General condition of the vapor/e-cig hardware industry

[underice]

I would say that all the models you bought other than the Kgo were crap models. When you think of what you pay for any of these models (assuming you didn't buy some of the over-hyped, over priced models), it's hard to expect these to last for years.

There are models that come with lifetime and/or full 2 year warranties, which is what I use. The old adage that you get what you pay for has merit. Get one of these better models and you will not have these issues for the most part. Atomizers, cartomizers and tanks need to be viewed as consumables.

Price is not a differentiator. For example, the Elite 808 starter kit and the KGo starter kit are roughly the same price. Not only that, but the KGo had a fault right out of the chute as well. There's been no distinct dependability difference across any of the models I've tried. That's the main point and why I posted the original question.

Additionally, no one expects years and the fact that something is a consumable doesn't justify a high rate of failure out of the box.

Re-writable dvd's are consumables and no one would accept the same rate of failure and/or poor quality that I've found in cartomizers etc.

 

[MickeyRat]

Yes but, there actually is something different about the PV market and I certainly haven't seen it in my lifetime. Most people hear about PVs from the worst possible vendors. Do a google search for best e-cigarette you're going to get mostly rip-off companies. Companies like Green Smoke, South Beach or (serious shudder) White Cloud. When people look at brick and mortar retailers, they are selling kits you can get at dealextreme for $10 for $100. I happened to have a lot of experience with forums before I bought my first crummy kit from a retailer. So, when I realized what I bought wasn't going to do it but, thought there might be something that would, I went hunting for a forum. You might have too but, most people won't. Until people, especially retailers, are more knowledgeable about these devices, the problems you are mentioning will continue.

 

[wv2win]

Price is not a differentiator. For example, the Elite 808 starter kit and the KGo starter kit are roughly the same price. Not only that, but the KGo had a fault right out of the chute as well. There's been no distinct dependability difference across any of the models I've tried. That's the main point and why I posted the original question.

Additionally, no one expects years and the fact that something is a consumable doesn't justify a high rate of failure out of the box.

Re-writable dvd's are consumables and no one would accept the same rate of failure and/or poor quality that I've found in cartomizers etc.

All I am saying is the models you bought, even the Kgo, are not better built models. The ones that I am referring to in the $100+ price range are close to trouble free which is why they have such good warranties. They probably will last years without a problem. Every atty or carto I have bought have been replaced if they were DOA.

 

[Slim Batz]

I think anyone getting into this quickly realizes and accepts the disposable nature of the equipment. Most of the issues I've had occurred either right out of the box or within a week. That's considerably shorter than what I'd expect as a average time to failure...as you say a month or two. Even for a disposable product.

I'm surprised people accept a 20% failure rate, I can't think of any other consumer product that has anything close to that. And we're talking about products that cost real money and not 99 cents for a disposable lighter. If, for example flash drives, computer memory or IPod power adapters had that sort of failure rate there would be an issue made of it.

Like I said, I'm not .....ing exactly, I'm just surprised at how hit and miss the whole thing is.

The "Government Approved" Smoking Cessation Aid NRT (Nic patches, gum, lozenges etc.) have a 90% or more Failure Rate, and yet people buy them up ... go figure.

 

[underice]

All I am saying is the models you bought, even the Kgo, are not better built models. The ones that I am referring to in the $100+ price range are close to trouble free which is why they have such good warranties. They probably will last years without a problem. Every atty or carto I have bought have been replaced if they were DOA.

And what I'm saying is that across the board, mid-level e-cig hardware seems unreliable. Buy better stuff isn't the answer, especially not to new users. Saying our mid-level products are unreliable crap is not a sign of a mature market place. I don't know of any other industry that accepts that.

 

[underice]

Yes but, there actually is something different about the PV market and I certainly haven't seen it in my lifetime. Most people hear about PVs from the worst possible vendors. Do a google search for best e-cigarette you're going to get mostly rip-off companies. Companies like Green Smoke, South Beach or (serious shudder) White Cloud. When people look at brick and mortar retailers, they are selling kits you can get at dealextreme for $10 for $100. I happened to have a lot of experience with forums before I bought my first crummy kit from a retailer. So, when I realized what I bought wasn't going to do it but, thought there might be something that would, I went hunting for a forum. You might have too but, most people won't. Until people, especially retailers, are more knowledgeable about these devices, the problems you are mentioning will continue.

What you say is true to a certain extent, e-cigs are sold via the Internet to a greater degree than most other products and it can be a real chore picking through the good and bad. But, regardless of how it's products are sold, every copany faces the same calculation that balances QA, Customer Support, Tech Support etc into their business model and pricing structure. That's what I'm getting at when I say that the e-cig business isn't so different than other businesses.

I looked for a forum like this and I did a lot of research and asked my share of questions...the broad response was that the Elite and KGo were good to great choices. The fact that I had issues with both those products (products endorsed by users here) seems to indicate to me that the e-cig industry has at the very least, QA issues. I'm not talking about the low end crap that a lot of vapers start out with....I'm talking about accepted, high profile vendors at sites like this one who still ship an uneven product. As I said elsewhere, a market that says that you have to buy the highend stuff or face QA issues has problems...

Again, I'm not looking for equipment recommendations or complaining because I've had equipment problems. I started this thread to ask if the industry has an overall problem.

 

[MickeyRat]

What you say is true to a certain extent, e-cigs are sold via the Internet to a greater degree than most other products and it can be a real chore picking through the good and bad. But, regardless of how it's products are sold, every copany faces the same calculation that balances QA, Customer Support, Tech Support etc into their business model and pricing structure. That's what I'm getting at when I say that the e-cig business isn't so different than other businesses.

I looked for a forum like this and I did a lot of research and asked my share of questions...the broad response was that the Elite and KGo were good to great choices. The fact that I had issues with both those products (products endorsed by users here) seems to indicate to me that the e-cig industry has at the very least, QA issues. I'm not talking about the low end crap that a lot of vapers start out with....I'm talking about accepted, high profile vendors at sites like this one who still ship an uneven product. As I said elsewhere, a market that says that you have to buy the highend stuff or face QA issues has problems...

Again, I'm not looking for equipment recommendations or complaining because I've had equipment problems. I started this thread to ask if the industry has an overall problem.

The thing you might be missing is the people on here know that if they tell you to start with $300 worth of stuff, you'll probably walk away and not do it. That's especially true given the fact that you can easily find companies that will promise you much better and sell you a $30 kit for $120. They also don't want to recomend spending $300 when they aren't sure vaping's for you. So, they don't recommend the $300 expenditure.

The other problem is that there's no perfect solution. It might change eventually but, right now, with vaping, one size defintely does not fit all. No one wants to see you fork out $300+ for the wrong thing. So, they recommend you start with something cheap so you can figure out what's lacking. Then it's possble to guide you to the best solution for you.

I promise I've spent way more than $300 along the way and the two mods I use on a daily basis ran around $150 a piece. That's not counting the $100 or so I have in batteries, chargers, atomizers and juice. There are probably very few people on here that have been at this more than a year that won't tell you the something similar.

If you're willing to tell me what you want forever right now and you're willing to spend $300 or so to get it, I can tell you what to get but, you'll need to know what you want. Without vaping for a while, you really don't know. I don't like filler and it took trying cartomizers for a while for me to know that. Cartomizers are a lot more convenient especially with a tank but, I decided I liked dripping enough to want a different solution. Do you know how you feel about filler? Do you know how you feel about dripping? If you don't, you aren't in a position to know what you want and I can't help you. That's the state of the industry.

 

[TheSneakerHoarder]

You_need_a_real_mod...

 

[rolygate]

Please, please send me your postal address and let ECF donate a new keyboard to you. Staff are becoming desperate because of the onslaught of underscores, and days off due to staff sickness are rising. We'll fix it, just tell us where to send it.

admin[AT]e-cigarette-forum[DOT]com (no underscores)

 

[Huuwap]

I'm with Mickey on this one. You don't know unless you try, and if you're like most people you don't want to just drop $300 straight out the door for a mod, a couple batteries, 20 cartos and a handful of juices, especially when you don't know if you'll like or keep using anything that you bought.

I had to spend $300 ($100 of that being batteries/kits) before I was able to decide that I really should just go ahead and spend $200 on one item that will last, and it's the best decision I made. If a battery goes bad, $11 + shipping...and if something goes wrong with the mod in the first year, it's warrantied. Do I wish I would have skipped the wasted money? Of course...but I was told up front that I'd be looking for something better before too long and I chose not to listen.

There are quality products out there, you just have to be willing to put the money out for them. My wife is perfectly happy with the performance of the Smokeless Image Volt, and with the way she vapes her two batteries probably will last a year. I was and still am happy with my KGO and haven't had any problems with it...but because it is a proprietary battery and so expensive to replace one-off, I looked into a mod after I FUBARed the switch in one of the two I got in my kit. I still don't have a favorite carto, I'm messing around with tank systems, I need to get find an atty I like to drip in and I need to find a juice vendor I really like and stick with it...there are a lot of variables in this thing.

The products aren't mature, and as long as a majority of PVs come from China, we'll keep seeing sub-par devices. In any case it's a more than acceptable avenue to get off of smokes. Cigarettes were never hard to use because all you need is fire and enough lung capacity to suck your death down your throat. For me, the crap I have to sift through to find what I like is worth the inconvenience when compared to the health issues I see coming at 25 years old, much the less what I could be seeing in 10 years if I didn't quit.