Do any of you that have been getting closer to perfection recently have any ideas what might be some of the flavorings or molecules in Captain Jack?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Halo Freedom/Smooth/Torque recipes???
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I've been following this thread even though I'm not interested in Halo clones, just hoping you guys would find that missing Halo "funk" that remains in the air that some describe as cigarette smell and others describe as musty clothes, etc. I think I've experienced that in other e-liquids and to me it mostly comes off as cigarette smell.
In a thread titled "Flavor Molecules from Perfumer's Apprentice (TFA)?" Scubabatdan describes *Methyl Phenyl Acetate this way:
"Phenylacetic - Dirty socks... don't recommend LOL
Trimethyl - Smells like a light dkang tobacco, earthy would be good in a tobacco mix
Phenyl Ethyl - Fruity/Flowery scent
Hope that helps,
Dan"
(http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9478333)
Now, that doesn't sound very appealing, and the TFA description doesn't really match the profile either:
"... a very potent floralizer, use care
taste description: (dilute to 1% to use).... Floral, honey, spice, waxy and sweet "
(http://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/c-99-sugar-honey-notes.aspx)
But since a description resembling "dirty socks" comes up in a good 75% of the Halo reviews I thought it might be worth mentioning.
Good luck with your quest!
*Edit: at least, I assume Scubabatdan meant Methyl Phenyl Acetate. It is one of the "Molecules used in Tobacco Blends", and there is no "Phenylacetic" or " Phenyl Acetic" listed on the TFA site. Didn't notice the spelling discrepancy until I was checking my post here.
In a thread titled "Flavor Molecules from Perfumer's Apprentice (TFA)?" Scubabatdan describes *Methyl Phenyl Acetate this way:
"Phenylacetic - Dirty socks... don't recommend LOL
Trimethyl - Smells like a light dkang tobacco, earthy would be good in a tobacco mix
Phenyl Ethyl - Fruity/Flowery scent
Hope that helps,
Dan"
(http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9478333)
Now, that doesn't sound very appealing, and the TFA description doesn't really match the profile either:
"... a very potent floralizer, use care
taste description: (dilute to 1% to use).... Floral, honey, spice, waxy and sweet "
(http://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/c-99-sugar-honey-notes.aspx)
But since a description resembling "dirty socks" comes up in a good 75% of the Halo reviews I thought it might be worth mentioning.
Good luck with your quest!
*Edit: at least, I assume Scubabatdan meant Methyl Phenyl Acetate. It is one of the "Molecules used in Tobacco Blends", and there is no "Phenylacetic" or " Phenyl Acetic" listed on the TFA site. Didn't notice the spelling discrepancy until I was checking my post here.
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Methyl Phenyl Acetate is actually an aroma molecule and not a flavor molecule. I don't think you would want to use that in a mix.
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It's also one of the "Molecules used in Tobacco Blends".
Molecules used in Tobacco Blends....Sugar / Honey Notes... Methyl Phenyl Acetate
taste description: (dilute to 1% to use)
at 30.00 ppm. Floral, honey, spice, waxy and sweet
Not sure about this one. maybe the spice but the rest????
I mentioned it because of Scubabatdan's description of it as "dirty socks", which doesn't appear in TPA's description, but matches the description of that hanging Halo funk that so many Halo reviewers note. It's the only "dirty socks" lead I have, other than some varieties of actual Turkish tobacco.
It is probably only when used more concentrated than recommended by TPA that it takes on the funkiness, or something like that....pretty common for e-juice makers. Tobacco Absolute, for example, is commonly mixed at dozens of times more concentrated than recommended (or than I can stand).
Anyway, just a loose lead. I'll check it out myself at some point. I just got a big order from TPA and forgot that one, so it'll be a while.
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There was a French company posted here named "Aqua" who sell flavorings that might be used in Halo, I emailed them over a week ago to ask if they ship internationally but haven't heard anything back from them though I will keep trying. Aahh frustrating because their flavors looked delicious.
By adding .3% FA Cocoa and .5% TetraMP to the recipe, my "Prime" subjects said it is much more like the original. The mix did smell more chemical-like, likely due to the addition of tetramethyl pyrazene, and I'm not sure it needed it. The end result is actually drier (less sweet) than Prime in a back-to-back test. That could be remedied by a number of things. The addition of a few drops EM would likely bring out more sweetness. AS for now, I think looking for other "dirty socks" molecules is pointless. I get plenty of that from the TMP. I did notice, after trying Hangsen "Highway" that that particular base, though similar to T5, could be closer to the base in Prime. I don't want to overshoot my goal which originally was to create a juice close enough to Prime15 where it could be considered an acceptable substitute. I think we have already done that. It's like any clone out there; good enough by most to vape in lieu of the real thing. Purists will always buy the original no matter how similar it tastes. Just look at all the Pluid clones. Some taste better than Pluid, imo, but it is "what it is". I'll halt here in my experimentation for now. I'm glad several others became curious to carry the torch and dig even deeper, and I'll surely be checking on the thread for new ideas. This is what I'm using with great success:
Hangsen T5 - 8% (possible substitution by Hangsen Highway)
Trimethyl Pyrazene - 2%
Acetyl Pyrazene - 1%
Tetramethylpyrazene - 0.5% (maybe not needed)
FA Cocoa - 0.3%
Ethyl Maltol (10% solution) - 1drop/10ml (optional)
Hangsen T5 - 8% (possible substitution by Hangsen Highway)
Trimethyl Pyrazene - 2%
Acetyl Pyrazene - 1%
Tetramethylpyrazene - 0.5% (maybe not needed)
FA Cocoa - 0.3%
Ethyl Maltol (10% solution) - 1drop/10ml (optional)
Thanks for the help and input I think it's come a long way. I'm continuing on the experementation looking for that elusive musty/fruit/dirty sock note. I have what I think will do it coming so I'll update when done.
If you're talking maybe spicy (could well be regarded by some as peppery), it could be Burley that you're looking for.
Yea i know how burley tastes but i am referring to a flavor molecule,not a flavor concentrate,that has the same effect and certain peppery taste which danny posted.
No that's not what I'm after its already peppery if you mix it in a 24ml nic concentration. What I'm after is the missing Musty and rummy, with nutty and cereal notes - caramel and fruity undernotes
which is what the additive that I ordered is described as.
Ah sorry,i misunderstood the previous post from you about it.
EDIT: I know the unflavored nic. has this quality but i am not referring to that though,man this is hard to explain.I will just let this one go until i can do some experimenting.
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Exactly what I think, too.
I, for one, have rarely ever accepted things as they are ... there is always room to make things better, more suitable to each of our unique tastes, whether that is an e-liquid, or food or just about anything. Getting it exactly there is not quite as important as the opportunity to make things happen, IMO.
Thanks for your contribution, as a person that likes Prime15, I'll be sure to try out your recipe, probably minus the TetraMP to start (see what I mean, lol)....
There is no pepper taste in Prime, never has been. If you got prime and didn't let it steep, the pepper taste possibly could have been from the fresh nic used and your sensitivity to it.
You are correct the only peppery flavor is from the NIC. The higher the NIC and PG the more peppery it taste. SO there's no sense in looking for a peppery additive flavor it's not needed.
well done.
i just cant help but mention how much easier this whole thing would be if Totally Wicked still sold the patriot range flavorings, namely the State Express 555. i still have a little, but soon enough i will be going the hansgen etc route.
I emailed them too and the owner got back to me. Unfortunately they don't ship outside of the EU. It's a shame because these flavorings are awesome and I would really like to try their Midnight Apple.
I tried Prime 15, Torque 56, Freedom, Smooth 8 and they were spot on. I also tried Tribeca which I found on the weaker side, and Bella Valente which I didn't like but I couldn't talk for its realism as I never had that juice from Halo.
Overall I wouldn't be surprised if they were the same flavorings as the TW patriot range.
Interesting.. I have quite a few flavors of their old black label line. Maybe 20-25 asst 10 ml bottles of flavoring. Sort of dont want to use it since I don't think tw carries it anymore. I would hate to make something great only to not be able to keep making it..lol
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