Genesis mesh build w/fluctuating ohms...

[Kidnapped]

This problem has me really baffled...

While this MIGHT be more appropriate to post in "coil builds," that seems to be more for the sub-ohm'ers, and rda folks, which I'm NOT. Also, I never ran into this problem before I switched to genesis tanks; so, I'm putting it here, instead.

I've recently switched to all Gennys, after getting disgusted with cartos and clearos routinely flooding on me and RDAs being a hassle. Since I started using mess, I'm running into sort of a weird problem, though: If I use the same number of turns that I used to use when rebuilding the wicks for my Kanger 1's, it reads WAY lower than it should. I have to build them with several more turns to get them to where I can even use them on my APV's. Even then, the ohm readings fluctuate, regardless of what I put them in/on. They often go down for a while; then, start going up to way higher than the original build. It SEEMS like, if I build it at about 6/7 of 32g, it gives me an initial reading in the 2.3 to 2.6 range. After I hit it a few times on my mech mod (prior to putting it on my APV), that drops down to the 1.3 to 1.7 range. After a couple of days, I'm finding myself having to remove turns; since, it can wind up working its way toward 4 ohms!!!

I oxidize the (400) mesh with a bar-b-q lighter (I had bought a mini torch; but, it was junk and I can't afford to get another one right now on what passes for a budget around here); then, roll it around a piece of silica wicking. I typically reuse this part; but, it seems like it does the same thing whether it's a new one or a used one. If I'm not in a hurry when I wrap it with new kanthal, I also oxidize the wire, as well. That doesn't seem to make much difference either, though. It doesn't seem to help if I reoxidize the wick part.

I get some build-up on the wick; but, cleaning it off seems to only make things worse, rather than better.

I have a: RSST, AGA T2, UD, and a Kracken. It seems to happen on all of them.

Is this sort of "normal" for these kind of wicks? If not, any ideas for what I might be doing wrong?

Additional info that might or might not be relevant:
I prefer to stay in the 1.6 to 1.8 ohm range, +/- 0.2. I'm a "flavor chaser," rather than a "cloud chaser." I prefer to stay in the 6.5 to 8 watt range. I wrap onto the wick, rather than trying to thread a wick through. (I'm old and my hands don't work all that well...)

 

[Sthur]

Hello, I have gone away from mesh and use ss cable or cotton wicks now. My kracken has 5/6 wraps 28 and cotton around 0.8. Works good. My rsst I have ss cable with ecowool sleeve and ribbon wire 4 wraps at 1.1. Both are great and good flavor.

 

[Kidnapped]

I really do appreciate your replying. Unfortunately, I can only use my mech for pulsing after a build; and, even that's a hassle; since, it "has issues." It's not something I carry around with me to vape with; since, I just don't have the patience to mess with it when I'm "needing my nicotine fix." None of my APVs will handle anything below 1.2 ohms; and, I have neither the income nor the inclination to invest in low ohm equipment. I'm perfectly happy with staying in the 1.6 to 1.8 ohm range, +/- 0.2 ohms I mentioned above. I'm just trying to figure out why the ohms are fluctuating pretty wildly. A while back, I did try using some cable; but, I couldn't get the ecowool sleeve to go over it (my hands don't work worth a crap any more); and, it tasted terrible without it. Any thoughts as to what could cause the fluctuations I was asking about?

 

[Thrasher]

Well,
Blackening the wick with a lighter isn't oxidizing it.
All your really doing is covering it in soot.

As the coil heats and shifts the soot layer is being disturbed exposing the raw mesh underneath to the coil which will allow small shorts to form, as the coil shorts the resistance begins to jump around, also resulting in a pretty crappy vape.


When people used to oxidize mesh they were actually burning the surface of the steel to the point of melting into a carbon layer.

The method used now is pulsing the wick and letting the coil do the oxidation only where needed.

There's not much of an investment needed a 10 dollar mech from fasttech will work wonders.

Unless going to a softwick a geni with mesh may not be for someone who doesn't want to invest a little time and in the proper gear for setup.

The mesh build is the hardest and most intensive for proper preparation and building techniques.

I feel for ya, and the hand problems you have. But mesh is probably the one wicking system that does not tolerate half a##ing it, it has to be done correctly or it tastes like an old muffler that caught on fire. But flavorwise the most rewarding when done correctly.

This is exactly how I do my wicks now, takes all of 10 minutes maybe and I'm good for a month or so.

 

[twgbonehead]

Do you have a gas stove?

As others have said, the problem is most likely that the ss mesh is shorting out pieces of your coil.
Torching it over a gas stove will do a better job than a lighter.

Alternately, use a different wick (although genny's and SS mesh were kind of designed for each other). Rayon works pretty well, and doesn't have the shorting issues. PM me if you would like a sample (and are in the US).

 

[Kidnapped]

Well,
Blackening the wick with a lighter isn't oxidizing it.
All your really doing is covering it in soot.

I might've gotten off-track by seeing numerous references to using lighter powered "mini-torches." The one I ordered didn't work; and, the Bar-B-Q lighter seemed to be doing a good job of turning the mesh different colors; but, I'd never tried oxidizing anything before getting into Genny's.

As the coil heats and shifts the soot layer is being disturbed exposing the raw mesh underneath to the coil which will allow small shorts to form, as the coil shorts the resistance begins to jump around, also resulting in a pretty crappy vape.

I did notice that, especially when it would start climbing up towards the 4ohm point, it would just barely put out any vapor. The most annoying thing was the tendency to drop resistance right after pulsing it, though. I was winding up with coils that I could only use on my mech; and, regardless of how often or well I clean the threads, it only works about a 1/3rd of the time.

When people used to oxidize mesh they were actually burning the surface of the steel to the point of melting into a carbon layer.

The method used now is pulsing the wick and letting the coil do the oxidation only where needed.

Does the mesh need to be new for this to work? I've been trying to rewind used mesh; and, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I (also) might be winding the kanthal too tightly...

There's not much of an investment needed a 10 dollar mech from fasttech will work wonders.

After the recent (and only) experience I had with slowtech, I'll NEVER be doing ANY business with them again!!! A bummer; since, I had seen a lot of other stuff that I had hoped to buy there, as I could scrape together the money to do so.

Unless going to a softwick a geni with mesh may not be for someone who doesn't want to invest a little time and in the proper gear for setup.

The mesh build is the hardest and most intensive for proper preparation and building techniques.

I feel for ya, and the hand problems you have. But mesh is probably the one wicking system that does not tolerate half a##ing it, it has to be done correctly or it tastes like an old muffler that caught on fire. But flavorwise the most rewarding when done correctly.

I must admit that I have been kind of half-a$$ing it, not so much out of laziness but sheer exhaustion lately. I had decided to try mesh after softwicking for a while (where I never had this problem), to avoid having to replace wicks as often. I'm operating under (WAY) less than ideal conditions out here, while trying to recover from an uninsured arson fire that took out my home, in Jan.'13. (BTW NOT the house in my avatar. That's just something I "swiped" because I LOVED the yard sign in the pic.) Other than having regained things like internet, phone, tv, and (cold) running water, I'm still "living like I'm in a 3rd world country" in an 8'x16' "crate." I'm working on a little 340sf house; but, (lack of) funds and exhaustion are making for a very slow recovery. I had hoped to switch to mesh to reduce the hassle of rewicking as often; but, it might well be that this just isn't the right time for me to make this step.

This is exactly how I do my wicks now, takes all of 10 minutes maybe and I'm good for a month or so.

I was able to watch the 1st video before my computer slowed to a crawl; and, some of the ones that followed looked good. Thank you! I'll probably have to do a restart before I'll be able to watch any of the others, though. The "spend 10 minutes and be good to go for a month" was what I was hoping for when I decided to try mesh; so, I'm hoping that it'll turn out to be just my trying to rewire the mesh. It'll be about a week before I'll be able to get any more mesh, though.

 

[Kidnapped]

Do you have a gas stove?

As others have said, the problem is most likely that the ss mesh is shorting out pieces of your coil.
Torching it over a gas stove will do a better job than a lighter.

Alternately, use a different wick (although genny's and SS mesh were kind of designed for each other). Rayon works pretty well, and doesn't have the shorting issues. PM me if you would like a sample (and are in the US).

Whenever I'm able to finish building the cabinets up at the new house, I'll have a safe place to use the little 2-burner, propane camp stove I found, which might work great for oxydizing. Right now, all I have access to is a microwave. LOL, After more than 2 years of being just a few small steps above "being homeless on my own land," it's going to be SO strange (NICE; but, strange) getting to live "somewhat human" again...

I did get exasperated the other day; and, just threw a silica wick back on the one I was trying to rebuild. (After the 3rd round of "musical ohms.")

I haven't really looked into rayon wicking. How does it compare (durability and taste) to silica? Will a dry hit ruin it the cotton wicking does? (I like cotton - until I accidentally burn it; then, I can't get the burnt taste out...) How does it do with coils in the 1.5 to 2.0 ohm range?

I am in the US; and, certainly do appreciate your offer. I couldn't do it until Fri.; but, I could send you a SASE, if you pm me where to send it to.

 

[twgbonehead]

I haven't really looked into rayon wicking. How does it compare (durability and taste) to silica? Will a dry hit ruin it the cotton wicking does? (I like cotton - until I accidentally burn it; then, I can't get the burnt taste out...) How does it do with coils in the 1.5 to 2.0 ohm range?

The taste is IMHO far superior to that of silica, and it wicks much much better.
Like cotton, though, it will burn if you dry-fire it, so don't do that! Should work fine with coils in the 1.5-2 ohm range; I build a little lower (but not subohm, leastwise not on purpose!)

 

[Kidnapped]

The taste is IMHO far superior to that of silica, and it wicks much much better.
Like cotton, though, it will burn if you dry-fire it, so don't do that! Should work fine with coils in the 1.5-2 ohm range; I build a little lower (but not subohm, leastwise not on purpose!)


I just sent you my address via "conversation." THANK YOU!
Out of curiosity, did using mesh seem to require more turns than softwicking to get the same resistance? Might this be due to insufficient oxidation?

 

[Thrasher]

Yea the only reason you would need more wire that i can think of is the meshnisnt properly" cured" under the coil. Shorts will run through the mesh coil to coil, coil to wickhole and coil to deck. Whereever mesh touches raw steel

On my mech i use 28g 4/5 wraps for approx .8 ohms on a regulated mod i use the same 4/5 of 32 g for approx 1.6-1.8 ohms. I camt say ive had any problems other then the occasional adjustment during setup to make the wraps glow even.

 

[Kidnapped]

Thanks. I'll probably just go back to softwicking until I have better circumstance for messing with mesh. Hopefully, that'll only be a few months. (Maybe/hopefully, not quite that long.)