Harvard Eliquid Study Today

[herb]

Ya know i truly hope and pray that diketones turn out to be of no concern....i don't want my gut feeling to be right because that would mean others will suffer. I spent too many years smoking and ignoring the warnings...and now i have COPD....lesson learned i don't gamble with my lungs anymore. I really don't want to die on a oxygen machine but the damage cigs have done have probably already sealed that fate...i don't want to take unnecessary risk again with diketones and speed that process up when it's avoidable. Yes, maybe some of us are being overly cautious and sensitive to risk factors...what can i say cigs proved to be a good teacher to learn from.

If i am being overly cautious...this is why. The warnings about cigs were right all along.

Outstanding post !!!!


Absolutely "shocked" that nobody has eaten you alive over this post because when i said essentially the same thing a few pages back i was flooded with naysayers lol.

Some saying they don't think smoking has anything to do with breathing issues and if it did it's the diketones that would clearly NOT be responsible so it had to be the other 3,999 other chemicals that had to be at fault .

Thanks for bringing up the obvious relation to needing oxygen tanks as well due to smoking , when i said 4 close friends and family members were on oxygen tanks due to smoking before they passed i was also called out and responded to with a "i never heard or have seen anybody needing oxygen tanks " because of smoking .

It's this kind of ridiculousness that makes me bust out laughing . Apparently all it takes is for someone else to post the obvious to get your point across in here without being questioned lol.

 

[herb]

Dang it .

 

[herb]

Nope. Rude is not permitted.

A reminder to all:

Forum Rules

8. Courtesy
a. Members must be polite at all times. When addressing another Forum user, you will be polite. Courteous discussion is welcome here but heated and abusive argument is not. If attacked you are not allowed to respond in kind. Instead use the Private Message system and try to resolve matters privately and amicably. If problems persist ask for the help of a Moderator.

I should of avoided mentioning "if it was rude so be it" because i indicted myself , it was trickery and i fell for it .

I said the exact same thing throughout the thread that i thought it was a waste to argue because you will never get any one of them to budge even if groundbreaking news tied to a brick came through their window and caused them instant amnesia.

Feel free to ban me if you wish , i am not politically correct and make no apologies for what i feel needs no apologies.

 

[VNeil]

Cell harm seen in lab tests of e-cigarettes...

It is the above thread that illustrates why I put so little weight on lab rat and tissue tests. If "researchers" can game an eCig test such that they conclude "I believe they are no better than smoking regular cigarettes." then how can I possibly put any weight in any similar experiment, including the Diketone experiments? And when faced with those very suspect experiments on the one hand, and the overwhelming evidence of millions of vapers and a billion smokers on the other hand, for me the side that wins out is obvious.

Those that are so enamored with the Diketone tissue experiments need to explain why they believe those results while surely they place no faith in that VA study I linked to. Consider that a challenge

 

[crxess]

Feel free to ban me if you wish , i am not politically correct and make no apologies for what i feel needs no apologies.

Come on, no one is trying to get you Banned.

Now, don't you think it is just slightly one sided assuming everyone disagreeing would continue to do so if a Solid connection was made?
I for one have never had a problem with properly controlled gainful Animal testing. I also do not believe 100% in the results of Animal testing(early stages) as often later testing proves opposite.
Today, Biopsies are exceedingly simple to perform and internal medicine has advanced beyond the imagination of many.
Trust me, I have been guinea pigged so much this past year, I'm worn from it all.

I personally do learn from Data. Always have and have always questioned until the answer was documented and factual.

I do get tired of all the Bickering back and forth with most using nothing but Years old, done and forgotten testing. The continuation of science is critical if there is even a question of Bad or unacceptable.

The subject is not Black and White. If it was, Tobacco would not be legal.< My argument For - Nicotine for my E-liquids comes from Tobacco>
Should Shrimp Be Banned? It is Deadly to many.
Peanuts? - yep, some would die from just breathing the dust from grinding peanuts.

Avoidable Risk........100% Agree, By Choice

I will even leave more up to date NIOSH Comment for everyone's Perusal.

NIOSH submits letter to the editor concerning our diacetyl study

Industrial Levels are for 45 year Working Exposure

*** Everyone here needs to take note***
The Harvard Study WAS a TARGETED study of e-liquids KNOWN to carry exceedingly HIGH levels of a POSSIBLY Dangerous chemical Previously TESTED in conjunction with making POPCORN Butter, involving other UNDISCLOSED possible Risk Chemicals, as per NIOSH and CDC reports.

Personally, I DIY and minimize my risk

 

[crxess]

Agree or Disagree,
This is a Must read in that it directly pertains to This Threads Creation.

How The Media Totally Exaggerated Study On Risk Of ‘Popcorn Lung’ From E-Cigarettes

 

[crxess]

People did also read this one didn't they?

The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary: New Study Finds that Average Diacetyl Exposure from Vaping is 750 Times Lower than from Smoking

Lonely in here.

 

[Douggro]

People did also read this one didn't they?

The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary: New Study Finds that Average Diacetyl Exposure from Vaping is 750 Times Lower than from Smoking

Lonely in here.

You're not alone - I'm lurking. Have the week off. Going vaping shopping with the sister-in-law later = possible convert.

Thanks for the posted links. Read them and it reinforces the main thrust of debate in this thread: the Harvard "study" was a propaganda piece, picked up (after being tossed at them) by the media and blown completely out of proportion by omission of fact.

 

[VNeil]

Here's an interesting factoid I just ran across (and had wondered about for quite some time)...

(link below edited to correct link...)
Diacetyl exposure as a pneumotoxic factor: a review. - PubMed - NCBI
(download the free full text...)

"For quality control purposes, the opening of microwave popcorn bags released 780 µg diacetyl/bag into the air as well as other VOCs [36]. Thus, the actual human exposure to flavouring ingredients is in general mixed. Tobacco smoke contains 300-430 µg diacetyl/cigarette [8]."

Apparently opening a bag of popcorn releases 780 µg of Diacetyl into the air, and directly in your vicinity. Over double that found in two cigarettes!!!!!!! Why is there no warning label on my popcorn, warning me about the dangers of BO? How about the children? Do you realize any child can walk into any grocery store, buy all the popcorn they want, take it home, microwave it, and breath in those horribly toxic fumes?

Why are there no studies blaring this to the world?

 

[herb]

Come on, no one is trying to get you Banned.

Now, don't you think it is just slightly one sided assuming everyone disagreeing would continue to do so if a Solid connection was made?
I for one have never had a problem with properly controlled gainful Animal testing. I also do not believe 100% in the results of Animal testing(early stages) as often later testing proves opposite.
Today, Biopsies are exceedingly simple to perform and internal medicine has advanced beyond the imagination of many.
Trust me, I have been guinea pigged so much this past year, I'm worn from it all.

I personally do learn from Data. Always have and have always questioned until the answer was documented and factual.

I do get tired of all the Bickering back and forth with most using nothing but Years old, done and forgotten testing. The continuation of science is critical if there is even a question of Bad or unacceptable.

The subject is not Black and White. If it was, Tobacco would not be legal.< My argument For - Nicotine for my E-liquids comes from Tobacco>
Should Shrimp Be Banned? It is Deadly to many.
Peanuts? - yep, some would die from just breathing the dust from grinding peanuts.

Avoidable Risk........100% Agree, By Choice

I will even leave more up to date NIOSH Comment for everyone's Perusal.

NIOSH submits letter to the editor concerning our diacetyl study

Industrial Levels are for 45 year Working Exposure

*** Everyone here needs to take note***
The Harvard Study WAS a TARGETED study of e-liquids KNOWN to carry exceedingly HIGH levels of a POSSIBLY Dangerous chemical Previously TESTED in conjunction with making POPCORN Butter, involving other UNDISCLOSED possible Risk Chemicals, as per NIOSH and CDC reports.

Personally, I DIY and minimize my risk

First of all i did not say or mean anyone is trying to get me banned , if i get banned it is always my fault , i fully accept that , i don't mind being banned , i never have , as long as i'm banned for a good reason.

Just for the record my comments on people never budging from their " i'm right no matter what data is presented " was NOT aimed at you although i made it seem like it .

I actually consider you one of the people open to changing your mind if data is presented that is relative and applicable to this subject.

My beef is with a few individuals who have said further testing is not needed and irrelevant because 5 years from now , ten years from now will not prove anything different then we already know , i find that mindset beyond ridiculous .

I mean , c, mon pleaseeee, even disagreeing about needing further studies, i mean you just can't make this ridiculousness up .

 

[VNeil]

....My beef is with a few individuals who have said further testing is not needed and irrelevant because 5 years from now , ten years from now will not prove anything different then we already know , i find that mindset beyond ridiculous .

Actually, no one here has said such a thing. I think you make this stuff up as you go along. But feel free to prove me wrong and simply link to and quote whoever said that....

i mean you just can't make this ridiculousness up .

Actually, I think you just did make that ridiculousness up. But... feel free to prove me wrong....

 

[Douggro]

and it continues…

 

[crxess]

and it continues…

I tried

 

[Douggro]

I tried

Me too - see my preceding post here for reference.
I am becoming more convinced that we, as a species, are doomed by our own intelligence and the lack of understanding of our own fallibility. We will destroy ourselves long before the Universe ever does.

 

[Mazinny]

Here's an interesting factoid I just ran across (and had wondered about for quite some time)...

http://www.oraloncology.com/article/S1368-8375(15)00362-0/abstract

(download the free full text...)

"For quality control purposes, the opening of microwave popcorn bags released 780 µg diacetyl/bag into the air as well as other VOCs [36]. Thus, the actual human exposure to flavouring ingredients is in general mixed. Tobacco smoke contains 300-430 µg diacetyl/cigarette [8]."

Apparently opening a bag of popcorn releases 780 µg of Diacetyl into the air, and directly in your vicinity. Over double that found in two cigarettes!!!!!!! Why is there no warning label on my popcorn, warning me about the dangers of BO? How about the children? Do you realize any child can walk into any grocery store, buy all the popcorn they want, take it home, microwave it, and breath in those horribly toxic fumes?

Why are there no studies blaring this to the world?

Diacetyl has been removed from microwave popcorn years ago.

Lung Ailment Chemical Removed From Popcorn
4 major popcorn makers to drop toxic chemical
Do you need to worry about ‘popcorn lung’ from microwave snacks?

 

[Mazinny]

You do not have to be condescending to me,it's awfully annoying.

Sorry, sometimes i am convinced that you are trolling me, but you are right, the tone in my post was out of line and i apologize.

 

[VNeil]

Diacetyl has been removed from microwave popcorn years ago.

Lung Ailment Chemical Removed From Popcorn
4 major popcorn makers to drop toxic chemical
Do you need to worry about ‘popcorn lung’ from microwave snacks?

And replaced with what? Feel free to find and post more up to date data. If the numbers are now 780 µg of Acetoin and/or AP, does that negate the point I'm making?

 

[Super Flex]

Outstanding post !!!!


Absolutely "shocked" that nobody has eaten you alive over this post because when i said essentially the same thing a few pages back i was flooded with naysayers lol.

Some saying they don't think smoking has anything to do with breathing issues and if it did it's the diketones that would clearly NOT be responsible so it had to be the other 3,999 other chemicals that had to be at fault .

Thanks for bringing up the obvious relation to needing oxygen tanks as well due to smoking , when i said 4 close friends and family members were on oxygen tanks due to smoking before they passed i was also called out and responded to with a "i never heard or have seen anybody needing oxygen tanks " because of smoking .

It's this kind of ridiculousness that makes me bust out laughing . Apparently all it takes is for someone else to post the obvious to get your point across in here without being questioned lol.

I was there I still have the tanks and the respirator here in my home, the VA sends people out once a month to check if I use them, in the four plus months that I have been vaping my O2 blood levels have rose from the 89 to 97 and that's not smoking and strictly vaping, also I have lost weight, my energy levels are up and I am also close to being off my diabetes medication. So when I say that vaping has saved my life I mean it. I am here to tell you that when you put those sticks down, positive things happen to your health. Don't by into this garbage, there are people here that know first hand the how vaping has helped.

 

[crxess]

Since this does pertain to the Subject matter, I just had to share. It is from a comment on 5 Pawns Legal action Pertaining to DA/AP.
The Poster ends with this:

Some e-liquids manufactured by other companies are sold without DA and AP, propylene glycol, nicotine, or flavors, as it is possible to source ingredients that do not contain these toxic ingredients.

Straight Vg Vaper? ...........Maybe a recreational Cloud Chaser

We are a strange lot.........as a whole

 

[crxess]

I was there I still have the tanks and the respirator here in my home, the VA sends people out once a month to check if I use them, in the four plus months that I have been vaping my O2 blood levels have rose from the 89 to 97 and that's not smoking and strictly vaping, also I have lost weight, my energy levels are up and I am also close to being off my diabetes medication. So when I say that vaping has saved my life I mean it. I am here to tell you that when you put those sticks down, positive things happen to your health. Don't by into this garbage, there are people here that know first hand the how vaping has helped.

Thank you for your testimonial!
Keep up the good health practices and enjoy the rewards.