Greetings! Epic intro, some weirdness, and some questions

[PumpkinPicker]

The background -
I had a nine year long, pack a day (by the end) habit - which ended cold turkey July 19, 2001 due to watching my father's health deteriorate from smoking. As much as I loved smoking it was DEFINITELY time to quit - I didn't like the long term prognosis, cost, or smell.

It actually never occurred to me to cheat once I quit. Though I missed the *smoking* part I never got cigarette cravings exactly and watching Dad's continuing struggle with COPD and Emphysema I have more than ample reason to keep it up. However I can't say that quitting was exactly awesome, I was in grad school at the time and had a LOT of problems figuring out how to cope with stress without smoking.

I have a bunch of friends that got into vaping several years back and I even tagged along to some Long Island meet ups. I've always been an advocate but I figured that since I had already quit tempting myself with anything remotely resembling cigarettes was a bad plan. There's been a new crop of people starting up (and re-starting) with vaping around me lately and I ended up getting into a big discussion on FB explaining and defending vaping to some random friends of friends.

I have some heavy (good, but stressful) stuff going down in my life for the foreseeable future and can probably use all the stress relief I can get, so I thought about it for a while and I feel that after twelve years I can comfortably move to reclaim the enjoyment I got from smoking without the addiction, health, or odor issues.

What I got -
I spent a week lurking on various forums soaking up info and have ordered some gear (which USPS is of course holding hostage). I found out yesterday that there is a new brick and mortar Vape shop local-ish to me so I picked up some stuff and may go there tomorrow for a meetup. I picked up a little Kanger Evod mini kit and a couple of 0 nic. fluids yesterday, and have an eGo Twist/Vivi Nova kit and a 510 atomizer for dripping with another bottle of fluid on the way (and of course a couple of neat drip tips).

These are our concerns, Dude.
After vaping on and off over the last 24 hours I have to admit I feel pretty... odd. I suspect part of that is a flavor mismatch and part is some dehydration so I'm hoping water and flavor experimentation will clear things up, but for a bit I actually wondered if the nic. content on my fluids was mislabeled! I feel a bit like I used to when I first started smoking and it was sort of a mild head-rush every time. I spent much of the afternoon lightheaded, a touch nauseous, and very sensitive to smells.

So far I'm batting 0 for 2 on fluids, the berry flavor I got tasted pretty good (like blue cotton candy), but I HATE menthol and it has a background menthol hit to it that I ultimately couldn't deal with. It made my stomach feel somehow... empty and I spent the night absolutely RAVENOUS. I cleaned that out of my rig last night and reloaded with a coffee flavor this morning which tastes really good when I taste coffee, but confusing and a bit overpowering when I taste the buttered... popcorn? background flavor which seems to be getting stronger.

I'm still waiting to try the flavor I got with my twist/vivi kit which is a chocolate dipped strawberry and I'm REALLY hoping that one's better since it came with 30 ml! I'm not sure what to do with these nearly full bottles of 0 nic fluid that I'm probably never going to touch again. I'm not seeing much in the way of active trading going on - especially for 0 nic flavors, though honestly I have concerns with the safety of trading inhalants with total strangers and can understand why it might not be a big thing.

I am SERIOUSLY considering getting into DIY flavors already as I have a crazy good (and picky) sense of taste, nothing seems to come in reasonably small bottles so taste testing is going to get expensive fast, and I have concerns about diacetyl (and possibly PG).

The questions-
Anyone else start with 0 nic? Did you feel a bit oogy?

Is that blah feeling going away? - Clearly it's not nicotine overload or quitting side effects so most of the "So you've switched from smoking to vaping!" posts don't really apply to me.

Will this coffee flavor get better with steeping or is there something I can add to it that will help drown out the butter?

Is it likely that the popcorn flavor I'm getting is diacetyl?

If I do order fluid should I default to "extra flavor" blends?

Is there anyone out there doing decant circles for samples (either fluids or flavorings)?

Anyone know of any 0 nic specific groups, blogs, or threads?

Oh and uh, hey!

 

[zoiDman]

Welcome to the ECF

 

[jestergixxer]

Hello welcome to ECF, actually i started with 12mg nic then worked my way down to 6 and sometimes nic free. as for ur other questions. lol sorry i can't really answer them.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

The questions-
Anyone else start with 0 nic? Did you feel a bit oogy?

Is that blah feeling going away? - Clearly it's not nicotine overload or quitting side effects so most of the "So you've switched from smoking to vaping!" posts don't really apply to me.

Will this coffee flavor get better with steeping or is there something I can add to it that will help drown out the butter?

Is it likely that the popcorn flavor I'm getting is diacetyl?

If I do order fluid should I default to "extra flavor" blends?

Is there anyone out there doing decant circles for samples (either fluids or flavorings)?

Anyone know of any 0 nic specific groups, blogs, or threads?

Oh and uh, hey!

Well, dehydration will cause many of your symptoms. Many experience this even at zero nic. Yes, it goes away after your body adjusts to what you're doing, as it does with anything new. Homeostasis comes in many forms, many symptoms, many causes. I would be very worried about diacetyl. Very common additive, and why most popcorn adamantly denies the inclusion of diacetyl in their products. Check with the manufacturer/flavorist on this. Great catch, btw.

Coffee is one of those vaping flavors that does not translate to well from flavor and smell to vape. I have tried many combinations and really don't care for it that much, and I do wish it worked better for me. Of course, if you add enough custard to anything, you can make it taste pretty good, imho.

I like the idea of you doing DIY. Allows you to vape for less money (after startup costs) and flavor to taste. Also, until then, two words: Sampler packs. Lots of 0 nic users. Doesn't change much of anything with vaping, except that you're not getting nicotine, which you probably shouldn't add, because of your quitting all those years ago. It's still addictive, as you know. You should know, that because of the differenc in the absorption mechanism of action, vaping is far less addictive and much easier to reduce nic levels, particularly over time. For this same principle/reason, many health care professional don't even consider the patch addictive (Delta mechanism of action).

Haven't heard anything about decanting yet, but plenty on steeping, which is a very good practice. Like fine wine, juice improves with aging. Open air, large surface to air exposure (beaker), 24 hours, seal, shake, rattle and roll daily. Expose to air once a week, particularly with the complex flavorings. Single flavorings I can get to about 95% in just two days. Five or more ingredients take two or three weeks to fully form the flavor bonds and bring out the more subtle notes.

Extra flavor "shots" is why I DIY. Taste is so subjective that a bit of an adjustment on any flavor is required by me to suit preference. Once you understand that DIY is all about patience and UNDERSTANDING a good bit about a lot of little stuff, it's really very rewarding, and a superb hobby, imho. YMMV. Also, not applicable to you that much, but taste buds adjust over time. So my ADV flavors from six months ago have not only had my flavoring percentages cut in half, but my nic levels have also been cut in half. Also, the toppers (delivery devices) get better the higher end you go, and the more sophisticated the gear (dripping excepted), which enhances flavor experience, allowing lighter flavoring percentages.

Btw, small sample packs (less than 6 mils, are readily available from many sources. When testing, don't add nicotine, which you won't do anyway, but in case someone else reads this. A lot of the TH and vapor are from the percentage PG/VG and nic level (particularly on TH). More PG, more TH. More VG, more vapor production. Flavors are very dependent on heat, as well. Many fruit and pastry and sweet flavors will begin to burn/break down at about 6.8 to 7.0 Watts. 8 Watts is really pushing it to avoid burning the flavor, YMMV. As my juices have gotten more complex and delicate, I had to reduce my coil temperature and dropped my Watts from about 8.5 Watts to 7.0 - 7.5 Watts. Big improvement in flavor. Not only less burning, but greater flavoring.

My family anticipates reducing nic level to 0 in the future. We have no intention of quitting vaping. Time will tell.

I know a lot of info. Maybe too much. Rambling now, so gonna just leave it here. All the best, good luck, Power up and Vape On!

 

[PumpkinPicker]

Hello and thank you zoiDman and jestergixxer!

Some very helpful rambling billbeckusa! Clearly I am not in a position to wag fingers about verbosity.

I'm glad to hear I didn't waste a good chunk of money on just making myself feel mildly carsick all the time!

Even before quitting my sense of smell/taste were pretty psychotic but now it's like a second rate superpower. I am a judge-of-questionable-milk and detector-of-worrisome-smells extraordinaire; so I expected a bit of adjustment and that flavors would be a bit tricky but even so it was pretty disheartening to be all "woohoo new toys!... oh bleah" .

The more I look into it the economy of scale really doesn't support anything but DIY flavorings, especially since I don't have to worry about fiddling with nicotine content. I can get an entire quart of base liquid for about what it costs for the average sample set of premixed fluids.

I am surprised diacetyl avoidance is not more of a *thing* among vapers. I am a little disheartened to see how many flavors I'm interested in seem to be associated with it (coffee, caramel, cream) and how few sites I've seen so far have ingredient info readily available for their liquids. That being said I have seen a few threads addressing it already so hopefully it will become easier to avoid over time. Yet anothre vote for making my own I suppose.

Now to decide on flavorings!

 

[Txaggiesaunt]

Hi and welcome to ECF. Check out this link. http://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/wiki/supplier_list. It will tell you which juice suppliers say their flavor are diacetyl free. Good luck and VAPE ON

 

[BigBen2k]

For a sophisticated flavor, try a sampler kit from Halo; you're sure to find one you like.

 

[Kellycat]

Hello and thank you zoiDman and jestergixxer!

Some very helpful rambling billbeckusa! Clearly I am not in a position to wag fingers about verbosity.

I'm glad to hear I didn't waste a good chunk of money on just making myself feel mildly carsick all the time!

Even before quitting my sense of smell/taste were pretty psychotic but now it's like a second rate superpower. I am a judge-of-questionable-milk and detector-of-worrisome-smells extraordinaire; so I expected a bit of adjustment and that flavors would be a bit tricky but even so it was pretty disheartening to be all "woohoo new toys!... oh bleah" .

The more I look into it the economy of scale really doesn't support anything but DIY flavorings, especially since I don't have to worry about fiddling with nicotine content. I can get an entire quart of base liquid for about what it costs for the average sample set of premixed fluids.

I am surprised diacetyl avoidance is not more of a *thing* among vapers. I am a little disheartened to see how many flavors I'm interested in seem to be associated with it (coffee, caramel, cream) and how few sites I've seen so far have ingredient info readily available for their liquids. That being said I have seen a few threads addressing it already so hopefully it will become easier to avoid over time. Yet anothre vote for making my own I suppose.

Now to decide on flavorings!

Mt. Baker Vapor and Wizard Labs both have diacetyl-free flavorings available, and the former also has pre-mixed liquids at very good prices, not as good as DIY but pretty close to it. As far as your light-headedness/etc, Bill hit it on the head, dehydration causes all of 'em when nicotine isn't involved, and I've dealt with it myself when chain-vaping. Drink more water, cut out coffee if you can as it'll just dehydrate you worse, same with any other caffeine, but coffee is the obvious one to start with until you get used to vaping.

 

[PumpkinPicker]

Txaggiesaunt - Thank you for the link, I knew I had already seen one like it and planned to dig it back up but direct links are always bonus!

BigBen2k - I will check them out, thanks!

Wow Kellycat! Those are exactly the kind of DIY vendors I was looking for - ingredient lists and even paypal on one of them too! Lovely!

I suspect I've been a bit dehydrated all week so this totally makes sense, usually I'm really good about hydrating because I run, but I had a particularly hard run Monday and was a bit of a slug for a few days as a result so I wasn't paying much attention to water intake, I should have seen that coming.

 

[Kellycat]

I suspect I've been a bit dehydrated all week so this totally makes sense, usually I'm really good about hydrating because I run, but I had a particularly hard run Monday and was a bit of a slug for a few days as a result so I wasn't paying much attention to water intake, I should have seen that coming.

I've actually noticed I have a hard time hitting my usual eight glasses a day now that I picked up vaping..even after moving to a hotter climate, I still have to consciously make myself drink more now, where-as I used to pound down bottle after bottle without thinking about it. I have no idea at all if it's related to the vaping or not, but it might be, as the PG/VG absorb water out of the air and I notice I get a mouth full of water after chain-vaping..perhaps it's tricking you into thinking you're drinking more than you really are, I can't tell at this point. Sounds like you know about proper hydration already at least, so that's a benefit, but figured I'd share my personal experiences there in case you find you're going through something similar at some point.

 

[PumpkinPicker]

I hated water for a long time and I'm not a chugger, so maintaining hydration is kind of a constant struggle. It's a bit easier now that I know it's the difference between a nice evening or a massive headache and wanting to puke at the end of a run, but it's still a very conscious effort. Interesting that you are struggling more with it after vaping, I wonder if the constant "taking something in through a straw-like mouthpiece" feeling might be part of the problem too.

Once I figured out the problem yesterday I started chugging water and I could tell I was still a bit low by the time I went to bed so yeah, I think that mystery has been solved.

Duh! The hygroscopic effect of the pg/vg explains all the condensation I have noticed on the inside of my mouthpiece!

 

[BlueMoods]

Try Dasani or MIO flavors for the water - I hate water too, can't drink just plain water but, a squeeze of those flavors in there and, now I drink my water - actually want my water - it tastes almost as good as vaping and, I can have fun picking the water flavor that best compliments my vape flavor.

 

[PumpkinPicker]

Aaaaaaaaaand Wizard labs order (number one, presumably) placed.

120 ml each of PG and VG with 8ml each of:

Black Tea Flavor (TFA)
Lemon Flavor Concentrate (TFA)
Raspberry Flavor Concentrate (TFA)
Malted Milk Flavor (TFA)
Caramel Cappuccino TFA
English Toffee Flavor (TFA)
Ethyl Maltol 10% PG Solution (TFA)
Sour - Flavor Concentrate (TFA)
Peanut Butter Flavor (TFA)
Cream Cheese Icing Flavor Concentrate (LA)

I really wanted to get honey, pineapple, coconut, and black honey tobacco as well but they were out.

I still have to get bottles and measuring materials, but that can wait until morning. Happily the eGo-C twist/vivi nova kit I ordered should be arriving tomorrow!

I've been spacing out my vaping a bit more over the last day and I'm feeling a LOT better, the coffee fluid is starting to taste a little better too so I'm trying to figure out a place to steep the rest of the bottle where it's not going to get knocked over by the cats (or me).

 

[PumpkinPicker]

And now I know what something which needs steeping tastes like.

I really like the feel of the Twist with the 510 atomizer on it, but I feel a bit like I've been sucking on a strawberry scented marker.

 

[PumpkinPicker]

And um, now a second Wizard Labs order (since I realised I couldn't do better on syringes via Amazon). Luckily since they hadn't fully processed my first order they're allowing me to add this second order into the original box. *dances*

So I've got a number of syringes, some TFA bittersweet chocolate, and TFA Black Honey Tobacco on the way too. Getting some squeeze bottles from Amazon later today and I'll be set to tinker!

 

[VANA]

My suggestion is steep the hell out of them and you will get a more flavorful and enjoyable experience.

 

[PumpkinPicker]

I pulled the dripper tip off the coffee bottle and let it sit (with the cap on - I know the limits of my grace) overnight and it did seem a little better, so I've found an out of the way cabinet corner to put them.

I'm considering cracking open the half full evod tank of Coffee and leaving that open to the air too.

I'm so glad I picked up the 510 atty and mini evod kit because based on my flavor track record I'm not even going near the Vivi tank until I have something that has proven itself delicious enough for 3.5ml worth of vaping.