FDA Has there been a valid answer as to "Why now?" in regards to the regulation proposals?

[Kent C]

That's where the FDA is in a Unique Situation.

As Mr. Zeller has stated Many Time.

"tobacco use is the Single Largest Preventable cause of Death in this Country Today".

But he knows that to be Scientifically Correct, he should be saying...

"Burning tobacco use is the Single Largest Preventable cause of Death in this Country Today".

So here we are Today with a Viable Alternative to getting Nicotine without Burning Tobacco. And that is a Significant Reduction to the Harm that Burning Tobacco causes.

So on One Hand if the FDA Slams e-Cigarettes, a Huge amount of people will not see a Harm Reduction. But on the Other Hand, there is No Control over Any Aspects to e-Cigarettes. NONE. And BT is way behind in the Market and carries all the Baggage that BT has from years Past.

I think the FDA will take a Middle Ground approach leaning More towards promoting Allowing e-Cigarettes than Not Allowing e-Cigarettes.

It makes sense. There can be a Level of Harm Reduction and still Maintain Profits a Steady Tax Stream.

There's two factions operating here - those concerned with harm reduction and the statists/behavior controllers. If the harm reduction faction was part of the FDA, I'd tend to agree, but I don't think that is the case. While it is true that it's going to take while, and some will point at that and say "See?" I was right! But look at how cigarettes went - cancer scare (somewhat true), coming down on advertising, labeling, kids, second hand smoke (not carcinogenic but declared so - even now when there are significant objective studies showing no carcinogenic effect, although some other effects on asthma, etc. ... duh), and the tightening of spaces where smoking is allowed and the perception that we're lepers or murderers. You can't make people lepers or murderers in the first month - it takes years to do that but that was their ultimate goal from the start. They knew best.

 

[aikanae1]

Parents wouldn't even know about ecigs if ANTZ didn't market fear to them. This was a top down effort, unlike smoking where people can smell it.

 

[patkin]

"Appeasing" assumes they care. I simply don't see them that way after reading everything that's come out the last few days. I'm not ashamed to say I previously hoped for some middle-ground level of fairness and or economic sense at the very least but its just not there. Reading the OMB report they got before coming out with this proposal confirms that loudly and clearly. They've left us at the mercy of BT and a vaper's black market. All those screaming "but I want to know what's in my juice" are going to find out just what's in it in the form of pre-filled made by BT. When they can't get what they've become accustomed to (speaking of current vapers) and turn to the black market or smoking they'll be wishing they had what they used to enjoy while their health is back at familiar risks or new ones. These are NOT "good guys" we're dealing with.

 

[zoiDman]

Parents wouldn't even know about ecigs if ANTZ didn't market fear to them. This was a top down effort, unlike smoking where people can smell it.

View attachment 330715

Not say'n that the ANTZ didn't fan the Fire. But all things Can Not be blamed on ANTZ.

Just like Cigarettes, Kids are gonna try e-Cigarettes. And all the Silly stuff that is out there Isn't Going to stop them. And Parents are going to know about it.

(Just to be Clear. I am in NO WAY an Advocate of Under Aged e-Cigarette Use.)

 

[patkin]

And when things go to the black market they will for sure.

 

[Kent C]

And when things go to the black market they will for sure.

Were it not for the black market the DEA, BATFE, and various other federal and state jobs wouldn't exist. It's their unions that are likely telling the FDA "Make sure there's a prohibition for minors".

 

[CassiusCloud]

Doesn't the FDA kinda have to take the "Flavors Must go to Save the Children" Approach to Appease the Parental Crowd worried about their kids getting hooked on e-Cigarettes?

If they want to go kicking hornets nests,that's up to them.

 

[Rickajho]

Doesn't the FDA kinda have to take the "Flavors Must go to Save the Children" Approach to Appease the Parental Crowd worried about their kids getting hooked on e-Cigarettes?

I would say refer to the great embarrassment of "We must save the ignorant minorities from themselves and their peculiar race-related attraction to menthol flavor cigarettes" to see how far they can push the envelope a second time.

 

[zoiDman]

I would say refer to the great embarrassment of "We must save the ignorant minorities from themselves and their peculiar race-related attraction to menthol flavor cigarettes" to see how far they can push the envelope a second time.

Playing the Race Card doesn't work well. In this or Most Cases. But the "Save the Children" Card is in the Kings Court.

You can come out and say that the Gas Tank in some Car Model has been Exploding killing People Left and Right. It might raise an eyebrow here and there. But that is about it.

But you come out and say that an Air Bag Malfunctioned and Killed a Child. Wow... Look at. There going to burn Effigies of your on your Corporate Headquarts steps. And people Across the Nation are Going to be Angry.

Removing Flavorings from e-Cigarette e-Liquids is the Least of my Worries. And it will give the ANTZ something to Clap about at their Victory Rally.

Let them Sell Unflavored. I can put a Drop or Two of Food Flavoring into my e-Liquids.

But that is All Based on being able to Buy Liquid e-Liquids in Bottles. And that is what I am Afraid of. No More Bottled e-Liquids.

 

[Kent C]

Playing the Race Card doesn't work well. In this or Most Cases. But the "Save the Children" Card is in the Kings Court.

You can come out and say that the Gas Tank in some Car Model has been Exploding killing People Left and Right. It might raise an eyebrow here and there. But that is about it.

But you come out and say that an Air Bag Malfunctioned and Killed a Child. Wow... Look at. There going to burn Effigies of your on your Corporate Headquarts steps. And people Across the Nation are Going to be Angry.

Removing Flavorings from e-Cigarette e-Liquids is the Least of my Worries. And it will give the ANTZ something to Clap about at their Victory Rally.

Let them Sell Unflavored. I can put a Drop or Two of Food Flavoring into my e-Liquids.

But that is All Based on being able to Buy Liquid e-Liquids in Bottles. And that is what I am Afraid of. No More Bottled e-Liquids.

(italics) That's ABC who got caught rigging a trunk tank to blow up.

(bold) That's actually a functioning airbag that beheaded a 9 year old girl. The effigies should have been Ralph Nader, Joan Claybrook, and Elizabeth Dole (and others) who pushed the legislation.....

 

[zoiDman]

(italics) That's ABC who got caught rigging a trunk tank to blow up.

(bold) That's actually a functioning airbag that beheaded a 9 year old girl. The effigies should have been Ralph Nader, Joan Claybrook, and Elizabeth Dole (and others) who pushed the legislation.....

That's why I like Reading your Posts Kent... You Don't Miss Much.

Even if it is Veiled. Or a Quasi Quote from WW2.

 

[Kent C]

That's why I like Reading your Posts Kent... You Don't Miss Much.

Even if it is Veiled. Or a Quasi Quote from WW2.

It's a blessing and curse. Adrian Monk

 

[Kent C]

That's why I like Reading your Posts Kent... You Don't Miss Much.

Even if it is Veiled. Or a Quasi Quote from WW2.

You'd like my 'FDA history'. Here's a hint:

https://cen.acs.org/articles/91/i37/Chemistry-Nazi-Germany.html

but you have got to connect the dots to get there. lol

 

[zoiDman]

You'd like my 'FDA history'. Here's a hint:

https://cen.acs.org/articles/91/i37/Chemistry-Nazi-Germany.html

but you have got to connect the dots to get there. lol

Funny how seemingly Random Connects sometimes occur.

I was talking/debating with someone Yesterday regarding the Merits of the FDA. Both Today and in the Past. I brought up Dr. Frances Kelsey and Thalidomide.

The History of the FDA seems to be On Everyone's Mind these days.

LOL

 

[Gato del Jugo]

View attachment 330715

We need more graphics like this..

 

[patkin]

In all fairness, they aren't banning anything right now. Also, it's hard to know exactly what is in some juices because people who make them out of their house or even at their stores, can put whatever they want in them.

One of the thing's that the FDA will not let the vaping community do is say its safer than smoking a cigarette. I feel one of the reasons that there cannot be a good study on this is because the juice is not regulated, so you can say, yeah if you go to xyz store and buy their juice then its safer than smoking. But if you go to Nate's house and buy his juice then its not. Regulations requiring theres an ingredients label, I feel, is going to get us closer to being able to do a real study.

Just my thoughts.

You really, really, need to do some research on what you're putting forth here. Its soooo wrong. Do a search on these boards to learn the background including the local/state inspections and control of facilities. I'm not being snarky... truly. I'm just trying to squelch the disinformation here.