Harvard Eliquid Study Today

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Mazinny

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He's interrogating you because you are trying to counter his arguments.
Nothing more than that as far as I can see.
:)
Sorry i don't see it that way. The only argument he made was based on high levels of diacetyl in popcorn, and i just pointed out to him that the popcorn manufacturers have said it has been removed long ago. I made no other claims. He just seems to get really angry and contentious, when it's pointed out that his "facts" are incorrect. It's silly, and imo it hurts the cause of vaping if we are seen to be defensive, contentious, cherry picking data and using them out of context, or even worse, deliberately disseminating false information. The end doesn't justify the means, and we don't want to come across as hypocrites by using the same tactics we accuse the so called ANTZ of.
 
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crxess

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VNeil

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Sorry i don't see it that way. The only argument he made was based on high levels of diacetyl in popcorn, and i just pointed out to him that the popcorn manufacturers have said it has been removed long ago. I made no other claims. He just seems to get really angry and contentious, when it's pointed out that his "facts" are incorrect. It's silly, and imo it hurts the cause of vaping if we are seen to be defensive, contentious, cherry picking data and using them out of context, or even worse, deliberately disseminating false information. The end doesn't justify the means, and we don't want to come across as hypocrites by using the same tactics we accuse the so called ANTZ of.
Here is what your first link says...

"The nation's four biggest makers of microwave popcorn have removed a flavoring chemical that has been linked to a lung ailment in popcorn plant workers from nearly all their products.

The companies say all their microwave popcorn recipes should be changed by January."


The first two sentences are a total contradiction. The first says it has been removed. The second suggests a promise for a future change in their recipe.

I put no more credence in your assertion that Diacetyl has been removed from popcorn than that article, which contradicted itself before it even got started.

I have no interest in convincing you of anything. But I do like to point these things out for the benefit of those open minded readers that are interested in FACTS. I'm not sure we really know what is in current production popcorn. And in fact, NIOSH even appears to lose interest in the subject since anything I've found that they've written after January 2006 seems to just regurgitate the prior studies. If anyone has later NIOSH or other first hand on the scene reports I'd like to see the links.

But for those interested, consider this... the only mention in official sources regarding replacing diacetyl with specific compounds involved Acetoin and AP, both of which are diketones and considered at least as evil for vaping, and presumably popcorn workers too. I DIY with TFA flavors. They long ago replaced diacetyl with Acetoin and AP (or perhaps never used diacetyl???). They have used Butyric Acid to replace Acetoin and AP in their "DX" flavors. But their original butter flavor still contains only Acetoin and AP as flavors and they have not yet created a "Butter DX" flavor with BA. From that I can only assume BA is not a good substitute for butter flavor.

So it is very likely the popcorn industry is using either DIacetyl, Acetoin or AP. All of which are considered evil here.

Now, @Mazinny, you could contribute to this conversation by posting evidence of what exactly is in current production popcorn butter flavoring, and the amounts released when a bag is popped. I for one would like to see my source updated. And by the way, my source is a research report posted in 2013-14, not some old research circa 2007. Perhaps his info was out of date? So if you want to pick nits with me over this, you also need to pick nits with that researcher.

Lots of questions, none of which you are interested in discussing because you are only interested in picking nits, not discussing the facts, and you said so yourself.
 
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Rossum

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But for those interested, consider this... the only mention in official sources regarding replacing diacetyl with specific compounds involved Acetoin and AP, both of which are diketones and considered at least as evil for vaping,
Uh, no. Acetoin is NOT a diketone.
 

Mazinny

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Here is what your first link says...

"The nation's four biggest makers of microwave popcorn have removed a flavoring chemical that has been linked to a lung ailment in popcorn plant workers from nearly all their products.

The companies say all their microwave popcorn recipes should be changed by January."


The first two sentences are a total contradiction. The first says it has been removed. The second suggests a promise for a future change in their recipe.

I put no more credence in your assertion that Diacetyl has been removed from popcorn than that article, which contradicted itself before it even got started.

I have no interest in convincing you of anything. But I do like to point these things out for the benefit of those open minded readers that are interested in FACTS. I'm not sure we really know what is in current production popcorn. And in fact, NIOSH even appears to lose interest in the subject since anything I've found that they've written after January 2006 seems to just regurgitate the prior studies. If anyone has later NIOSH or other first hand on the scene reports I'd like to see the links.

But for those interested, consider this... the only mention in official sources regarding replacing diacetyl with specific compounds involved Acetoin and AP, both of which are diketones and considered at least as evil for vaping, and presumably popcorn workers too. I DIY with TFA flavors. They long ago replaced diacetyl with Acetoin and AP (or perhaps never used diacetyl???). They have used Butyric Acid to replace Acetoin and AP in their "DX" flavors. But their original butter flavor still contains only Acetoin and AP as flavors and they have not yet created a "Butter DX" flavor with BA. From that I can only assume BA is not a good substitute for butter flavor.
publish
So it is very likely the popcorn industry is using either DIacetyl, Acetoin or AP. All of which are considered evil here.

Now, @Mazinny, you could contribute to this conversation by posting evidence of what exactly is in current production popcorn butter flavoring, and the amounts released when a bag is popped. I for one would like to see my source updated. And by the way, my source is a research report posted in 2013-14, not some old research circa 2007. Perhaps his info was out of date? So if you want to pick nits with me over this, you also need to pick nits with that researcher.

Lots of questions, none of which you are interested in discussing because you are only interested in picking nits, not discussing the facts, and you said so yourself.
As i said before, i will not respond to your interrogations re " current production of popcorn butter flavoring " , because get this, i find it irresponsible to publish capital letter "FACTS" , on a topic which i don't have knowledge. For anyone interested in going back twenty pages or so( very few i imagine ), your track record on the accuracy of your " FACTS " is clear. Much easier, for me at least, to assume your facts ( at least on this topic ) are tailored to support your viewpoint rather than having any basis in truth, and i am pretty certain i will be correct more often than not. I mean start with the absolute basics, just a few days ago you thought AP is a substitute for diketones ( not a diketone itself ) and now you are claiming acetoin is a diketone. It is very near to impossible to be as clueless as you are on this topic, but oddly enough you have posted more " FACTS " than everyone else in the thread combined.
 

Robino1

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It's all true about the popcorn. I strung bagged popcorn on the Christmas Tree and 2 weeks later, all the needles fell off. The Latency period is much shorter than I would've expected....
You do know you have to water the tree....right? ;)
 

Rossum

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Umm I watered mine but it short circuited the built in lights and caught fire. I don't know what happened. :confused:
You obviously don't understand Ohm's Law -- back to the Simple Solutions section of the forum with you! :laugh:
 

CMD-Ky

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I no longer believe anything that is written regarding food, additives, vaping or production methods. To much of what is considered "science" is either paid for or it is agenda driven. There is something out there to support or destroy anyone's belief. And, a belief is not a substitute for knowledge.
I lack the underlying scientific knowledge to analyze the methodology, conclusions or the data upon which the conclusions are based. I am unashamed to admit this deficiency. As Reagan said, "Trust but verify", but as I am without any mechanism to verify; I trust nothing that is published - pro, con or neutral. In essence, I cannot tell the truth from the lie.
 

Jman8

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I no longer believe anything that is written regarding food, additives, vaping or production methods. To much of what is considered "science" is either paid for or it is agenda driven. There is something out there to support or destroy anyone's belief. And, a belief is not a substitute for knowledge.
I lack the underlying scientific knowledge to analyze the methodology, conclusions or the data upon which the conclusions are based. I am unashamed to admit this deficiency. As Reagan said, "Trust but verify", but as I am without any mechanism to verify; I trust nothing that is published - pro, con or neutral. In essence, I cannot tell the truth from the lie.

Very honest. Which is a quality that is far from a deficiency.
 
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