Harmful ingredients other than nicotine?

[scratchm]

In a recently closed thread that was (mostly) on a different topic, spliner wrote:

not to mention some of the things vendors use to flavor e-liquids can also make you sick if you ingest them.

Is this true? What "things"? Which vendors? The vendor I get my juice from says:

Everything we use is FDA approved and Food Grade.

and I always understood this to mean that everything but the nicotine was safe to swallow. Not that I'm drinking the stuff of course, but if it were *not* safe to swallow, I'd reconsider if I wanted to vape it.

Anyone have reliable information on this?

 

[Automaton]

It really depends on your vendor.

Personally, I never buy Chinese juice because I have read way too many reports of people having quality control issues with it.

I buy American, or I make my own. I prefer vendors who will tell me what kind of flavoring they use. For example, I know that FreedomSmokeUSA uses FlavorArt flavoring.

Companies like FlavorArt, Perfumer's Apprentice, LorAnn, etc, make their flavors *specifically* to be ingested. They often use PG as a base. So I know these things are considered safe, and food-grade.

I also can be fairly sure that vendors who use quality flavoring are also using USP-grade PG and VG.

And if all else fails, I can be absolutely sure of what goes into my own DIY mixes.

So, when properly done, everything in e-juice is safe.

But not all vendors do it properly, or consistently.

This is why it's important to do your homework, listen to what other people's experiences are, and make informed decision. It's your body - treat it well.

 

[TheLordWinter]

I'm not going to worry too much about it, to be honest. There's so many variables, allergies, quality control, etc. The best thing to do is to follow Mistress Nomad's advice. Find a vendor you like. While I respect her opinions, and her decision to buy American, there are just as many people out there who like the chinese juice, and swear by it. For all the people who like LorAnn Flavorings, there are some who don't because the flavorings have a reputation for leaving a lasting aftertaste in an atomizer. Yet, at the same time, some people don't even notice the "ghost" of previous flavors, even WITH LorAnn. So, like she said, just find what you like, make sure it agrees with you, and vape away!

As for the first quote, yes, some flavorings CAN upset your stomach (Notice in the thread you quote that the OP said the juice made them sick), if you ingest them. Would you really want to drink a tobacco flavored liquid with 0 nicotine content, just because it had no nicotine? Vanilla flavoring is awesome, for example, in homemade ice cream, but I wouldn't want to drink the stuff straight out of the bottle. I can't imagine that it would sit well on my stomach. Here's another example for ya... Nutmeg... perfectly safe in typical SEASONING quantities, but in HEAVY amounts (and I do mean HEAVY, here) it can actually be toxic.

Just because something says "safe", doesn't mean you can imbibe it in liberal amounts. It's all about how it's used.

Hope this helps your nerves a bit.

 

[UntamedRose]

I've heard that some venders are using diacetyl, which is a butterist flavoring. Though I dont know which ones.
Harmless eaten and in small doses but inhaled and in larger doses can cause popcorn lung and cause some real problems.
Diacetly is FDA approved and food grade, used in beer and artificial butter
http://www.defendingscience.org/Diacetyl-Background.cfm

 

[Mindfield]

I'm pretty certain that other than nicotine (which, all things considered, is pretty similar to caffeine in terms of addictiveness and physical effects, save that you typically ingest a lot more nicotine than caffeine) the ingredients are safe. They're all food-grade (as was said, presuming you use a reputable vendor) and intended for ingestion, and although by "ingestion" the intention is that you swallow it, taking it into your lungs probably doesn't have an appreciable different effect; it still gets absorbed by your body one way or the other, and most of it comes back out as vapour anyway. There are trace amounts of carcinogens in the nicotine, because it is derived from tobacco, but I remember reading a figure that amounted to something like you'd have to vape the equivalent of 7 cartons of cigarettes before you ingested the same mount of carcinogens as one cigarette. (Or, put in terms I had read, the amount of carcinogens in eJuice is 1,400 times less than a tobacco cigarette.)

Though it is highly unlikely, even if there are ingredients that are harmful, vaping is still almost certainly several orders of magnitude better for you than smoking tobacco cigarettes. That's more than enough for me even without peer-reviewed numbers and facts, so the FDA can take its mountainous molehill and shove it.

 

[Automaton]

Though it is highly unlikely, even if there are ingredients that are harmful, vaping is still almost certainly several orders of magnitude better for you than smoking tobacco cigarettes. That's more than enough for me even without peer-reviewed numbers and facts, so the FDA can take its mountainous molehill and shove it.

This.

Honestly, it would be very difficult to screw up juice badly enough to make it even half as bad for you as cigarettes.

Of course it's not unreasonable to want as much safety as possible - that's why I am picky about juice. But the mechanism itself simply doesn't allow for a lot of the crap that you get from cigarettes, no matter how hard you try.

Even some of the worst juices are leaps and bounds better than cigarettes.

 

[100thMonkey]

Actually, the thing I worry about most are sweeteners. It took me years to get straight about aspartame and what it was doing to my body. In my meals, I always use Agave now for sweetening. Anybody have any idea what kind of sweeteners are used and how they break down?

 

[ckc]

I've heard that some venders are using diacetyl, which is a butterist flavoring. Though I dont know which ones.
Harmless eaten and in small doses but inhaled and in larger doses can cause popcorn lung and cause some real problems.
Diacetly is FDA approved and food grade, used in beer and artificial butter
Background on Diacetyl & Popcorn Workers Lung

I mix my own and luckily some vendors are happy to show which do contain it,obviously only certain flavours so you can decide yourself E Liquid - Flavourart eLiquid Flavouring, i know some have been contacted and asked directly,i'm sorry but i don't have a list.

 

[oettinger]

I am not so sure I agree with the opinions in this thread. I am not sure I disagree with them either.

I think it is like the Burning cartomizers debate. Besides the fact that you are playing DIRECTLY into the FDA's hand, The level of "dangerous" chemical would be infinitesimal as compared to the carcinogens in tobacco smoke.
I see some points. Corn oil is safe for consumption, but I would not want to vaporize it and breath it. It is also very similar to vegetable glycerin (VG) BUT on the other hand, very little is sticking inside your lungs. A person would probably get more inhalation by cooking the morning 3 strips of bacon than they would vaping it for months.

While I do not believe vaping is totally safe, I am sure it is MUCH better than inhaling BURNING SMOKE AND CHEMICALS. If a person feels it is to much of a risk, I will say like I do with the cartomizers question. Just go back and do what ever you were doing before.

My doctor says that anything is better than smoking, not just because of the smoke, ash, and tar, but the thousands of chemicals that are added to the tobacco for various reasons. If you have concerns, ask the supplier EXACTLY what is in the juice, and do your own research into what it can do to you. I am sure the supplier have a MSDS (material safety data sheet) for every chemical they use or supply since it is the law. I know Dekang has them for every juice they make.

The only other option I see is to get a chromatographic mass spectrometer, and see what chemicals are found. OR you could just read this article where these tests were done by Health New Zealand, right before they said they were ok for people to use.
http://www.healthnz.co.nz/RuyanCartridgeReport30-Oct-08.pdf

 

[Automaton]

I don't think that we should fear the FDA so much that we're unwilling to openly discuss the benefits AND potential risks of vaping.

We're all real people, who are being real life genuine pigs for a brand new product. All the studies so far suggest that vaping is relatively safe, but there are no long-term studies - it hasn't been around long enough for there to be any long-term studies. Even the real seniors of vaping have only been doing it a couple years.

I'm unwilling to stop discussing and asking questions about how good these things are, and how we make them better, out of fear of the FDA.

Like NRT doesn't have risks? Like Chantix doesn't have SERIOUS risks?

Fear is the death of progress...

 

[pyrocat]

Does anyone else find it strange that people refer to what is in cigarette smoke as __OMG CHEMICALS__ but the chemicals that are added to create artificial flavors no one blinks an eye at? Inhaling artificial flavors can not be good for you, but like smoking you have to determine what is an acceptable risk.

 

[cozzicon]

I don't think that we should fear the FDA so much that we're unwilling to openly discuss the benefits AND potential risks of vaping.

We're all real people, who are being real life genuine pigs for a brand new product. All the studies so far suggest that vaping is relatively safe, but there are no long-term studies - it hasn't been around long enough for there to be any long-term studies. Even the real seniors of vaping have only been doing it a couple years.

I'm unwilling to stop discussing and asking questions about how good these things are, and how we make them better, out of fear of the FDA.

Like NRT doesn't have risks? Like Chantix doesn't have SERIOUS risks?

Fear is the death of progress...

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain

 

[ckc]

Unfortunately the E-Cigs are already under the FDA, i believe that we're all here to pass info onto the next vaper be it good or bad. Mods/E-Cigs etc have improved by users discussing what they want and need, it should be the same with Juice. We may not like the bad but without it we'd have been stuck with 1 brand of E-Cig and one brand of juice.

 

[Sandybeach40]

The air in your house is more dangerous than a E Cig.

 

[Void]

Here is an example of a vendor that shows its ingredients which is nice. Electronic Cigarettes Ingredients by Vapure

 

[oettinger]

Does anyone else find it strange that people refer to what is in cigarette smoke as __OMG CHEMICALS__ but the chemicals that are added to create artificial flavors no one blinks an eye at? Inhaling artificial flavors can not be good for you, but like smoking you have to determine what is an acceptable risk.

BUT, e-cig juice DOES not contain

Arsenic, Benzene, Beryllium, Cadmium, Chloroform, Lead, or any of the OTHER 3994 other chemicals that are in cigarettes. I am sure if we were to just grow the tobacco leaves, and eat them raw out of our own organic garden, then we would be relatively OK.

The study I linked that was done by the "public health office of New Zealand" tells you what is in them, and the risk.

We know what is in them and can get a list from any reputable e-juice maker. Why not talk about a specific "chemical" that concerns you? That might make for a discussion worth of our time as opposed to the same tired arguments.

 

[billo]

Every time I hear that the ingredients in a juice are "FDA Approved" it sounds a little meaningless to me.

FDA approved means that you can EAT the ingredients. What has this to do with their safety after vaporizing them and inhaling them into your lungs ? I'm sure there are things you can eat that would do damage when inhaled.

I'm not saying these ingredients are dangerous, just pointing this out.

 

[adrianx]

I've been using Dekang liquids for 8 months now... who knows, maybe I'm slowly dying.

Anyway, I kind of like this post. I wish I could say that I only buy South African, but I'm not really aware of any local manufacturers. Maybe in someone's back yard....?

 

[cliff]

I don't think that we should fear the FDA so much that we're unwilling to openly discuss the benefits AND potential risks of vaping.

We're all real people, who are being real life genuine pigs for a brand new product. All the studies so far suggest that vaping is relatively safe, but there are no long-term studies - it hasn't been around long enough for there to be any long-term studies. Even the real seniors of vaping have only been doing it a couple years.

I'm unwilling to stop discussing and asking questions about how good these things are, and how we make them better, out of fear of the FDA.

Like NRT doesn't have risks? Like Chantix doesn't have SERIOUS risks?

Fear is the death of progress...

I agree mistress I believe it took them 11 years to figure out smoking causes cancer..anyway I'd rather vape.I will smoke a cigarette every couple of months to see what I'm missing it always tastes nasty to me

 

[Nikhil]

There will always be a few people who have reactions to something in the liquid, such is the body's chemistry. There are people who react to vaping plain VG or PG, and probably even PEG. To be approved for ingestion by the FDA includes any sort of absorption, as long as it is in safe levels. The levels of the ingredients you're getting into your body when you vape aren't going to hurt the average person, but obviously if you give it to a small child or someone with allergies to one of the ingredients there are probably going to be bad consequences.