Harvard Eliquid Study Today

[ReigntheGamer]

I'll tell you something I find strange... it is my understanding that smoker's COPD is irreversible and lung degradation continues for the rest of your life. If that is the case, and considering that on this site, for example, we have over a quarter of a million smokers and ex smokers, all along the spectrum of COPD, from mild to severe, then I would have expected to see numerous reports of people having continued lung difficulties, even after quitting smoking. And, of course, the way people generally incorrectly relate correlation to cause, I would expect to see hundreds of people here complaining about continuing lung issues, and also of course blaming it on vaping, regardless of source.

Yet those cases here are amazingly rare. I can count on one hand the number I've read. Reports of clearer lungs are almost universal.

It absolutely defies belief that there is some Silent Epidemic of BO happening in the vaping community. Quite the opposite, vaping more resembles some sort of miracle cure, if all the hand wringing over COPD are correct. Maybe it is, maybe inhaling an antibacterial/antiviral all day long does some miracle work.

I was a 2 PAD smoker for about 20 years who suffered from asthma, I was using a 200 puff inhaler once a month. Since I've started vaping even with diketones the same inhaler now lasts me 4-5 months. That is the evidence I look at to tell me if vaping is better for me not some study from people that absolutely do not have my best interest at heart.

 

[herb]

People say it because in the known cases of problems from diketones the previous scientific data manifested in months, not years. Therefore a reasonable person, using common sense, would understand that it ought to have manifested by now in vapers. A person skirting the issue is holding out hope(?) that the bad news will arrive some day in the future (i.e. 30 years from now) so they can be proven right.



It is clearly not too early in the game when it comes to inhaling diketones.

Once again, you are raising point(s) that suggests EVERYTHING ANTZ are saying could be (or ought to be) held as true for vaping. Where's the scientific data on inhaling nicotine? We have none. What? You want to point to previous smokers? That can't possibly apply because we are talking about vaping. So, by this (strange) logic, we have no basis for any defense of any sort for vaping. Can't say it is safer than smoking cause how would we know (without the long term data)?

That's where your nonsensical approach leaves us.

And then when you consider that things could change because of fear mongering, then if say diketones are removed and long term data of the 30 year variety shows that the substitutes are 'gravely dangerous,' we will never have (actually) known what the diketone consequences would be. So, this gamble that people talk about with regards to allowing diketones to stay is EQUALLY APPLICABLE to all aspects of vaping.

In reality, it's equally applicable to all aspects of living.

I apologize for only reading your first comment but i already know exactly what your going to say and as ALWAYS you didn't disappoint and continue to say it anyway . I find it incredibly funny that you really believe that all health issues should reveal themselves in months not years .

It seems Charlie Nobles e liquid company also gets it but unfortunately you never will , here's what CN said within the last week .

Alright, I see why they wanted to conduct a study concerning Diacetyl and e-cigs.

Absolutely. Vaping hasn't been around long enough for there to be peer-reviewed long-term data yet. There have been multiple studies conducted in the past several years, but there hasn't been any conclusive determinations as of now. The problem isn't with conducting studies and tests. The problems arise from who is doing the testing, how they are doing the testing, who is funding the testing, what everyone's agendas are, and how the results are presented. This particular study isn't even the first one in the past year that has been exposed as fatally flawed.

 

[VNeil]

I apologize for only reading your first comment but i already know exactly what your going to say and as ALWAYS you didn't disappoint and continue to say it anyway . I find it incredibly funny that you really believe that all health issues should reveal themselves in months not years .

I

That is the history of BO. Only two years before significant lung damage occurs. But you haven't shown much interest in the facts, so.... Laugh away

 

[herb]

That is the history of BO. Only two years before significant lung damage occurs. But you haven't shown much interest in the facts, so.... Laugh away

I am , i haven't stopped actually LOL . Thank God people weren't stupid enough to judge the harms of smoking by a two year study .

Time to move on from this ridiculousness

Have a good one people

 

[crxess]

I am , i haven't stopped actually LOL . Thank God people weren't stupid enough to judge the harms of smoking by a two year study .

Time to move on from this ridiculousness

Have a good one people

 

[WharfRat1976]

My overall health and teeth and gums have improved incredibly since I stopped smoking and started vaping in May of 2014.

All the proof I need. Analogs were literally killing me.

 

[skoony]

I am , i haven't stopped actually LOL . Thank God people weren't stupid enough to judge the harms of smoking by a two year study .

Time to move on from this ridiculousness

Have a good one people

Actually there are documented cases. Most notably the two workers from the coffee roasting plant
in Texas. I think the source of confusion is the workers as a whole had been exposed from periods
of less than 18 months to ten years maybe be more. Not all outbreaks were exact copies of another.
Regards
Mike

 

[Jman8]

I find it incredibly funny that you really believe that all health issues should reveal themselves in months not years .

I think it funny that you think it'll take years and not millennia. It'll be another 2,015 years before we'll truly know.

 

[David Wolf]

I'm not sure if this has been posted, if it has I apologize but it puts the Harvard study into perspective.

Everybody is talking about vaping and "popcorn lung" again, so here's a graph

View attachment 515397

Good work, accurate graph as far as comparison to the Harvard study goes. I am aware as someone here posted that those vaping a lot of ejuice, say 20 ml a day would possibly get pretty high doses of DAP for some of the worst offending juices out there.

 

[crxess]

Good work, accurate graph as far as comparison to the Harvard study goes. I am aware as someone here posted that those vaping a lot of ejuice, say 20 ml a day would possibly get pretty high doses of DAP for some of the worst offending juices out there.

IF, that was the only type E-liquid they Vaped.
I Vape 20ml day quite often, off on disability and up 18-22hrs/day, but I swap flavors often and vary between 4-6 Flavors.
I also DIY and avoid high concentrations of Flavoring.
Where Vendor e-liquids may top 25%-35%, my typical vapes are 8%-16%

 

[David Wolf]

IF, that was the only type E-liquid they Vaped.
I Vape 20ml day quite often, off on disability and up 18-22hrs/day, but I swap flavors often and vary between 4-6 Flavors.
I also DIY and avoid high concentrations of Flavoring.
Where Vendor e-liquids may top 25%-35%, my typical vapes are 8%-16%

Agreed. Most juices will still be way low on DAP even at 20 ml. You would almost have to search for the worst juice to even come close to cigarettes and vape a LOT of it lol. I'm vaping unflavored 22 mg nude nicotine base right now and when I vape flavored or nets it's light as well.

 

[ReigntheGamer]

IF, that was the only type E-liquid they Vaped.
I Vape 20ml day quite often, off on disability and up 18-22hrs/day, but I swap flavors often and vary between 4-6 Flavors.
I also DIY and avoid high concentrations of Flavoring.
Where Vendor e-liquids may top 25%-35%, my typical vapes are 8%-16%

I fit in that category somewhat I vape about 12 mls a day of The Virus which the results for it are stickied in the NT sub forums. I have started to cut it with unflavored in the last few months but that was more for monetary reasons than anything else. I did try other flavors for awhile when I first started vaping but am one of those people who find one thing they like and stick to it.

And I feel very comfortable doing so based on their test results and the information I have read on the topic.

 

[sparkky1]

I am , i haven't stopped actually LOL . Thank God people weren't stupid enough to judge the harms of smoking by a two year study .

Time to move on from this ridiculousness

Have a good one people

Smokers don't judge the harms of smoking, nor do they care about the ingredients ........................

 

[Rossum]

Smokers don't judge the harms of smoking, nor do they care about the ingredients

Smokers accept that smoking is bad for them, but it seems to me they do try to minimize the harm. They switched en masse, first from plain to filtered cigarettes, and later from full-flavor to "light" and even "ultra-light" cigarettes, because they were convinced doing so would reduce the harms associated with smoking. And if smokers don't care about the ingredients, why have "Natural American Spirits" a brand which claims to be free of additives become as popular as they have despite being more expensive than other "premium" brands?

 

[englishmick]

Smokers accept that smoking is bad for them, but it seems to me they do try to minimize the harm. They switched en masse, first from plain to filtered cigarettes, and later from full-flavor to "light" and even "ultra-light" cigarettes, because they were convinced doing so would reduce the harms associated with smoking. And if smokers don't care about the ingredients, why have "Natural American Spirits" a brand which claims to be free of additives become as popular as they have despite being more expensive than other "premium" brands?

Yeah, I smoked them for a long time. Still have no idea if they are actually less harmful than Marlboro's. Once in a while I had to pick up Marlboro Lights at some place where they didn't sell AS, and the Marlboros tasted stale and nasty. Sad thing is after a couple of packs I wouldn't notice the nasty taste any more.

Sometimes I picked up expensive foreign cigs and they tasted good too. Piccadilly or Dunhill. Used to smoke them in England. I don't know if it's true but I read that in Europe the rules on additives are stricter than in America.

Now I'm getting nostalgic. When I started smoking in the 60's you could buy packs of 3 or 5 cigs. My favorite were Passing Cloud. They were unfiltered and had a slightly flattened oval shape, came in a really beautiful pink and sky blue pack if my memory serves me well. They stopped selling them around the early 70's. And Du Maurier. They came in a flat pack, two layers of 10 cigs with a whole side that flipped up rather than opening at one end. It was fun for a while back then, but after a few years it was just an ugly monkey sitting on my back that I couldn't get rid of.

A few years ago I saw an unopened pack of Passing Cloud for sale for a lot of money on the internet. There's a collecting scene for old cigarette packs in England, and full unopened packs go for high prices. Don't know if people do that here in America.

 

[sparkky1]

Smokers accept that smoking is bad for them, but it seems to me they do try to minimize the harm. They switched en masse, first from plain to filtered cigarettes, and later from full-flavor to "light" and even "ultra-light" cigarettes, because they were convinced doing so would reduce the harms associated with smoking. And if smokers don't care about the ingredients, why have "Natural American Spirits" a brand which claims to be free of additives become as popular as they have despite being more expensive than other "premium" brands?

Seriously ? I myself have smoked every single one you mentioned, never once did I ever consider calling out the manufacture and asking what the ingredients amounts of certain chemicals were, but philip morris USA is loving you ..................... You don't find it just a little odd back to 2007 we go ? yet the states are already collecting un realistic (above cigarette) taxes on just the juice alone ........

 

[Rossum]

yet the states are already collecting un realistic (above cigarette) taxes on just the juice alone

Which ones are doing that already?

 

[DeAnna2112]

Wow because of this article my son in law has stopped vaping! no matter how many times i try to explain that the study is geared towards those vaping diketone laced liquid...he still worries about vaping general. I have come across many people who have brought up this study and they too seem to not understand what exactly this article is targeting and take it as a blanket statement for vaping in general. For the life of me i can not understand where the confusion is coming from. The article clearly states it's studying liquid flavorings that are high in diketones and it's potential negative effects...not diketone free liquids or those vaping unflavored.

I think people should be aware of the concerns being raised so they can decide for themselves if they wish to stay clear of diketones til we know more.....but some of the feedback i am hearing from people just makes me think some just want an excuse to go back to cigs honestly....and my son in law is one of them.

 

[Jman8]

Wow because of this article my son in law has stopped vaping! no matter how many times i try to explain that the study is geared towards those vaping diketone laced liquid...he still worries about vaping general. I have come across many people who have brought up this study and they too seem to not understand what exactly this article is targeting and take it as a blanket statement for vaping in general. For the life of me i can not understand where the confusion is coming from. The article clearly states it's studying liquid flavorings that are high in diketones and it's potential negative effects...not diketone free liquids or those vaping unflavored.

I think people should be aware of the concerns being raised so they can decide for themselves if they wish to stay clear of diketones til we know more.....but some of the feedback i am hearing from people just makes me think some just want an excuse to go back to cigs honestly....and my son in law is one of them.

To me it makes (relative) sense. If we don't know the health consequences from vaping diketones, and it'll take years before we really know, then who can be trusted with knowing that vaping right now is (relatively) safe? Best to stick with the danger we do know than the one we keep claiming "we don't know" or "need long term studies for."

Can't have it both ways diketone-free crowd. Sorry, dem da breaks (when appeals to emotion are all you got).

 

[DC2]

Wow because of this article my son in law has stopped vaping! no matter how many times i try to explain that the study is geared towards those vaping diketone laced liquid...he still worries about vaping general. I have come across many people who have brought up this study and they too seem to not understand what exactly this article is targeting and take it as a blanket statement for vaping in general. For the life of me i can not understand where the confusion is coming from. The article clearly states it's studying liquid flavorings that are high in diketones and it's potential negative effects...not diketone free liquids or those vaping unflavored.

I think people should be aware of the concerns being raised so they can decide for themselves if they wish to stay clear of diketones til we know more.....but some of the feedback i am hearing from people just makes me think some just want an excuse to go back to cigs honestly....and my son in law is one of them.

The problem is the mainstream media.
And of course, those that are generating this poisonous fodder for the mainstream media to offer up.

But the onus is on the "headline readers" to dig deeper.
Unfortunately, most of them don't recognize the "bigger" issues, and so do not realize they are being manipulated.

The bottom line problem is the ongoing and entrenched corruption of all players in the game...
And that the average person doesn't even realize they are being manipulated...

It's a mess that can only be solved by changing the system.

The sheep need to kill the wolves somehow.
But first, the sheep need to wake up and see what's really going on in the world.