There is no simple answer to this. Yeah, I think we should.
If a vendor that is not responsible ends up on a list, maybe they should take notice that there is an issue in the industry and help fight it. Guilt by association may not be politically correct, but hey stereo types aren't exactly either, but you can't deny it either. Stereo Types exist because they are a fact of life, you can't deny a fact and be considered credible. You just can't.
And I hate PC BS. People need to grow up, get a pair and get over themselves and quit taking every last damn thing so frickin seriously.
I don't often walk on egg shells around people, especially once I get to know them. If they can't take sarcasm, jokes, or just a good f'ing with, then I say, "Have a nice life being miserable"
Fact, the sky is blue, just cause you are color blind and can't see that it is blue does not make it fiction.
Trying to denounce that the sky is blue, makes one not credible.
If my grocery store was getting hit like that, yes I would tell people to stay away. And I would stay away.
One time, no, multiple times, yes. If I heard around town that several people got hit over a period of time, yeah I would stay away.
It's not good business, not good for the industry to have this continue, or be ignored.
Which if you read one of my earlier posts I pretty much think I stated so.
I have dealt with about 10 vendors in the last month. all popular, all supposedly trust-able.
If I see fraud charges show up, and I can't determine who the exact vendor is, would I name them all? I think yes.
And note, this cc was only used for very specific stuff and not a lot, over the course of the decade I have had it. No issues.
So I would know within the general realm of where the fraud took place.
It is hard to deny the last place you do business somewhere and all of a sudden fraud charges show up.
Could it have been picked up/stolen months ago? Yes.
But how are you supposed to determine that? You can't really.
But that doesn't mean that it was from when you used it a long time ago or yesterday.
Generally speaking, i would think it would be about one of the last places you used it.
That is what anyone and everyone thinks to go to first.
That is a natural step. (where was the last place I had my keys before I lost them?).
Anyway, ....... ramble over.
PayPal....
Yeah I refuse to use paypal.
If they are threatening people with freezing accounts for purchasing something legal, then I say, why are people still using them?
Vote with your dollars and close your account, when their business starts dropping like flies, trust me, they will change their tune.
I would still refuse to use paypal, but that's just me.
BTW, they may be able to stop you from using their service, but I don't think they can charge you a fine or hold your money.
They are not law enforcement.
However, if you agreed to the TOS and that is part of it, that's the contract you agreed to you, that's your own fault for agreeing to it. Whether you read the TOS or not.
That would be equivalent to you buying a pack of smokes at the store and your bank freezing your account.
They can do that, but they can't prevent you from taking your money out and going somewhere else.
And I don't think they can take 6 months to give your money back to you either.
I don't know, would have to consult a lawyer, but, I just wouldn't use them, or any vendor/company that only accepts paypal.
Yeah I refuse to use paypal.
If they are threatening people with freezing accounts for purchasing something legal, then I say, why are people still using them?
Vote with your dollars and close your account, when their business starts dropping like flies, trust me, they will change their tune.
I would still refuse to use paypal, but that's just me.
BTW, they may be able to stop you from using their service, but I don't think they can charge you a fine or hold your money.
They are not law enforcement.
However, if you agreed to the TOS and that is part of it, that's the contract you agreed to you, that's your own fault for agreeing to it. Whether you read the TOS or not.
That would be equivalent to you buying a pack of smokes at the store and your bank freezing your account.
They can do that, but they can't prevent you from taking your money out and going somewhere else.
And I don't think they can take 6 months to give your money back to you either.
I don't know, would have to consult a lawyer, but, I just wouldn't use them, or any vendor/company that only accepts paypal.
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I agree with you. But another rub is... People saying not to blame the vendor and look at other possibilities, ie other vendors from other industries. To me that is trying to pass the buck and pointing fingers elsewhere. It helps no one at all trying to deflect the problem and to ignore that it exists within the community. I am sure they will be singing a different tune if they became victims themselves.
I understand it seems to be primarily a "battle" between those who have once been victimized and those who have not. Thankfully I have not, and I try my best to protect myself from such, but that protection can only go so far because it is completely out of my hands and I have to trust the people who handle my CC number after I place an online order (regardless of who I purchase from).
Exactly, I won't go back to find my previous post,, it's about the first one I put in this thread where i say as much as you have here.
Since you don't use Paypal I'm not surprised that you don't know about their TOS. Several co-op hosts have had there accounts frozen namely Suthernbuckhunter and Rusalka(Tim Jarvis). Bucky got his unfrozen within a week but Jarvis's was frozen for 3 - 6 months. The proof is in this thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-scuba-gen-v3-native-510-connector-co-op.html I'm not positive about the fine but it's a fact they can hold your money. You can check Bucky's last carto coop for proof of his account getting frozen.
Yesterday I got a call from Citibank that my card had been used for 4 suspicious on-line charges totaling over $3,000, all made yesterday. They canceled my card, and as I asked them to expedite a replacement, Fedex delivered my new card two hours ago.
If you had asked me, I would have sworn my number must have been stolen from a vaping site that I had used for the first time Saturday. But, talking with the agent at Citibank, she told me that since I made that purchase using their virtual number generator, that no one at the vaping site or their processing company had any knowledge of mt real card number, and the fraudulent charges had been made with my real card number
Now, the only purchases I had made with my real card in the last 2 weeks were the local Walgreens and the local Quicktrip, both of which I had used for years and trust.
If I had used my real card number in making Saturday's purchase(an Innokin itaste) I would have been very tempted to post the dealer name, and I most definitely would be warning friends and posters I have know not to buy from them.
I guess right now I am feeling is that it is very hard for us to tell who stole are credit card number. And since the credit card company is the major loser and they have the resources to do so, we should leave the tracking and prosecution of the sources to them.
If you had asked me, I would have sworn my number must have been stolen from a vaping site that I had used for the first time Saturday. But, talking with the agent at Citibank, she told me that since I made that purchase using their virtual number generator, that no one at the vaping site or their processing company had any knowledge of mt real card number, and the fraudulent charges had been made with my real card number
Now, the only purchases I had made with my real card in the last 2 weeks were the local Walgreens and the local Quicktrip, both of which I had used for years and trust.
If I had used my real card number in making Saturday's purchase(an Innokin itaste) I would have been very tempted to post the dealer name, and I most definitely would be warning friends and posters I have know not to buy from them.
I guess right now I am feeling is that it is very hard for us to tell who stole are credit card number. And since the credit card company is the major loser and they have the resources to do so, we should leave the tracking and prosecution of the sources to them.
And if it weren't for a few threads exactly like this one, AVE would never have discovered the vulnerability in their system and corrected it. If you'll recall, Ben even thanked the ECF and Reddit communities for providing the light detective work.
You might also recall that BWB was another vendor "implicated" during that particular round of fraud alerts. It took about two days for them to put a notice on their front page that assured customers that they were auditing their payment system. That's precisely the sort of proactive stance we should expect from the online vendors we deal with.
I will not boycott vendors who "might" have a security issue, regardless of how many lists I see them on. Truthfully, I'm far less likely to deal with those that frown upon or scoff at the efforts of their supporting communities to pinpoint where the vulnerability is by compiling and sharing the lists in the first place.
Done and done. Not only did I cancel my Paypal account after they banned e-cigs and supplies, but I also wrote them a letter and informed them why I canceled a 10+ year old preferred account that had seen frequent use up until that point. I won't use them again until they fix their stupidity.
As for whether or not they can freeze accounts, Paypal isn't regulated, by anyone, or at least they weren't the last time I checked. If it's still the same, they don't have to follow banking or credit card rules so can do anything they want. Try doing a google search for Paypal complaints sometime when you have the time, but have plenty of nicotine on hand. They will freeze a person's account just on hearsay and depending on the "charge" that person will be lucky to get their money back at all. Granted I know the old saying that there is his story and their story with the truth somewhere in the middle, but the number of similar reports is pretty telling.
My fraud was attempted use after I had used the card at Enterprise car rental and Hardees. The CC company caught the purchases as outside of my norm and declined them so no one was out any money. But it was a HUGE pain in the rear to wait for a new card and then contact the companies I have monthly payments with to get them all set up to the new card. Huge pain!! I do tons of vape shopping every month, but I'm really more suspicious of the two places I handed my card over to right before I was compromised.
I've just decided to run with 2 credit cards from now on. The one that has my monthly payments on it will never see an online purchase again. Of course that won't keep it completely safe, but it will knock out a lot of possibilities. If the other one gets hit, well that's the CC company's problem. Since it won't have any cycling bills on it, it won't be any real aggravation to cut it up and wait for another.
Found a thread on reddit about one of the big online DIY vape suppliers in that list. My wife ordered from them 2 months ago and 2 or 3 days later her card company fraud prevention people are calling because someone was using her card number ..so she got a new card.
A few days ago we order some nicotine base and flavors again from the same place and now same thing with the new card today, this time with much bigger charges and have to get a new card again. If people are reporting suspected active card fraud right after using your site it needs to be acknowledged and looked into regardless of where the bad link in your online transaction chain is, not hidden and blown off until you have a multitude of ...... off people talking about you on the not so vendor friendly rest of the internet.
A few days ago we order some nicotine base and flavors again from the same place and now same thing with the new card today, this time with much bigger charges and have to get a new card again. If people are reporting suspected active card fraud right after using your site it needs to be acknowledged and looked into regardless of where the bad link in your online transaction chain is, not hidden and blown off until you have a multitude of ...... off people talking about you on the not so vendor friendly rest of the internet.
I'm not sure how far back people are looking here, but I've also ordered there (ECX) in addition to GotVapes, VapingZone, HighDesert, WizardLabs, and MadVapes. I had a comparably small fraudulent charge (~$230) in mid-December. I actually suspected a different vendor at the time due to a very closely timed purchase when there was a pricing mistake made on their system (during GV's 12 days of Christmas) but I have no evidence implicating any vendor.
At the end of the day, what do you all think we'll come up with: A vendor that has a real issue, or just the name of the most popular vendor out there?
At the end of the day, what do you all think we'll come up with: A vendor that has a real issue, or just the name of the most popular vendor out there?
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