HeartlandVapes - Black Bottles - Good for storage?

[UncLeJunkLe]

What you do all you seasoned DIYers think about freezing/storing PG nic base in those #2 HDPE black plastic bottles heartlandvapes ships their nic in? Ive read that it doesn't matter, but some believe amber or blue glass is a must.

I'm just now getting into DIY.

 

[Blitzdonlife]

Paging @Rossum
From what I've read about it, glass is less permeable to oxygen exchange so your nicotine should have a longer shelf life if frozen in glass. Rossums done a bunch of experiments with nicotine frozen, in glass, plastic, etc. If you look at his blog, I think it's in there.

 

[Blitzdonlife]

Sorry, not a blog. Here's the thread I was looking for.
Nic Base Storage: Freezer vs. Room Temp Experiment

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

...

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Yes, I read finished reading that thread 2 days ago, was hoping to get other's insights on their experiences, too.

In one post in that thread, rossum believes that the clear glass reduced oxidation greatly when compared to semi-transparent PET bottles, but not sure if HDPE #2 black opaque plastic would change that to even a small degree.

So have the room temperature ones darkened more since then? Yes, I think so, particularly the ones in PET plastic rather than glass, but the change over the last 20 months hasn't been as dramatic as the change over the first 12.

I can't afford to buy even so much as a bottle right now. Just received 1.12ml 2 days ago and will be receiving another 6 liters soon. All 100mg PG (which after reading that thread PG may not have been the right choice for long term storage (years), according to a PhD in chemistry Rossum quoted.

I started out buying nic in PG because it's easier to work with. But then I read some of Dr. Kurts older posts on storage. He posited that VG was better long-term in the freezer because it's so viscous at those temperatures that it would reduce the mobility of the nicotine molecules and thus oxidize more slowly. Since he's a PhD chemist, I figured he should know what he's talking about and then I started buying nic in VG. So my stash is also about half and half.

Someone having a PhD doesn't mean much to me (someone has to finish last every semester), but it could mean something so it's worth digging deeper.

But oh well, the deed is done now. I can't afford to buy anymore nic or anything else and by the time I will be able to it will be banned or taxed heavily, no doubt.

I guess the goal is to get it in glass ASAP. My plan for now is to just keep the nic in the black plastic bottles wrapped heavily in many plastic bags, and then work on transferring them to glass bottles ASAP by no later than the end of 2020, hopefully sooner, though. I know bottles aren't THAT expensive, but they are for me right now.

 

[Blitzdonlife]

Yes, I read finished reading that thread 2 days ago, was hoping to get other's insights on their experiences, too.

In one post in that thread, rossum believes that the clear glass reduced oxidation greatly when compared to semi-transparent PET bottles, but not sure if HDPE #2 black opaque plastic would change that to even a small degree.



I can't afford to buy even so much as a bottle right now. Just received 1.12ml 2 days ago and will be receiving another 6 liters soon. All 100mg PG (which after reading that thread PG may not have been the right choice for long term storage (years), according to a PhD in chemistry Rossum quoted.



Someone having a PhD doesn't mean much to me (someone has to finish last every semester), but it could mean something so it's worth digging deeper.

But oh well, the deed is done now. I can't afford to buy anymore nic or anything else and by the time I will be able to it will be banned or taxed heavily, no doubt.

I guess the goal is to get it in glass ASAP. My plan for now is to just keep the nic in the black plastic bottles wrapped heavily in many plastic bags, and then work on transferring them to glass bottles ASAP by no later than the end of 2020, hopefully sooner, though. I know bottles aren't THAT expensive, but they are for me right now.

You've got a good plan. I didn't know you had read that thread, there is some good info there. Freezing it is probably the most important thing, not sure how PET does in the long-term. Shutting up now.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Naw, no need to shut up. How would you know if I saw/read that thread? It's a good thread, but with all long threads, it's hard to get info from in a hurry. That's the downside to forum formats.

I still figured I asked the question because black HDPE is probably different than semi-transparent PTE in terms of storage and leaching. But by how much and is it better...or worse? Who knows? lol

 

[Rossum]

Glass is impermeable to oxygen. Plastics are not. PET is the least permeable plastic in common use, and HDPE is roughly 50 times more permeable to oxygen than PET.

My advice: If you can't afford glass right now, put 'em in the freezer as-is and re-bottle later. But don't put it off longer than you have to.

Color of glass does not matter. The walls of our freezer are more than adequate to keep light away from your nic while it's in there. If I were re-bottling nic base today, I would actually prefer clear glass over colored because it would allow me to inspect the nic for color changes.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

and HDPE is roughly 50 times more permeable to oxygen than PET.

Not what I wanted to hear lol. But needed to hear it all the same.

If I were re-bottling nic base today, I would actually prefer clear glass over colored because it would allow me to inspect the nic for color changes.

Thanks, I agree with that. I was thinking about that when I got my nic in the black plastic bottles the other day, that I would have liked to be able to see what it looks like without opening the bottle and pouring some out. Will go with clear bottle, definitely.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

@Rossum , can you give me your source for clear glass bottles with caps?

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Hmmm, I was just thinking. I have a friend who told me a few months ago he has a pack of Ball jars he never used and would give them to me anytime I wanted them. Not keen on the metal Ball lids for nic base, but ball makes plastic lids, too.

Not sure if it would be cheaper for the time being to use the Ball jars and buy the plastic lids for them or to wait and buy the proper bottles.

 

[Rossum]

@Rossum , can you give me your source for clear glass bottles with caps?

Glass Bottle Outlet or Amazon.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Thanks, looks like GBO doesn't carry clear bottles any bigger than 4 oz. Would prefer 8 oz. Will have to look elsewhere.

 

[NolaMel]

Thanks, looks like GBO doesn't carry clear bottles any bigger than 4 oz. Would prefer 8 oz. Will have to look elsewhere.

I had an accidental nic experiment. I found a bottle (Heartland plastic) that I had stuck in the freezer and missed when I was pulling them out to put in glass bottles. After a little more than a year, it was still crystal clear. I don’t recommend pushing it like I did, but for several months till you can get proper bottles would probably be be fine. You’re likely not going to be able to replace/buy more nic in the future, so best to store it in the way that increases its chance of being useable down the road.

 

[Rossum]

Thanks, looks like GBO doesn't carry clear bottles any bigger than 4 oz. Would prefer 8 oz. Will have to look elsewhere.

Try here:
8oz (240ml) Flint (Clear) Boston Round Glass Bottle - 24-400 Neck

 

[DaveP]

Glass is harder and purer than plastics, and less susceptible to anything that might compromise a plastic container (heat, chemicals, etc). Glass is my only choice for long term nic storage.

Which reminds me. I need to split up my third and recently purchased liter of 100mg and get it into bottles. For me, a liter is good for nine years at 3mg strength vaping 8ml juice a day. That makes 27 years of nic in the freezer. Overkill, but satisfying to know it's there after all the recent hoopla over vaping.

 

[Iron Molly]

Hmmm, I was just thinking. I have a friend who told me a few months ago he has a pack of Ball jars he never used and would give them to me anytime I wanted them. Not keen on the metal Ball lids for nic base, but ball makes plastic lids, too.

Not sure if it would be cheaper for the time being to use the Ball jars and buy the plastic lids for them or to wait and buy the proper bottles.

I use glass ball jars with plastic lids. The lids are very cheap at Walmart. I also use some silicone tape around the threads to make sure it's sealed tight. The only drawback I see is that the top of the jar is wider so more oxygen in contact with the nic. I topped mine off with argon to hopefully mitigate that. I also put them in brown paper lunch bags to eliminate any light. Money is tight, I have boxes and boxes of canning jars, so that's what I'm using.