Graduated cylinders – are they good or bad?

[Alien Traveler]

Now I use exclusively syringes - I am always sure I will push out of them practically all measured liquid, thin or thick. But they are not really good in reaching to the bottom of tall bottles and in measuring bigger volumes (the biggest syringe I have is 12 ml). I have avoided using cylinders because a lot of thick liquid (as VG, and to some extend PG) will stick to their walls, so results of measurements will be screwed. Am I wrong (I know I am right, but I hope I am just a little bit right)? I need some encouragement to move to using cylinders.

 

[JimmyDB]

Yes. You should move on to using cylinders... and beakers. When measuring the addition of a fluid to a cylinder, you do so using the graduations on the receiving cylinder versus pulling a specific amount into a syringe. So, you just pour until you reach the total volume in the receiving cylinder that you targeted.

EDIT: Additionally, you can still use syringes to transfer the fluid from the origin container to the target container, but you no longer have to rely on the syringe's scale. Using the syringe to transfer 36mL of something, when the syringe is only marked for 12mL means your error rate was just tripled... once for each use.

You mention having trouble getting fluid from the bottom of the origin container... I suggest using something such as the following image which is sold under the 'EZY DOSE Syringe' name. You cap the origin container with that white cone, allowing you to invert the bottle and draw from it through the cap.

 

[Alien Traveler]

Yes, triple measurements lead to triple errors, but I still believe even with triple errors I will be better of measuring with syringe that with cylinder (because of some of the thick/sticky liquid will remain on walls of cylinder).

 

[Larry J]

When I can't reach the bottom I pour the liquid into an empty baby food jar then use a syringe or pipette from that. You lose a little on the walls when you pour it back into the original bottle but it sure makes it easier to get to. They're wide enough that they stay stable and can be capped between batches. I also label them as to contents to avoid any mix-ups.

 

[dannyv45]

I use cylinders for my large quantities of fluids such as PG/VG/NIC and syringes for measuring flavoring.

 

[iamthevoice]

User reading error has a lot more impact on accuracy than the choice between syringe and cylinder! Consider using both; the syringe to add the specific components to your mix and the cylinder to hold the final mix and offer confirmation of the total final volume. I try to apply the old adage of "measure twice and cut once" to mixing. I get the recipe percentages, calculate for the final volume I would like, confirm that the percentage values and my calculated values add up to my final volume and then make my mix. But I read from the bottom of the meniscus in every case.

 

[JimmyDB]

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Yes, triple measurements lead to triple errors, but I still believe even with triple errors I will be better of measuring with syringe that with cylinder (because of some of the thick/sticky liquid will remain on walls of cylinder).

You wouldn't have to pour from the origin container into a cylinder and then pour the contents of that cylinder into the target cylinder... you can go direct from origin into target cylinder OR you can continue to use a syringe to pull/draw the fluid from the origin container. The main difference is that you would want to make your measurements based on the changing in the total volume in the target cylinder. This will always be more accurate since there is only ever a single measurement made for each ingredient added, the one made from the target cylinder.

I do concede that your final material may stick to the side of the target cylinder when making the final pour into the storage vessel. Quality glass cylinders will allow for the final solution/material to sheet off the glass very well though.

I think this question ends up boiling down to where someones priorities lay. Mine would be in the accuracy of each ingredient being duplicate-able. If someone is more concerned that they recover as much of the final solution as possible, then they may choose to go directly from the syringe into the storage container. In this case, I would suggest using high quality syringes that are intended to be reused many times. One could also use the glass cylinder AS the final storage container if they so choose. For me... I estimate that I am losing approximately 1mL or less per 125mL batch due to anything sticking to the target cylinder.

I'm buying most of my flavors and NIC in enough bulk, that the spoilage/cost of the losses are minimal... and I would imagine that the difference in flavors would also be nominal.

 

[Tepid]

I have issues with Flasks, they are not always accurate.
Cylinders are more accurate. and ONLY use glass. and a good funnel.
As stated, the things will need to be turned upside down and allowed to drip the rest of the juice out
I only use 3ml, 5ml, 10 and 20ml syringes and Amber bottles for now, to mix.

However, there is a group that has been mixing by weight instead.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/yo-han/5060-my-way-mixing-scale.html

I am looking at this scale
500g x 0 01g High Precision Digital Scale SF 400D2 Counting w USB Wall Adapter | eBay

See my Sig links for the Ejuice Calculator to measure by weight.
That calc is also very powerful in many ways.

 

[JimmyDB]

User reading error has a lot more impact on accuracy than the choice between syringe and cylinder! Consider using both; the syringe to add the specific components to your mix and the cylinder to hold the final mix and offer confirmation of the total final volume. I try to apply the old adage of "measure twice and cut once" to mixing. I get the recipe percentages, calculate for the final volume I would like, confirm that the percentage values and my calculated values add up to my final volume and then make my mix. But I read from the bottom of the meniscus in every case.

Well yes. If someone things 8 liters is 1mL, then that's a huge impact I'm presuming the person knows how to make measurements in a repeatable fashion. I believe that for most volumes used with cylinders, it will not even matter if they read from the top or the bottom of the meniscus, as long as they are consistent. The difference from the top and bottom of the meniscus though, is dependent on the viscosity of the liquid (well, the surface tension) and diameter of the chamber though, so there can be quite a bit of difference. Again, in context though, I think that if you are mixing volumes to warrant using cylinders or beakers... then it's probably moot.

Of course... I'm talking about mixing up DIY e-juice... for your own consumption. If you are mixing up other chemicals for other purposes... or planning on selling e-juice... then they should have a proper lab with all of the proper equipment, procedures and any education that is relevant to the job duty.

 

[JimmyDB]

I have issues with Flasks, they are not always accurate.
Cylinders are more accurate. and ONLY use glass. and a good funnel.
As stated, the things will need to be turned upside down and allowed to drip the rest of the juice out
I only use 3ml, 5ml, 10 and 20ml syringes and Amber bottles for now, to mix.

I agree, none of the equipment is always accurate and should be checked/compared as part of your regular quality assurance process. First thing I do is compare a new piece of equipment with others, depending on the equipment it may be tested using calibration equipment (such as calipers, scales, etc).

I have been surprised at how 'accidental accurate' some items have been. I say that because I never expected a $5 set of plastic kitchen cylinders to be even close... but they were, better than some of the much more expensive glass items. I have also seen people selling/using beakers with printed scales that clearly say 'approx' on them... you can order 5 of them from the same lot and all 5 would measure different volumes, not even sure how that's possible given todays manufacturing capabilities.

Weight is decent, depending on the material, and if you are sure it's 'dry'... but again, in the context of what we are talking about (DIY Juice)... it shouldn't play a big role if your material is a little 'wet'. However, I would still be double-checking my weights and measures against known values.

 

[amoret]

I really like using weight. It's completely reproducible, and I can mix right into the end container, just taring it out for each ingredient. Since I am just mixing for me I'm not worried about the specific gravity of each ingredient. I still use syringes for transferring some ingredients (mostly the nic and filler, sometimes the flavoring depending on how controllable the dripper on the cap is) but I know that 1.2 grams is 1.2 grams as long as I'm using the same scale. The scale cost me about $12 and is plenty accurate for my purposes.

 

[Stacy1]

I too have been using just syringes. Its not been a problem before today because I make pretty small batches being new and still trying to come up with good recipes, but today I decided to premix my base so I wouldn't have to keep measuring out 100mg nic, pg and vg for every single bottle. I made 120ml, and measuring all that out with a 15ml syringe was RIDICULOUS. Ive been looking for a good price on some cylinders this evening. I wont use them to mix a juice. Will still add flavors to the bottle the juice will stay in, but I definitely will have cylinders to make my base

 

[BigCap]

I bought a 10-mL graduated glass cylinder, used it once, And never used it again, due to the vg being so thick, and sticking to the bottom & sides. You will never get it all out. I suppose it would be handy for 100% pg juices.

 

[Boletus]

I really like using weight. It's completely reproducible, and I can mix right into the end container, just taring it out for each ingredient. Since I am just mixing for me I'm not worried about the specific gravity of each ingredient. I still use syringes for transferring some ingredients (mostly the nic and filler, sometimes the flavoring depending on how controllable the dripper on the cap is) but I know that 1.2 grams is 1.2 grams as long as I'm using the same scale. The scale cost me about $12 and is plenty accurate for my purposes.

When I am ready to graduate from syringes, a scale will be my next step.

 

[28if]

I too believe weight is the way to go. Only been at this for a few months, but it just seems like a natural progression to me. Once I use up the box of syringes I bought I'm getting a scale.

 

[Stacy1]

I bought a 10-mL graduated glass cylinder, used it once, And never used it again, due to the vg being so thick, and sticking to the bottom & sides. You will never get it all out. I suppose it would be handy for 100% pg juices.

Want to get rid of it? I'm looking to get some. Really wanting a fifty and hundred ml but a ten will work if price is right

 

[olderthandirt]

I use cylinders, transfer with syringes.

As stated previously as long as you use the same part of the meniscus every time your accuracy will be right on.

The objection raised to too much of the liquid remaining "stuck" to the walls is why I no longer use glass.

Much less expensive, just as, if not more, accurate than glass because the meniscus is much flatter and VG slides out with little to no wait, try polymethylpentene cylinders.
One example here

 

[BigCap]

Want to get rid of it? I'm looking to get some. Really wanting a fifty and hundred ml but a ten will work if price is right

Lol, for serious? They're only like 3 bucks at wizard labs...

 

[awsum140]

Simplest solution is to invest in a gram scale that measures down to 1/100 of a gram. There are various mixing programs that give ml, drops and weight in grams. The size of the syringe doesn't matter then and it is very easy to be accurate and duplicate results every time..

I've always wondered why none of the vendors carry needles bigger than 14 gauge. I bought some 12 gauge and it made working with VG and PG a lot easier. I use 20ml syringes for PG and VG and 3ml and 1ml for flavor and nicotine.

 

[dannyv45]

A small hint for measuring thick liquids like VG in a cylinder. To get it to pour out that last few mls heat it in a microwave for 10 secs. It will thin and pour right out.