Having problems with TC on Pico Mega

[Mohid]

Hi everyone. I'm new to TC and having some problems understanding the whole thing. Here's my story.

I built my first SS316L coil on EGO CLR which came at 0.40ohm. I set my mod at SS mode and tried a few different temperatures. 340F seemed good. I wasn't sure if this was the correct SS setting as there are a few different SS wires. Then I Googled and found that SS316L has a TCR value of 92 so I set that in custom mode and now the almost the same vape was at 370F. So I kept using it. But, every time I refilled my tank, the resistance changed between 0.39 to 0.42 and with that I had to adjust temperature to get consistent vape - - with higher resistance I needed higher temperature. 370F at 0.39 to 400F at 0.42. So today it seemed like the vapor was decreased a lot so I rewicked the coil after dry firing a few times (even though I still didn't like the look of the coil after dry firing). This time I put the tank on and the mod asks me whether it's a new coil, I say yes. I didn't change any other setting on the mod. Now the resistance changed to 0.45. And this time the temperature doesn't even get to 370F. It was hovering around 250 270 in the few seconds of every drag but the vape was considerably warmer. I don't get what is going on at all. Help

PS: I did lock resistance after I first built the coil and after rewicking.

Edit and PPS: I'm at 21W with 30W preheat for 0.3 sec

 

[Izan]

Hi everyone. I'm new to TC and having some problems understanding the whole thing. Here's my story.

I built my first SS316L coil on EGO CLR which came at 0.40ohm. I set my mod at SS mode and tried a few different temperatures. 340F seemed good. I wasn't sure if this was the correct SS setting as there are a few different SS wires. Then I Googled and found that SS316L has a TCR value of 92 so I set that in custom mode and now the almost the same vape was at 370F. So I kept using it. But, every time I refilled my tank, the resistance changed between 0.39 to 0.42 and with that I had to adjust temperature to get consistent vape - - with higher resistance I needed higher temperature. 370F at 0.39 to 400F at 0.42. So today it seemed like the vapor was decreased a lot so I rewicked the coil after dry firing a few times (even though I still didn't like the look of the coil after dry firing). This time I put the tank on and the mod asks me whether it's a new coil, I say yes. I didn't change any other setting on the mod. Now the resistance changed to 0.45. And this time the temperature doesn't even get to 370F. It was hovering around 250 270 in the few seconds of every drag but the vape was considerably warmer. I don't get what is going on at all. Help

PS: I did lock resistance after I first built the coil and after rewicking.

Edit and PPS: I'm at 21W with 30W preheat for 0.3 sec

My experience with the CL-Rs in TC has been less then stellar. In general, I run 316/CL-Rs in wattage mode.

The pico/Evic minis I own have all been upgraded to the ARTICFOX firmware.
I have found the AF firmware to be much more user friendly in TC mode. I suggest all TC mode usage to be with an atomizer that can securely capture/clamp the leads in place. CL-Rs fail in that regard.

Perhaps take the watts down to 15W and disable the preheat.

Cheers
I

 

[stols001]

With that said, SS wire resistance does change over time, has been my experience. It's not terrible, it's just that it does seem to change a fair amount after first heat, length of use, and etc. That makes it a bit of a moving target, so I'd say you may want to use it on a more accurate TC mod or as Izan said, upgrade your mod's TC capabilities. It's actually nice to have a mod who will do the calculations automatically with a bit less effort on your part.... I have found SS to be good in TC but it can become a bit of a moving target, resistance wise.

Hopefully I'm not alone in that... it's possible, though!


Anna

 

[Carl2]

I've got an Eleaf Pico 25 I was hoping to use with a Smok TFV8 Big baby beast tank with an RBA deck, that has dual SS Clapton coils .40 ohms. That wouldn't work so I checked the resistance of the Eleaf coils and used that in a Griffin mini 25
Tank, very close match in resistance that worked for a while. Simply after 5 to 10 min use it will switch to wattage mode. A new set of coils does the same thing, the tank works fine with a Voopoo unit. I just did a firmware update and have the same problem.

 

[Beamslider]

Bottom fill tanks are not the greatest for TC on most mods. If you fill it right after vaping and you don't let it cool back down to room temp after filling it the ohm reading will change and mess it up.

The arctic fox firmware as mentioned by Izan is a good option. I have had decent luck with the CLR coils in TC but they have to be spaced coils or will cause trouble for you.

 

[Mohid]

Thanks all for the replies. I can understand the coil changing resistance, however why would the temperature setting be messed up after rewicking? I'm gonna upgrade the firmware and see if it fixes anything.

 

[KenD]

Thanks all for the replies. I can understand the coil changing resistance, however why would the temperature setting be messed up after rewicking? I'm gonna upgrade the firmware and see if it fixes anything.

Do you choose "yes" at the new/old coil question after refilling the tank? Don't, as that will mess up the tc. Also, I believe the preheat is only for power mode. In tc mode you simply set the wattage high enough for the coil to reach temperature fast enough.

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

 

[Mohid]

No. It doesn't ask after refilling. Now I updated to Arcticfox and the situation as as the following:

I set SS316L TFR from the PC utility and 21W. Built another coil which is 0.42ohm. The the temperature during normal 3-4 puffs is remains around 270F and struggles to get higher. I'm actually concerned about whether it is realistic temperature because of the thread about formaldehyde on higher temperatures. Do others with a similar resistance and wattage get similar temperature?

 

[GeorgeS]

I love the little CLR coils, I really do however:

• the coil legs are not captured by screws which makes stable resistance difficult at best for low TCR wire
• I'd suggest using a atomizer with screws to capture the wire

Disclaimer: I use a Pico-Mega with Artic fox everyday.

 

[Mohid]

I love the little CLR coils, I really do however:

• the coil legs are not captured by screws which makes stable resistance difficult at best for low TCR wire
• I'd suggest using a atomizer with screws to capture the wire

Disclaimer: I use a Pico-Mega with Artic fox everyday.

So now I should start looking for a decent quality, cheap and leak free RTA which is also durable and small enough, while holding at least 4ml of juice to take everywhere with me. Should be easy

 

[Carl2]

Go with a Smok TFV8 Big Baby Beast, I have 3 which means I really like them, I'll mention I also have the RBA deck. It took a while but I've got the wicking down pat no leaking or popping.

 

[GeorgeS]

So now I should start looking for a decent quality, cheap and leak free RTA which is also durable and small enough, while holding at least 4ml of juice to take everywhere with me. Should be easy

I use a KFv5 clone on mine.

(I think it hits all the bullet points PLUS is top fill)

 

[Mohid]

Go with a Smok TFV8 Big Baby Beast, I have 3 which means I really like them, I'll mention I also have the RBA deck. It took a while but I've got the wicking down pat no leaking or popping.

That one won't fit on the pico

 

[Mohid]

I use a KFv5 clone on mine.

(I think it hits all the bullet points PLUS is top fill)

Subtank mini seems to be the winner here

 

[Bundy1971]

Subtank mini seems to be the winner here

Just started doing TC myself, so I'm just learning, but understand where you are. My problem was a little different in that I was always hitting "Temp Protection" immediately when firing, but basically the same problem in that I couldn't get a good vape in TC/TCR mode. I'll try to answer your questions and tell you what I did to get my TC working pretty well.

I have the Pico 75W with a Geekvape Ammit RTA. The Ammit is my first RTA, but I love it! 3.5ml, top fill, easy deck to build on, great flavor and no leaks. I haven't switched to Arctic Fox yet; I'm running the 1.03 Eleaf firmware. I've been building different SS316L coils to figure out my sweet spot, but settling in the .6Ω range.

The Pico is pretty inaccurate in SS mode. At 340ºF you were probably vaping at closer to 400ºF. I always settled at around 340ºF in SS mode too, but with the correct TCR I get the same vape at ~400ºF. There are videos that demonstrate the inaccuracy of the Pico in SS mode.

The resistance on SS316 does change even when locked in. It was explained to me that the device adjusts to "live" resistance over time, and mine varies +/-.03Ω. You may end up changing the temperature when changing coils because you will never have the exact same coil (i.e. different amount of cotton, different coil spacing, different leg length, etc.). I assume you use a spaced coil? If not, I highly recommend it. Also, though I'm sure there are differing opinions, I NEVER dry burn my coils (not really necessary with spaced coils). Some experts say super heating the coils causes the metal composition to change and the chromium in SS changes to hexavalent chromium. If you dry fire, you may want to call Erin Brockovich.

I haven't played around with TFR yet, so maybe this won't help, but the TCR for SS316L is 88, not 92. The wattage setting just tells the mod what wattage to use to get to the temp setting; too low and it will struggle to get to the temp (could be your problem), too high and it will get there too fast (one of my initial problems). The ramp up/pre-heat settings have nothing to do with TC; that's for power mode.

I finally ended up at settings of: ~.6Ω, TCR 88, 15W, 380ºF-410ºF and it's the best vaping experience I've had in the 3+ years I've been vaping.

p.s. As I said, I'm new to TC, so I'm not claiming to be an expert, just letting you know what I've learned and what I found works for me.

 

[Mohid]

Just started doing TC myself, so I'm just learning, but understand where you are. My problem was a little different in that I was always hitting "Temp Protection" immediately when firing, but basically the same problem in that I couldn't get a good vape in TC/TCR mode. I'll try to answer your questions and tell you what I did to get my TC working pretty well.

I have the Pico 75W with a Geekvape Ammit RTA. The Ammit is my first RTA, but I love it! 3.5ml, top fill, easy deck to build on, great flavor and no leaks. I haven't switched to Arctic Fox yet; I'm running the 1.03 Eleaf firmware. I've been building different SS316L coils to figure out my sweet spot, but settling in the .6Ω range.

The Pico is pretty inaccurate in SS mode. At 340ºF you were probably vaping at closer to 400ºF. I always settled at around 340ºF in SS mode too, but with the correct TCR I get the same vape at ~400ºF. There are videos that demonstrate the inaccuracy of the Pico in SS mode.

The resistance on SS316 does change even when locked in. It was explained to me that the device adjusts to "live" resistance over time, and mine varies +/-.03Ω. You may end up changing the temperature when changing coils because you will never have the exact same coil (i.e. different amount of cotton, different coil spacing, different leg length, etc.). I assume you use a spaced coil? If not, I highly recommend it. Also, though I'm sure there are differing opinions, I NEVER dry burn my coils (not really necessary with spaced coils). Some experts say super heating the coils causes the metal composition to change and the chromium in SS changes to hexavalent chromium. If you dry fire, you may want to call Erin Brockovich.

I haven't played around with TFR yet, so maybe this won't help, but the TCR for SS316L is 88, not 92. The wattage setting just tells the mod what wattage to use to get to the temp setting; too low and it will struggle to get to the temp (could be your problem), too high and it will get there too fast (one of my initial problems). The ramp up/pre-heat settings have nothing to do with TC; that's for power mode.

I finally ended up at settings of: ~.6Ω, TCR 88, 15W, 380ºF-410ºF and it's the best vaping experience I've had in the 3+ years I've been vaping.

p.s. As I said, I'm new to TC, so I'm not claiming to be an expert, just letting you know what I've learned and what I found works for me.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write a detailed response. I searched on Google and most of the places listed the TCR of ss316l as 92. There were so many different answers but 92 seemed like most common. I don't understand why there's not a single answer.
I dry fire the coil because I'm concerned about any oil etc on the wire that could create fumes while vaping. Maybe I shouldn't be?
Also, yes I build spaced coils. Getting higher than 0.4ohm on my current coil is difficult with 26g wire because it's small. I'm gonna try getting higher ohms on a proper RTA.
I'm gonna look up Ammit

 

[Bundy1971]

I use 28g SS316L, 5 wraps, 3mm ID. I've never built on the CLR, but did try on the Triton RBA. Yeah...they're really small and not even close to what you are able to do on an RTA. I chose the Ammit for what I already said and the fact that it's single coil.

The main reason to dry fire a coil is to make sure there there are no hot spots and to make sure it's heating properly (inside out), but that's for contact coils. You don't need to worry about that with spaced coils in my experience. I do dry fire when I build contact coils, but I only use those for power mode, not TC.

As far as oil and stuff on the coil, it's better to just clean it by using distilled water on a paper towel and wiping it down until there is no more residue coming off of it.

I'm not sure why the TCR recommendations change, but I've seen anywhere from 79-92, with 88 being the current go-to and what works best for me. Maybe firmware revisions and/or more advanced testing have something to do with it?

 

[Bundy1971]

Also, Steam Engine is a great resource for pretty much everything when it comes to coils, TC, etc. Can be a bit overwhelming at first, but you'll understand it all after playing with it for a while.

 

[Mohid]

I use 28g SS316L, 5 wraps, 3mm ID. I've never built on the CLR, but did try on the Triton RBA. Yeah...they're really small and not even close to what you are able to do on an RTA. I chose the Ammit for what I already said and the fact that it's single coil.

The main reason to dry fire a coil is to make sure there there are no hot spots and to make sure it's heating properly (inside out), but that's for contact coils. You don't need to worry about that with spaced coils in my experience. I do dry fire when I build contact coils, but I only use those for power mode, not TC.

As far as oil and stuff on the coil, it's better to just clean it by using distilled water on a paper towel and wiping it down until there is no more residue coming off of it.

I'm not sure why the TCR recommendations change, but I've seen anywhere from 79-92, with 88 being the current go-to and what works best for me. Maybe firmware revisions and/or more advanced testing have something to do with it?

I just got the Ammit yesterday and built a 0.61ohm SS316L coil. Had to wick it 4 times before getting it somewhat correct. I'd like your comments on the following points if you don't mind?
1) the very first thing was that I couldn't tighten the screws to trap the wire. One was partly fine but the other would just stop at a point and wouldn't tighten. Examining them showed that the tips of the screws were not very good. I don't know how to put it in words. Maybe I'll show it to you if you want. Anyways, I switched the screws with one another and then it worked perfectly.
2) When I fully close the bottom deck, the juice flow is closed and opening a little if tightened more. I at first tried to keep it there to vape but got dry hits (then the first rewick) and then I realized I had to keep the deck loose and screw it back to let the juice flow be open. Isn't it supposed to have the flow open on fully tight and only loose when flow is to be closed?
3) after the second and the third wicking, I was filling the tank (with juice flow open and air flow closed) and it leaked all the juice down the air flow. Bad wicking again?
4) the fourth time I didn't take the risk of not properly filling it (earlier I was trusting the youtubers). So I just close the flow, fill, put the cap partly on, turn it upside down, let the juice slide down (80% vg), open the flow, turn it back down side down and tighten the top cap. Bottom filling is so much easier. Any comments on this? BTW it hasn't leaked after that but let's see.
5) the reason I got it, TC, the behavior now is consistent but I still don't get above 300F at 30W 0.6ohm 26g SS316L in TFR mode of Arcticfox. Is it supposed to be like that or there's something with my settings? I'm getting a good vape but I'm only concerned the temp might miss the mark and it might be actually higher than it shows and I didn't want formaldehyde in my lungs. I didn't risk trying higher wattage for the fear of dry hits.

 

[Bundy1971]

I just got the Ammit yesterday and built a 0.61ohm SS316L coil. Had to wick it 4 times before getting it somewhat correct. I'd like your comments on the following points if you don't mind?
1) the very first thing was that I couldn't tighten the screws to trap the wire. One was partly fine but the other would just stop at a point and wouldn't tighten. Examining them showed that the tips of the screws were not very good. I don't know how to put it in words. Maybe I'll show it to you if you want. Anyways, I switched the screws with one another and then it worked perfectly.
2) When I fully close the bottom deck, the juice flow is closed and opening a little if tightened more. I at first tried to keep it there to vape but got dry hits (then the first rewick) and then I realized I had to keep the deck loose and screw it back to let the juice flow be open. Isn't it supposed to have the flow open on fully tight and only loose when flow is to be closed?
3) after the second and the third wicking, I was filling the tank (with juice flow open and air flow closed) and it leaked all the juice down the air flow. Bad wicking again?
4) the fourth time I didn't take the risk of not properly filling it (earlier I was trusting the youtubers). So I just close the flow, fill, put the cap partly on, turn it upside down, let the juice slide down (80% vg), open the flow, turn it back down side down and tighten the top cap. Bottom filling is so much easier. Any comments on this? BTW it hasn't leaked after that but let's see.
5) the reason I got it, TC, the behavior now is consistent but I still don't get above 300F at 30W 0.6ohm 26g SS316L in TFR mode of Arcticfox. Is it supposed to be like that or there's something with my settings? I'm getting a good vape but I'm only concerned the temp might miss the mark and it might be actually higher than it shows and I didn't want formaldehyde in my lungs. I didn't risk trying higher wattage for the fear of dry hits.

I'll try my best to answer:

1) Never really had a problem with mine making contact and keeping coils secure, but if changing the screw worked, you probably had a bad screw (or maybe you just have a screw loose? ).

2) I have 2 Ammits. On one, the juice flow works really smooth; meaning when the tank is fully tightened, the juice flow is easy to open and close by turning clockwise (tightening direction). On the other, which is brand new, I have to really turn it hard to operate the juice flow. I don't like putting that much pressure on the 510 threading, so I really hope it becomes easier as it "breaks in." I do remember the first one being a bit tight at first as well.

Either way, I would never open the juice flow by unscrewing the bottom deck. Even if it didn't leak, I could see problems with maintaining a good vacuum inside the tank. Just keep tightening and it will open, but you don't want to put too much pressure on your mod so be careful!

3) You HAVE TO close the juice flow when filling or it will leak even, if you use a sock as a wick. I never close the airflow to fill it, but when I used to forget to close the juice flow, guaranteed leaking. I've never really had leaking from bad wicking—it seems pretty forgiving or I'm just a natural!

4) I haven't used a bottom fill tank in LONG time, but I've never thought it was easier. Sounds like you may be overthinking it a bit. Close the juice flow; unscrew the top; fill it all the way; put the cap back on fully, open the juice flow. There's really nothing more to it than that! I've never had to turn mine over to get the liquid to slide down, even with Max VG.

Also, you didn't mention it, but I assume you prime the wick when rewicking, right? Meaning you fully saturate the cotton and make sure none of the cotton is covering or inside any of the air flow holes, right?

5) If I'm reading that right, you're saying it only gets to 300ºF before temp protect mode kicks in? I assume you have the temp set to higher than 300ºF but never get there?

First thing I'd say is 30W is way too high. Try backing that down to 15-20W. I have mine set up like this: