Heavy Smoker, Need Satisfaction

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PickledRick

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Jul 10, 2018
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I've smoked for 33 years, a pack and a half for the last 25. Camels, then Camel wides. Bought a smok Alien 220. I like it a lot, but.........the fulfilment ain't there. Got 24 mg nicotine juice, tobacco flavor ( Of course; I'm a Camel man lol ). Still doesn't cut it. 3 weeks now, and I am jonesin for analogs :(
I've vaped until I felt the same sickly nausea the first time I really hit a cig as a teenage idjet. ANY advice from long term smokers who have made the switch to vaping would be greatly appreciated.
 

Jebbn

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Apr 2, 2018
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safe distance from a black hole
Ive been vaping 9months and still have a hankering for a burner. I dont though.
Vaping just took some of the edge off for me. I started vaping and then over a one month period dropped out my ryo cigs until one day I didnt have one.
Ive never seen vaping as a direct replacement for tobacco.
Vaping helps better than most nrp's but you still have to choose not to smoke.
 

uthinkofsomething

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Jun 7, 2015
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Try changing it up a little. Most people end up getting away from tobacco flavors. However, there are some eliquids out there rhat are more tobacco like than others. Juices made from tobacco alkaloids that have more of the tobacco "chemicals" than a standard eliquid. I never got into those, warm custards are my favorites. Think about getting a 2nd tank, something similar to what you have if you are mostly happy with that. Use a different flavor in 2nd tank and switch back and forth when you get tired of a flavor.
 

SunnyHours

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Dec 8, 2012
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Yeah the plan is to want to stop smoking too. And switching all in one go just makes it harder for you to switch. Kinda like stopping Cold Turkey, it usually ends up with the person going back to cigs...

What you should of done is used your vape until you can't take it anymore and then grab a smoke. And normally, over time, you should reduce your number of daily cigarettes until you use one every second day and then you can either quit smoking right away or keep spacing out your cigarettes even more and then say goodbye to tobacco!
Anyways, I wish you good luck in your quest for the ideal vape for you!

Also, as a suggestion, maybe give the WTA Liquids a try? It stands for Whole Tobacco Alkaloids which in theory should be much more similar to a cigarette. But, when vaping, it'll never Truly be like a real cigarette because the Combustion accounts for a big part of the effects and since you aren't combusting anything, those effects won't ever be there with a vaporizer...
But try the WTA, you might find what you're looking for there...
Cheers Buddy!

Sent from my LG-H915 using Tapatalk
 

Letitia

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Apr 2, 2017
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I've smoked for 33 years, a pack and a half for the last 25. Camels, then Camel wides. Bought a SMOK Alien 220. I like it a lot, but.........the fulfilment ain't there. Got 24 mg nicotine juice, tobacco flavor ( Of course; I'm a Camel man lol ). Still doesn't cut it. 3 weeks now, and I am jonesin for analogs :(
I've vaped until I felt the same sickly nausea the first time I really hit a cig as a teenage idjet. ANY advice from long term smokers who have made the switch to vaping would be greatly appreciated.
Hello and welcome. What tank are you using and are you vaping as needed or restricted as to how often you can vape?
 

DeloresRose

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Apr 25, 2014
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My story is very similar to yours. 35 years of 1.5-2 pad, Camel wides.

I’d tried to quit many times over the years with all the cessation products and failed.

I started vaping at 24 mgs with no intention to quit, just to get a nic fix when I couldn’t smoke.

I was advised to vape heavy when craving, and wait 15 minutes at least before I went ahead and had a cigarette.

That method worked for me. I was completely smoke free in days. For four years. I got down to 3 mgs.

I fell off the wagon last winter, so I upped my nic and I’m quitting again with the same method and new gear.

Honestly, I didn’t struggle so much the first tome as I am now, and it’s still nowhere near as tough as quitting without vaping. You’ll find some method that works for you, I’m sure.
Good luck.
 

CMD-Ky

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Sep 15, 2013
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Some people like WTA (Whole Tobacco Alkaloids), you might try:

WTA, the difference

I've smoked for 33 years, a pack and a half for the last 25. Camels, then Camel wides. Bought a SMOK Alien 220. I like it a lot, but.........the fulfilment ain't there. Got 24 mg nicotine juice, tobacco flavor ( Of course; I'm a Camel man lol ). Still doesn't cut it. 3 weeks now, and I am jonesin for analogs :(
I've vaped until I felt the same sickly nausea the first time I really hit a cig as a teenage idjet. ANY advice from long term smokers who have made the switch to vaping would be greatly appreciated.
 

untar

Vaping Master
Feb 7, 2018
3,406
17,583
Germany
I've smoked for 33 years
3 weeks now, and I am jonesin for analogs :(
While vaping is a bit similar to smoking it's not exactly the same, some compounds aside from nicotine are missing and your inner tobacco pig is screaming. Changing a habit isn't easy, your brain will try to fall back on old patterns multiple times, but it's a lot easier than replacing it with nothing.

I'm vaping for almost 5 years now and sometimes I still dream about smoking...
In my day to day life I'm not missing it though and don't have cravings for tobacco.
 

The Rebel

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Yeah, I was in the same boat. After many hours of research I found Dvap's blog (DVap's blog | E-Cigarette Forum) which really explained a lot. Some people, through smoking, develop quite the attachment to tobacco alkaloids which aren't present in most vape juices. For those people, like me, vaping helps but doesn't completely fill the void. I could cut back quite a bit but never truly kick the habit. WTA juice has those alkaloids that you may be missing in your vape. For me, I found snus, specifically Swedish snus had all the alkaloids I needed and was missing. After I incorporated snus into my daily rotation kicking those last couple smokes was easy. So that is another option for you if the WTA juice doesn't work. Good luck!
 

Str8vision

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Dec 26, 2013
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Someone who loves the taste of tobacco, I smoked between 2 and 3 PAD for nearly half a century and was a heavy pipe smoker toward the end. I never intended to quit smoking, it wasn't even a goal. A young colleague introduced me to vaping NETs (Naturally Extracted Tobaccos) and I really enjoyed it so decided to add vaping to my daily routine. Once I geared up and began vaping NETs I just stopped smoking. A month into vaping I tried to smoke a bowl of my favorite pipe tobacco but it tasted absolutely terrible, never went back after that. I didn't quit tobacco, I just stopped smoking it.
 

JanTee

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Jul 28, 2014
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Saint-Lazare, Quebec, Canada
First of all welcome and congrats! Three weeks is amazing! Great job! You are very brave and determined, as is everyone who worked hard to learn to like and regularity suck on those bitter, stinky, nasty coffin nails. You can do this! I have some suggestions for you so that you don't suffer nearly so much. Ymmv, this is based on my background and experience, I have vaped a long time and over the years helped many people to successfully and with relative ease switch to vaping. So take from my thoughts what feels right to you, I am sorry this may be a long post, I want to help.

Addiction is a complex and complicated thing, and is unique to each person. You have been addicted to cigarettes, specifically to camel cigarettes for years to meet your body's requirements for nicotine.

It is often said there are two kinds of cigarettes for smokers. The nicotine replacement cigarettes when the body is screaming for nicotine. The other kind of cigarette is the emotional cigarette. That is the reward type cigarette- the I just wash the car or did xyz, I would like to enjoy myself and have a coffee And a smoke, or I just had a fight with my spouse or my kids are driving my bonkers and I need peace and quiet argh stress cigarettes. These tricky emotional cigs are why over time we smoke more as we increase our dependence on nicotine.

Now add to this the well designed concoction of synergistic chemicals somewhere between 4000 and 9000 by some estimates designed to increase our reliance on the almighty cancer stick. Not only that but to make our brain loyal to THAT particular cigarette. Evil big tobacco knows this...it makes my blood boil. They know the average age of first cigarette is THIRTEEN, when we are young and dumb and they know the majority of children get their first cigarettes FROM THEIR PARENTS, and they design these cigarettes to be highly addictive and quickly so even if they are young and can only get a cigarette (or a .... ewwwww!) on occasion they are tricked into thinking that they can handle it, and they smoke more and more as they become more available in high school or whatever. They also know you are unlikely to change brands after age 25. You are a "camels man". Any of this resonate with you? Does it make you mad, Mad, MAD to be a manipulated statistic and hooked on a drug delivery device that they knew in the 1950's, before you ever started smoking has a 50% chance of killing you a horrible, painful, unnatural, early often painful and dignity stealing death and a 100% chance of lowering your quality of life. Your sense of taste, smell, your ability to have energy and stamina, your sex drive and performance, social stigma, missing out because you need a smoke break, emotional ups and downs because you did not get your smoke break, your skin, your finances to name a few. I don't say this to make you feel guilty. Drop that crap. Chances are you were a child
 

ruet

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Apr 20, 2011
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Find a vendor who offers 36mg freebase nic concentrations. If that doesn't work you may want to look at nic salts which go much higher than 36mg or liquids that contain whole tobacco alkaloids.

This juice was an all-day-vape for me at 36mg until they closed their local shop.

Holy Grail
 

hell_storm2004

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ECF Veteran
Jun 17, 2013
318
555
Richardson, Texas, USA
All I can say is Rome wasn't built in a day. Keep at it, its mostly getting used to the vape instead of a cigg. And try other flavors too. Same tobacco stuff might just get a little boring. And maybe nic salts might help. I took me some years to completely go blank. As i was doing both for a few years.
 

JanTee

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 28, 2014
140
374
Saint-Lazare, Quebec, Canada
Sorry my iPad is buggy! Told you it would be long but I want to give you perspective and empowerment. Point is, you were an innocent child taken advantage of and manipulated by a ruthless industry, NOT an idiot or the mature man you are now. It should make you very angry that you identify with Joe Camel!

Smokers understand smokers, our governments, anti tobacco lobbies, and medical people have failed us.

So, of first importance is to meet the need for your nicotine cigarettes. Nicotine is not the enemy, for most people it is of benefit. First, have you been taught how to inhale for maximum absorption of nicotine and if you want that cigarette throats hit, do you know how to get it? With the new devices and good technique 24 mg tends to be too high for many people. Also, it's not so much about how much, how long or what you smoked as much as it is about our individual tolerance and metabolism. The trick is to keep serum nic levels up, and to use what you need be it 3 mg or 60 mg. I'll expand on this in a bit, hang on.

Next,there seems to be this unfortunate divide between the mouth to lung vapers and the direct lung set. Over the years I have learned to use and enjoy both styles, and the past 5 years or so the gap between the advantages and disadvanges of each style has narrowed. Most smokers but certainly not all smoked mtl. I recommend starting out with the style that you smoked most often. But the draw is longer, slower and more gentle. Often because the lungs are just so full of gunk a deep lung hit is not possible, and as you are vaping s 24mg juice I will assume you either have a throat of steel or are doing mtl. I will guess as well based on what you said you are a flavour man.

Now, again in my experience with converting smokers to the vape side I prefer to set them up for success. It is pretty much accepted that most folks who successfully quit smoking long term do it cold turkey. I believe this is because of detox from the cigarettes, it can be intense without tools and support many people break down and smoke again. I have suggestions for symptoms, but I aim to have folks make a successful switch and smoke their last cigarette as soon as possible to get the body healing so they can feel how much better they feel.

Now where I live we have these stupid laws. Folks can go into a vape shop, try devices or juices or even be told that this is by far and large the most successful and easy way to quit smoking. Even to quit nicotine and vaping should they wish. So, I have a variety of equipment and juice at my home and I often welcome in complete strangers so they can learn and try things to find what may work best for them.

Now, research shows that quitting smoking has the best success with preparation. So, depending on the person, I usually have them order devices online, if they like a juice not available in our local shop I have them order it. While they are waiting, I have them change their smoking habit. I tell them not to try to quit or cut back at all. But to change their cigarette brand to the competition. So, you smoking camels might try Marlboro or whatever is available. Apples to apples though...if you are smoking regular filter buy regular filter just an unfamiliar brand. I am not for one instant telling you to pick up smokes after three weeks of detox what I am trying to say that if you have those camels around as a safety net, chuck them and buy something that doesn't taste familiar to your brain.

Next, I tell people to change their smoking location. If they smokedin the house, go outside. Clean the house or hire someone while they wait on their package. Wash the curtains, rugs, blinds, sheets, fan blades, light fixtures. Plain vinegar instead of fabric softener in the wash for a while. Vinegar also works great to get smoke goo off mirrors and windows. Tsp on the walls. Buy a product like zeolite or air sponge and work on getting the nasty smoke smell out because it will at then least bother them and at the worst make them romanticize the smokes. Don't forget about the car!

Now if an outside smoker, change location. Back porch instead of front. Or buy a cute new patio set and put it on the other side of the deck. Be nice to yourself, this is the single best thing ever you have done for YOU ever, and it will improve your life immeasurably and in turn the lives of your loved ones. You have kids? Remember when you had your first cigarette and how you got them. This is how we lower the smoking rate despite the efforts of big tobacco and the sheer incompetence of government, lobbyists and health care people.

Next, I tell them smoke as much as you wish. BUT, very important journal your smokes. Get a little pad and pen and rubber band it to your smokes. Go to your new smoking spot and smoke consciously. Ever smoker is a pro. Like driving a car we have practiced and practiced smoking and are unconsciously competent. I want people to not check email, the newspaper, talk on the phone. I want them to notice. How they drag, how it tastes, how it feels, what is going on with their mind, body, emotions. Why they wanted that cigarette. How long they smoke, if they chained how was the second, third cigarette different and why did they want it? Just be honest with themselves, know their habit, understand their needs. Guilt, punishment has no place here. We are now mature adults, hopefully responsible at least MOST of the time. This act of writing, for each and every cigarette they have until whenever they smoke their last is important.

I have them do more writing. I ask them to create two lists. Exhaustive lists. One is everything they love and like about smoking. No judgement, just honesty what sucking on burning leaves does for you, or maybe better said what you perceive it does for you. Think about this, add to it as much as you want. Go back to it if you think of something else. Then put that list away, in a our sock drawer or something for a rainy day. The next list is why they want away from the slavery of big tobacco. This one goes on the fridge, the bathroom mirror, someplace visible and accessible, but private if they wish.

See vaping is NOT smoking. Smoking is low tech, vaping is not. We must accept, especially during the first few months of our quit that we will have bad vape days. Days where our tanks leak, Our coils die, our batteries die, we drop our favourite mod, spill our favourite juice, nothing tastes right, we step on the cats tail and he takes a chunk out of our ankle while running to the phone, have a fight with our spouse, want to pull out our hair crap days from hell. This is life and dammit we WANT a cigarette! Now!

So now, this is what I recommend. When they get their stuff, I tell them to come over to my house again. I show them how to use it, battery safety, coil changing, some tips about trouble shooting. I say if you forget, or have a problem call me any time day or night. You come to me or I will go to you if you are frustrated and we can't sort it over the phone. I love smokers, but I hate cigarettes and I believe that a retiring smokers deserves the best understanding, compassion and support that I can give them. So, when we do the shopping, I always have them commit and set up for success. When we were smokers we always had a spare lighter, we got more smokes before we ran out. If heaven forbid we ran out we ewwwww smoked our buts, if none of our lightares worked, like a true addict we made fire with the toaster, the BBQ, the toaster oven, a blow torch. Some of us drove to the store at questionable times, to questionable places, under questionable circumstances if we just needed a damn cigarette and spent money we did not have.

So I advise people to start with 2 mods. One ideally like your alien. Where they can change their power settings a little up a little down. Ideally at least 75 watts so it grow with them. A popular, solid machine well loved, that appeals to their hand, their Sense of style, their lifestyle. Then a smaller, lower powered stealth device. A second tank for their daily driver, extra coils for each tank and Three juices. I say buy each juice the highest you can get, and buy the same in zero. More nic to start is better. If it's too harsh or they get nic sick we add zero.

About flavours, tobacco I get it. Really I do. I looked all over when I started mistakenly thinking I wanted something to taste like my cigarette. Now I can't stand most tobaccos. I always have folks buy at least one tobacco juice, if they insist they need tobacco as their adv (all day vape) I say ok, np. BUT one of the juices must be something other then tobacco or tobacco blend. Mint menthol tends to be popular even in non menthol smokers. Especially if you had a non smoking spouse or job and brushed your teeth, used mouthwash or gum or mints for your breath. Many established vapers, I believe the majority like fruits. Strawberry and cream, watermelon, lemonades, berry blends tend to be favoured. If the thought of fruit boggles your brain right now perhaps a coffee, or a danish, a creme brûlée, or hot cocoa- traditional warm treats will appeal. The biggest secret I can tell you is flavour is for most of us THE most important thing. So if a juice sounds remotely appealing, is recommended, seems popular with people and or is well reviewed on a site and by a few youtube folks try it. If you get it and it's good but not great breathe it by leaving it open for an afternoon then steep it by putting it in a dark cupboard for a week or two, shake it up a bit when you remember. Try it again and chances are it's great. If still just good but you don't loooooooooove it shelf it. Juice keeps about two years and chance it high your taste will change. There is a reason many of us start with tobacco and end up with something like fruit. If it starts to approach it's expiry date and you still don't love it give it away, it may really help someone else get away from cancer sticks. Point is, find something, anything even if it's bacon and egg flavour juice that you love enough to vape for hours but is totally different from tobacco. At least one like that. You need to have something else for when you get vapour fatigue, have a bad day, whatever. Something else to scratch that funny itch.

Now about that little stealth unit. This is not just your backup it is your cigarette. I actually label them cigarette with a label machine. What I like right now are the suorin drop, it's s bit of a pain to fill and a funny shape but it can work either mtl or dl when folks don't know yet or did lung hits on cigarettes when they were stressed or nic deprived. Just got a joyetech batpack love it, it uses AA batteries, throws off great flavour from what looks like an old school carto tank which is easy to change. We are going camping with the kids, I am thinking woo hoo no need to take tons of mods and charged batteries. Love that, but of course I will take backups and lots of different juices! The other one I recommend is often an ego air or innokin t18. I use an Eleaf I care, it looks a bit like a lighter and is very discrete. Point is, this one is the new cigarette 2.0. We put in that tobacco juice at a higher nic strength. It must be a super yummy, mouthwatering juice. If they want an adv that is tobacco, I recommend they buy like a premium super gourmet juice.. like TriBeCa, bobas bounty, anything from black note. I do not refer people right away to WTAs, nic salts, snus etc etc. Just tobacco flavour, one step up in low power, high resistance device. To be used when they need it. Mtl inhale long and slow. Hold in mouth, inhale to lungsand hold,exhale through nose slowly. Goal is no vapour so we get total absorption, plus we learn how to stealth vape.
That conscious cigarette thing applies here too, at home in their smoking spot or wherever they need if out an about. But it is conscious, because if we meet their nic needs with their main device and juices properly these are those emotional cigarettes. I want to see people learn how to manage their lives like a healthy mature adult not stuff their emotions with a cigarette like a teenager. So I tell them it is totally ok if you need a burning tobacco cigarette. Stop telling yourself I Will
not smoke, I can't smoke, I won't smoke. This is self destructive and drives the powerful sub conscious brain to read I will smoke, I need a smoke, I must smoke now etc etc. Say to yourself at that trigger moment, I will DELAY a cigarette. Vape on your regular device, try changing flavours for about 15 minutes. See how you feel. If you still have an itch grap your cigarette 2.0 and go sit in your smoking spot which is If you are at home outside, clean and comfy no smoking paraphernalia. Do your writing.
 

JanTee

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 28, 2014
140
374
Saint-Lazare, Quebec, Canada
Ok lol third try I'm almost done.

Point is, if you get to needing your "new" cigarette, figure out why. Is it your lunch break at work where you can't vape in the early quit as much as you need so it's a nic fit? Are you angry, tired, hungry, bored, happy and it would be best to put down the device and walk the dog, have a drink or snack, go for a drive for space or is that 5 minutes of peace with the tobacco vape what you need? Do you think you still want a stinky cigarette? Take 10 deep slow super oxygenating breaths to allow your brain a dopamine rush. Still think you want them? Then with no guilt, Go get them from the inconvenient place you put them, your only lighter and ashtray and smoke. No guilt, no failure. You might find you don't really want it, it doesn't taste or feel good, it makes you sick, dizzy etc. No rule against leaving it half finished and putting it back. Next time if there is a next time, start with that half smoked one. Again, this is conscious smoking. Feel it, taste it, vape between drags if you want to drive it home to your stubborn self conscious brain that vaping tastes and feels better. You will find that if you are patient you will naturally quit. It usually hit s folks as quite a surprise when they realize they haven't smoked for a few days or weeks or whatever. If that's not happening for you after about 6 weeks and you have worked on meeting your emotional needs, this is when I say try WTAs or snus. If your daily juice is maxed out at 36 mg and if you are doing mtl for max absorption and going through more then about 4ml a day, and you tried the patch to supplement and that did not work this is when you try nic salts but only in your stealth device. But again, very often the trouble is not nic it's flavour. I don't know why but that is what I have found in many people. I tell people that they should try at least one new flavour a month for every month they vape. Keep it fresh, keep it interesting and keep going. I find flavour changing works well if and when they want to drop nic. So it's good to have s flavour library whenever they get there.

Next thing, your main vape. You need to keep your nic up and vape as much as possible. Vape that larger device and alternate flavours on the sofa, in bed wherever you want as much as you want. Not like having smoke breaks. Don't worry that you are vaping more then you smoked or too much. If you are not nic sick it's not too much. If you find the new cigarette routine is filling a nic need not an emotionally one up your nic to 36. But I will guess your technique is not yet primed to absorb nic and you are trying to vape like you smoked in frequency. If you work and can't vape that stealth device with high nic will scratch the itch.
do not be afraid to use the patch in 21 mg if you have a job and can't vape frequently during the day or are vaping max available freebase nic in your daily mod. The trick is not to use it as they say. If it gets itchy move it. Not just in the same place, on the front of thigh, the buttocks, the belly If you have some extra loveliness. Do not follow the box instruction and step down until you have had no smokes for 6 weeks and step it down slowly, slow, Sloooow.

You will find that you naturally start vaping less the farther you get from your last analogue. I advise not stepping down nic level unless you change to say a dripping atomizer or a dl tank. You can however, if you want to chain vape at night on the sofa or whatever and find you are getting too jittery and unable to sleep add about 1/3 zero juice to your tank to start. Adjust more or less each chain session as you need. For this main device that mindless unconscious competence self nic regulation is what we are after.

Unless they have some kind of medical need, I advise folks not to mess with nic elimination or significant dropping for a solid year. I can't tell you how many times I have heard of people switching to vaping going woo hoo this is great and stepping down to zero nic in a matter of weeks or months and going back to smokes. I fully support the idea that's fresh air is better. We are addicts. We will always be addicted to cigarettes and we must cement in vaping and love it as much as we love cigarettes. Remember that list of what you love about cigarettes? Read it and rewrite it when you are faraway and clear of them. If you want to drop vaping altogether great. But make hella sure if you ever relapse you turn to vaping and NOT smoking! I also support the idea of getting more fresh air by vaping less and actually raising nic. Again, after a solid year of detox, healing, brain rewiring. I suggest if you want to step down after a year, you go one level at a time, and stay at each level for at least one month you smoked for 5 years. Round up not down.

To help your body through cigarette detox faster and easier drink water. I recommend adding some fresh lime juice and a splash of raw apple cider vinegar. Some apple juice or sweetener if you like. Helps hydrate, keep juice tasting great through the tank and flushes stuff out gently. Drink a lot. Start walking for stress management. Go with your spouse, dog, kids or whatever for 20 minutes or so. It's good For body and mind and stimulates your lymph. The opposite of addiction is not being clean. The opposite of addiction is connection. Part of what cigarettes have stolen from you is emotional connection with yourself and others. So grab your vape and if you can a pet, friend, neighbour, loved one and go for a stroll.

Also try at least 20 minute hot bath at night with baking soda and Epsom salts helps flush the goo. Take your fancy detox water with you and try to relax and reward yourself by reflecting on the victories you had today.

If you find you have anxiety about quitting I also find homeopathic Ignatia amara 200c available very cheap on amazon supports a lot of people through rough patches.

Hth and have a great vape day!
 

Myk

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jan 1, 2009
4,889
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IL, USA
Are you dual using? 3 weeks of only ecigs is a long time to still be craving cigarettes. If you're dual using you're keeping the craving going, which is OK, some need to cut down before they can quit all the way, but that's where it's coming from.
Also ash trays, lighters and all those things laying around in sight can keep the cravings going.

If you're exclusively vaping, the only thing I can think of is the tobacco flavor is keeping your memories going.

Both the first and second time around for me ecigs were better than smoking. The first time I got tobacco flavors plus a fruit flavor. Tobacco flavors were really bad back then, I only vaped the strawberry. The second time around I only went with fruit flavors. Later when good tobacco flavors came out I tried them and they were realistic but I had no taste for them.

I used tobacco every way there was. Pipe, cigars, big leaf chew, plug chew, pouches, nasal snuff and snus. I only use snus and snuff occasionally now.
 

englishmick

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Sep 25, 2014
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Sorry my iPad is buggy! Told you it would be long but I want to give you perspective and empowerment. Point is, you were an innocent child taken advantage of and manipulated by a ruthless industry, NOT an idiot or the mature man you are now. It should make you very angry that you identify with Joe Camel!

Smokers understand smokers, our governments, anti tobacco lobbies, and medical people have failed us.

So, of first importance is to meet the need for your nicotine cigarettes. Nicotine is not the enemy, for most people it is of benefit. First, have you been taught how to inhale for maximum absorption of nicotine and if you want that cigarette throats hit, do you know how to get it? With the new devices and good technique 24 mg tends to be too high for many people. Also, it's not so much about how much, how long or what you smoked as much as it is about our individual tolerance and metabolism. The trick is to keep serum nic levels up, and to use what you need be it 3 mg or 60 mg. I'll expand on this in a bit, hang on.

Next,there seems to be this unfortunate divide between the mouth to lung vapers and the direct lung set. Over the years I have learned to use and enjoy both styles, and the past 5 years or so the gap between the advantages and disadvanges of each style has narrowed. Most smokers but certainly not all smoked mtl. I recommend starting out with the style that you smoked most often. But the draw is longer, slower and more gentle. Often because the lungs are just so full of gunk a deep lung hit is not possible, and as you are vaping s 24mg juice I will assume you either have a throat of steel or are doing mtl. I will guess as well based on what you said you are a flavour man.

Now, again in my experience with converting smokers to the vape side I prefer to set them up for success. It is pretty much accepted that most folks who successfully quit smoking long term do it cold turkey. I believe this is because of detox from the cigarettes, it can be intense without tools and support many people break down and smoke again. I have suggestions for symptoms, but I aim to have folks make a successful switch and smoke their last cigarette as soon as possible to get the body healing so they can feel how much better they feel.

Now where I live we have these stupid laws. Folks can go into a vape shop, try devices or juices or even be told that this is by far and large the most successful and easy way to quit smoking. Even to quit nicotine and vaping should they wish. So, I have a variety of equipment and juice at my home and I often welcome in complete strangers so they can learn and try things to find what may work best for them.

Now, research shows that quitting smoking has the best success with preparation. So, depending on the person, I usually have them order devices online, if they like a juice not available in our local shop I have them order it. While they are waiting, I have them change their smoking habit. I tell them not to try to quit or cut back at all. But to change their cigarette brand to the competition. So, you smoking camels might try Marlboro or whatever is available. Apples to apples though...if you are smoking regular filter buy regular filter just an unfamiliar brand. I am not for one instant telling you to pick up smokes after three weeks of detox what I am trying to say that if you have those camels around as a safety net, chuck them and buy something that doesn't taste familiar to your brain.

Next, I tell people to change their smoking location. If they smokedin the house, go outside. Clean the house or hire someone while they wait on their package. Wash the curtains, rugs, blinds, sheets, fan blades, light fixtures. Plain vinegar instead of fabric softener in the wash for a while. Vinegar also works great to get smoke goo off mirrors and windows. Tsp on the walls. Buy a product like zeolite or air sponge and work on getting the nasty smoke smell out because it will at then least bother them and at the worst make them romanticize the smokes. Don't forget about the car!

Now if an outside smoker, change location. Back porch instead of front. Or buy a cute new patio set and put it on the other side of the deck. Be nice to yourself, this is the single best thing ever you have done for YOU ever, and it will improve your life immeasurably and in turn the lives of your loved ones. You have kids? Remember when you had your first cigarette and how you got them. This is how we lower the smoking rate despite the efforts of big tobacco and the sheer incompetence of government, lobbyists and health care people.

Next, I tell them smoke as much as you wish. BUT, very important journal your smokes. Get a little pad and pen and rubber band it to your smokes. Go to your new smoking spot and smoke consciously. Ever smoker is a pro. Like driving a car we have practiced and practiced smoking and are unconsciously competent. I want people to not check email, the newspaper, talk on the phone. I want them to notice. How they drag, how it tastes, how it feels, what is going on with their mind, body, emotions. Why they wanted that cigarette. How long they smoke, if they chained how was the second, third cigarette different and why did they want it? Just be honest with themselves, know their habit, understand their needs. Guilt, punishment has no place here. We are now mature adults, hopefully responsible at least MOST of the time. This act of writing, for each and every cigarette they have until whenever they smoke their last is important.

I have them do more writing. I ask them to create two lists. Exhaustive lists. One is everything they love and like about smoking. No judgement, just honesty what sucking on burning leaves does for you, or maybe better said what you perceive it does for you. Think about this, add to it as much as you want. Go back to it if you think of something else. Then put that list away, in a our sock drawer or something for a rainy day. The next list is why they want away from the slavery of big tobacco. This one goes on the fridge, the bathroom mirror, someplace visible and accessible, but private if they wish.

See vaping is NOT smoking. Smoking is low tech, vaping is not. We must accept, especially during the first few months of our quit that we will have bad vape days. Days where our tanks leak, Our coils die, our batteries die, we drop our favourite mod, spill our favourite juice, nothing tastes right, we step on the cats tail and he takes a chunk out of our ankle while running to the phone, have a fight with our spouse, want to pull out our hair crap days from hell. This is life and dammit we WANT a cigarette! Now!

So now, this is what I recommend. When they get their stuff, I tell them to come over to my house again. I show them how to use it, battery safety, coil changing, some tips about trouble shooting. I say if you forget, or have a problem call me any time day or night. You come to me or I will go to you if you are frustrated and we can't sort it over the phone. I love smokers, but I hate cigarettes and I believe that a retiring smokers deserves the best understanding, compassion and support that I can give them. So, when we do the shopping, I always have them commit and set up for success. When we were smokers we always had a spare lighter, we got more smokes before we ran out. If heaven forbid we ran out we ewwwww smoked our buts, if none of our lightares worked, like a true addict we made fire with the toaster, the BBQ, the toaster oven, a blow torch. Some of us drove to the store at questionable times, to questionable places, under questionable circumstances if we just needed a damn cigarette and spent money we did not have.

So I advise people to start with 2 mods. One ideally like your alien. Where they can change their power settings a little up a little down. Ideally at least 75 watts so it grow with them. A popular, solid machine well loved, that appeals to their hand, their Sense of style, their lifestyle. Then a smaller, lower powered stealth device. A second tank for their daily driver, extra coils for each tank and Three juices. I say buy each juice the highest you can get, and buy the same in zero. More nic to start is better. If it's too harsh or they get nic sick we add zero.

About flavours, tobacco I get it. Really I do. I looked all over when I started mistakenly thinking I wanted something to taste like my cigarette. Now I can't stand most tobaccos. I always have folks buy at least one tobacco juice, if they insist they need tobacco as their adv (all day vape) I say ok, np. BUT one of the juices must be something other then tobacco or tobacco blend. Mint menthol tends to be popular even in non menthol smokers. Especially if you had a non smoking spouse or job and brushed your teeth, used mouthwash or gum or mints for your breath. Many established vapers, I believe the majority like fruits. Strawberry and cream, watermelon, lemonades, berry blends tend to be favoured. If the thought of fruit boggles your brain right now perhaps a coffee, or a danish, a creme brûlée, or hot cocoa- traditional warm treats will appeal. The biggest secret I can tell you is flavour is for most of us THE most important thing. So if a juice sounds remotely appealing, is recommended, seems popular with people and or is well reviewed on a site and by a few youtube folks try it. If you get it and it's good but not great breathe it by leaving it open for an afternoon then steep it by putting it in a dark cupboard for a week or two, shake it up a bit when you remember. Try it again and chances are it's great. If still just good but you don't loooooooooove it shelf it. Juice keeps about two years and chance it high your taste will change. There is a reason many of us start with tobacco and end up with something like fruit. If it starts to approach it's expiry date and you still don't love it give it away, it may really help someone else get away from cancer sticks. Point is, find something, anything even if it's bacon and egg flavour juice that you love enough to vape for hours but is totally different from tobacco. At least one like that. You need to have something else for when you get vapour fatigue, have a bad day, whatever. Something else to scratch that funny itch.

Now about that little stealth unit. This is not just your backup it is your cigarette. I actually label them cigarette with a label machine. What I like right now are the suorin drop, it's s bit of a pain to fill and a funny shape but it can work either mtl or dl when folks don't know yet or did lung hits on cigarettes when they were stressed or nic deprived. Just got a joyetech batpack love it, it uses AA batteries, throws off great flavour from what looks like an old school carto tank which is easy to change. We are going camping with the kids, I am thinking woo hoo no need to take tons of mods and charged batteries. Love that, but of course I will take backups and lots of different juices! The other one I recommend is often an ego air or innokin t18. I use an Eleaf I care, it looks a bit like a lighter and is very discrete. Point is, this one is the new cigarette 2.0. We put in that tobacco juice at a higher nic strength. It must be a super yummy, mouthwatering juice. If they want an adv that is tobacco, I recommend they buy like a premium super gourmet juice.. like TriBeCa, bobas bounty, anything from black note. I do not refer people right away to WTAs, nic salts, snus etc etc. Just tobacco flavour, one step up in low power, high resistance device. To be used when they need it. Mtl inhale long and slow. Hold in mouth, inhale to lungsand hold,exhale through nose slowly. Goal is no vapour so we get total absorption, plus we learn how to stealth vape.
That conscious cigarette thing applies here too, at home in their smoking spot or wherever they need if out an about. But it is conscious, because if we meet their nic needs with their main device and juices properly these are those emotional cigarettes. I want to see people learn how to manage their lives like a healthy mature adult not stuff their emotions with a cigarette like a teenager. So I tell them it is totally ok if you need a burning tobacco cigarette. Stop telling yourself I Will
not smoke, I can't smoke, I won't smoke. This is self destructive and drives the powerful sub conscious brain to read I will smoke, I need a smoke, I must smoke now etc etc. Say to yourself at that trigger moment, I will DELAY a cigarette. Vape on your regular device, try changing flavours for about 15 minutes. See how you feel. If you still have an itch grap your cigarette 2.0 and go sit in your smoking spot which is If you are at home outside, clean and comfy no smoking paraphernalia. Do your writing.

Back in the 70's I read a book about quitting that included quite a few of the ideas you listed here. The guy was a doctor who worked with alcoholics. He noticed that almost all of his recovering patients were chain smokers. He came up with a plan that was based on the methods he used to help people get off alcohol.

There was a six week preparation period. I remember he said for 2 weeks move to another brand of cigs. For the last 2 weeks move to a brand you really disliked. Along the way you had to stop smoking for an hour after you got up in the morning, and for an hour after eating or even drinking coffee. The theory was you could handle that because you were allowed to smoke as much as you wanted the rest of the time, and by the time you actually quit you had already done some work on the most difficult triggers. During those one hour periods practice your techniques for distracting yourself. And keep a detailed diary throughout. After quitting you got some valium, 4 the first day, then 3 then 2 then 1. There was a bunch of other stuff like getting rid of all the ashtrays so you only had one left at the end.

It actually worked for me, I was in my early 20's and I stayed off the smokes for around 6 months. Lost it when I moved to the big city for a new job.

One good thing about vaping is that you aren't moving from smoking to nothing. You have something to replace it.
 

DaveP

PV Master & Musician
ECF Veteran
May 22, 2010
16,733
42,646
Central GA
People are probably tired of hearing my story, but here it goes.

I accidentally cut my cigarette habit from 2PAD down to about 6 a day the first week I vaped. The first few days I was so into my eGo and Joye 510 that I didn't notice that much until I realized that I was still smoking from the same pack on the 3rd day and by then, it was almost empty.

I continued that pace for almost a year. I'd smoke one when I got up, one after breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and a couple between dinner and bedtime. All the time I was vaping and refilling, learning about vaping from ECF, and enjoying my new replacement habit.

That went on for almost a year and I wanted a Provari V2. I promised myself that if I bought it I'd quit smoking the day it came in. My cigarette money would pay for it over a short time. The Provari arrived and I finished the pack of cigs I had left and didn't buy more. I enjoyed the Provari so much that it was days before I came to the realization that I hadn't missed smoking. I haven't smoked once or even wanted one since then.

It's all about replacing one habit with another. For me it was the relaxing act of smoking and the nic to a lesser extent. Vaping replaced both. There was no reason other than habit for me not to quit. Vaping allowed me to keep the nic and the hand to mouth habit. It's been 8 1/2 years since I started vaping and 7 1/2 years since I quit the last few. At no time have I missed smoking as long as the vape is there to replace it.
 
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IgnorantCig

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 31, 2015
449
1,130
new york
If you're getting enough nicotine from your vape to satisfy your Nic dependence, then there's one more small step that you might have to take, and that's having the right mindset. Vaping can get you the nicotine that your body craves, but no vape in the world comes with a feature that will alter the way you think.

I am similar to the OP in that I also smoked for about 30 years, 2 PAD, sometimes more. And I managed to quit using a tiny, weak vape pen around 3 years ago. You just have to tell yourself that you are going to do it, and then do it. Vaping will never be the exact same thing as lighting up a cig. It will be a different experience, and you will have to find out what works best for you. For some people vaping is an even better experience than smoking ever was.

I too started out using tobacco flavors, because I was a heavy smoker, but I quickly realized that I wasn't craving that disgusting flavor at all. It was the nicotine that my body needed. Now I mostly vape custard type flavors, and that works good, and plus it also tastes good. This is all highly individual of course. Some people like vaping menthol and others like vaping fruity flavors. Choice is good. I don't go around dreaming about eating filthy ashtrays for dinner but I do find some of my custard flavors to be delicious. Vaping will never get me the same rush that I got from smoking a cig, but it has helped me in cutting down my Nic intake, and now I'm at 3mg, which is pretty low.

People quitting today are luckier than people who quit years ago, because the entire vaping industry has evolved a lot since that time and there are better devices out there and also better juices, and a lot more options.

Once your brain recognizes that there are two choices (1) cig = slow poison, suffering, various diseases, death (2) vape = life, then your brain will automatically reject anything having to do with cigs, and you won't even think twice about it.

I was outside earlier today for a couple of hours, and I didn't even bother to bring my vape with me, because I am simply not a Nic fiend like I was before.

This is just my opinion.
 
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