Having trouble keeping a carto with 6 punches soaked

[dwitsmojo86]

Hello,
I primarily used RBA's for a few months and have been moving back to cartomizers for the simplicity of them. I use ikenvape platinums usually as I prefer their taste the most, however I have this problem with boges and smoktechs as well. I use 50VG/50PG RWhy4 12-18mg DIY eliquid and generally vape around 8 watts or so. I have noticed that I have to top off cartomizers very often throughout the day even when using tanks for them. I have started using 6 punches total to try to counter this. I will do a parallel track of 3 on each side. One as close as possible to the threads using a saddle valve, the next right below the cartomizer filler at the top, and one in the middle of these. To me this seems excessive. I notice that I don't pull very hard when I take a drag also. I see 3 possible fixes for this and was wondering if there was a tip or trick i was overlooking. I could either use more PG when making the DIY, increase vaccuum by taking harder drags, or reducing nicotine content to trick myself into taking larger pulls.
Throughout the day I will have to remove the tank from the battery and prime it even with 6 holes. I usually drip into the drip tip directly or blow through the connector and suck through the mouthpiece or even a combination of all of these if one method is not enough. However this sometimes can occur multiple times a day and is getting annoying to do. I don't own a tool to slot cartomizer's and would rather punch them. Is this happening to anyone else? Is there something I am overlooking or will I have to absolutely take harder pulls, drop nicotine content, or use more PG?

 

[Pocha]

Hmm. I've only been using tanked cartos for a couple months but I've never had to prime them after the first time...they wick fine for me and I've also used all brands from single holes to slotted. Never had flooding either, for that matter. I vape 50/50 juice almost exclusively too. Could it be a problem with the tank vacuum pressure? I use IBTanked and Smok Pyrex tanks.

 

[dwitsmojo86]

Now that you mention it, I am noticing this only occurs on specific tanks. I am currently using an AGR and notice it on my cheaper smok non pyrex tanks too. I bought them a while ago so that may be the issue as on my billet box it doesn't seem to happen. Thank you for the thought.

 

[Pocha]

Good luck!

 

[UncleChuck]

This is a bit counter-intuitive, but in my carto-tank days I found that too many holes actually hurts feeding ability, as does too large/deep holes.

I had experienced the same issue of trying to get better feeding, continually making holes greater in number and size, only to still have issues with the carto drying out. Switching back to smaller/fewer holes helped, but ultimately slotting cartos instead of punching them worked the best.

I have a few theories on why this is the case based on my own experience, but feel free to draw your own conclusions.

On the size/depth of the hole issue, I've found that when making larger and deeper holes juice doesn't feed as well. I suspect that when using a dull punch, or simply when punching too large/deep, the filler material gets compressed to the point where it no longer allows juice to easily flow into the carto. I've had limited success "repairing" cartos like this by taking a push-pin and messing with the filler material accessible through the punch hole. After loosening the filler up a bit it would usually feed better.

I eventually switched exclusively to slotting cartos as doing so doesn't compress the filler material at all like punching does. With slotted cartos, after figuring out the proper size slot for the juice, I had a 100% feeding-issue free cartotank experience from then on.

Aside from the compressed filler causing feeding problems, I also suspect having too many holes can cause problems by messing with the air pressure "system"

A carto-tank is supposed to be 100% sealed, and the only area where juice and air can move in/out of the tank is through the holes into the carto. When you take a puff, you create a vacuum that draws juice into the carto, and then air from inside the carto bubbles out into the tank to replace the volume of juice that was transferred to the carto.

The bubbles go into the tank when the pressure "rebounds" after taking a puff, since there was negative pressure being pulled on the tank. When that pressure stops the inside of the tank sucks back, and pulls some air inside from the carto.

If no air is drawn back into the tank, then no juice can feed into the carto. So how would having more holes stop air from getting into the tank? Because of the surface tension of the air bubble. If you have a single, small hole, when that "rebound pressure" takes effect it's entirely focused on that small hole, which easily allows it to break the surface tension and release a bubble into the tank.

When you have a much larger surface area, meaning more/larger punch holes, that "rebound pressure" is spread over a larger area, which means it's less capable of overcoming the surface tension and sucking air back into the tank. It's also possible a slot is a better shape than a circle at allowing the surface tension to be overcome and releasing air bubbles into the tank.

That's just something that popped into my head one day when considering cartotank feeding, seems to make logical sense to me but I guess you never know. But the first point about compressed filler material is very real and provable, and if you are having issues with your cartotanks not feeding well I'd really suggest slotting your cartos instead of punching them. Or buying the laser-cut ones.

 

[dwitsmojo86]

Thank You very much for the in-depth explanation, especially on air being sucked back into the carto. I found some sand paper and sharpened my punch as well. I see Ikenvape has a new slotted carto and I will experiment with those next time I purchase them if the issue doesn't get resolved with sharpening the punch and more strategically placed and fewer air holes. Thanks again.

This is a bit counter-intuitive, but in my carto-tank days I found that too many holes actually hurts feeding ability, as does too large/deep holes.

I had experienced the same issue of trying to get better feeding, continually making holes greater in number and size, only to still have issues with the carto drying out. Switching back to smaller/fewer holes helped, but ultimately slotting cartos instead of punching them worked the best.

I have a few theories on why this is the case based on my own experience, but feel free to draw your own conclusions.

On the size/depth of the hole issue, I've found that when making larger and deeper holes juice doesn't feed as well. I suspect that when using a dull punch, or simply when punching too large/deep, the filler material gets compressed to the point where it no longer allows juice to easily flow into the carto. I've had limited success "repairing" cartos like this by taking a push-pin and messing with the filler material accessible through the punch hole. After loosening the filler up a bit it would usually feed better.

I eventually switched exclusively to slotting cartos as doing so doesn't compress the filler material at all like punching does. With slotted cartos, after figuring out the proper size slot for the juice, I had a 100% feeding-issue free cartotank experience from then on.

Aside from the compressed filler causing feeding problems, I also suspect having too many holes can cause problems by messing with the air pressure "system"

A carto-tank is supposed to be 100% sealed, and the only area where juice and air can move in/out of the tank is through the holes into the carto. When you take a puff, you create a vacuum that draws juice into the carto, and then air from inside the carto bubbles out into the tank to replace the volume of juice that was transferred to the carto.

The bubbles go into the tank when the pressure "rebounds" after taking a puff, since there was negative pressure being pulled on the tank. When that pressure stops the inside of the tank sucks back, and pulls some air inside from the carto.

If no air is drawn back into the tank, then no juice can feed into the carto. So how would having more holes stop air from getting into the tank? Because of the surface tension of the air bubble. If you have a single, small hole, when that "rebound pressure" takes effect it's entirely focused on that small hole, which easily allows it to break the surface tension and release a bubble into the tank.

When you have a much larger surface area, meaning more/larger punch holes, that "rebound pressure" is spread over a larger area, which means it's less capable of overcoming the surface tension and sucking air back into the tank. It's also possible a slot is a better shape than a circle at allowing the surface tension to be overcome and releasing air bubbles into the tank.

That's just something that popped into my head one day when considering cartotank feeding, seems to make logical sense to me but I guess you never know. But the first point about compressed filler material is very real and provable, and if you are having issues with your cartotanks not feeding well I'd really suggest slotting your cartos instead of punching them. Or buying the laser-cut ones.

 

[BernieVideo]

I have never had a carto in a tank vape dry. If primed properly, and the tank has a good seal, this should not happen.

Since your problem happens only with certain tanks and not the others, I think you have a problem with not having a tight seal in those tanks.
Have you inspected the o-rings on those tanks? If they are worn, cracked, or cut, your seal will not be good enough to wick properly. Replace those orings.

Do some of those tanks have filling screws? Maybe they are not sealed well either.

As for adding more holes, your description of punching a hole at the top of the carto seems problematic. It sounds like you are doing this above the filler material. That wont help your situation at all, and is worse than useless, it will steal negative pressure that would have been drawing liquid into the wick.

My only other thought is that you are not priming your cartos correctly.

Good luck figuring this out.

 

[Baditude]

I usually drip into the drip tip directly ...

Did you really mean this? Dripping into the drip tip directly put's juice into the center air hole and should cause flooding and gurgling.

I've never had trouble with a 50/50 pg/vg wicking with two laser-drilled cartos. As UncleChuck and BernieVideo said, having so many holes as you put into the carto is counter-productive. You'll be sucking air from the tank into the carto instead of juice. You should never have any holes punched higher than the mid portion of the carto.

Are you priming your cartos properly prior to putting them into the tank? BADITUDE'S CARTOTANK SETUP GUIDE

I suspect your issues are with the types of tanks you're using. Tanks that use a fill hole can have inner pressure issues. Cartotanks depend upon negative pressure in order to wick properly, as Uncle & Bernie pointed out. If the tank is not completely sealed to keep negative pressure, you'll have wicking issues.

I'm afraid I don't have any solutions for you other than to get another type of tank. Avoid another tank with a juice fill hole. Avoid any tank under $20, which may have poor seals. I suggest a higher quality cartotank like an IBTanked, Salt & Pepper Tank, or a Phiniac.

 

[dwitsmojo86]

Thank you all for your recommendations. It looks like I will have to invest in another tank or 2 as well.