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Berenulf

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Jan 1, 2023
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Been vaping for quite some time, started with pens, upgraded to podmods and now on boxmods and rtas.

Haven't had any build yet to call very successful, just have managed to get vapor going and some flavour.

I am uniquely interested only in flavour, when something has no improving effect on flavour it leaves me cold.

Totally dig stuff that rather lasts longer.

Best wishes!
 

Z-Lee

Vaping Master
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  • Apr 17, 2021
    3,213
    9,706
    Upper Midwest
    Been vaping for quite some time, started with pens, upgraded to podmods and now on boxmods and rtas.

    Haven't had any build yet to call very successful, just have managed to get vapor going and some flavour.

    I am uniquely interested only in flavour, when something has no improving effect on flavour it leaves me cold.

    Totally dig stuff that rather lasts longer.

    Best wishes!
    Welcome @Berenulf!

    Lots of ins and outs to building a perfect deck, and all different RTAs are going to be built just slightly different. Usually the biggest factors to a muted taste is the coil position in relation to the airflow inlets (where the inlets are aimed), using too much cotton in the wick ends which can often suffocate/block the airflow, and having too much space in the deck chamber for your coil configuration.

    On that last one, take for example a dual coil deck that you want to run a single coil in. All of that space that your second coil is supposed to take up is now just dilluting the flavor output of your single coil.

    Regardless, there are lots of people here with tons of building experience that can help you figure out your problems. Cheers.
     
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    Berenulf

    Senior Member
    Jan 1, 2023
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    Hey @Berenulf

    What ohms, watts, coil style, nic level, MTL vs DL, and PG/VG ratio juice do you prefer?
    I have several MTL/RDL atomizers like yours, and know a few folks that make their own juice including myself.

    Cheers
    hei, why thank you! have an arbiter solo, totally love it, because you dont have to take it all apart to just change airflow.

    Using ss316l and tc, vp/pg max 70/30 more like 60/40, not using higher VG gunks up coils 2 fast for me. Nic 6mg for DL mesh, and 12mg for MTL.

    Besides have zeus x dual (haven't figured out a good setup yet wich would beat the original that came with the box) zeus zub ohm(came with device, sux totally), zeus x mesh clone (ridiculous clouds superv flavour, best so far).

    Have a super weekend!
    Cheers!
     
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    Berenulf

    Senior Member
    Jan 1, 2023
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    I find that chamber size has a huge impact on flavor. Small chamber like the wasp nano gives great flavor. I’m sure the folks here can give us a Phd in flavor alone though.
    I understand totally where you going, it hasn't all to be big and fancy to work wonders, learned it so far with trial and error. If you go a tad too harsh on a small chamber, it burns out the wick in double time. Its just difficult to get to higher temps with those without over heating the whole place.
     

    Berenulf

    Senior Member
    Jan 1, 2023
    158
    447
    Hey @Berenulf

    What ohms, watts, coil style, nic level, MTL vs DL, and PG/VG ratio juice do you prefer?
    I have several MTL/RDL atomizers like yours, and know a few folks that make their own juice including myself.

    Cheers
    Use mainly ss316l 28g and 30g for mtl from 0,6ohm to 1,4 ohm, mesh 316l vandy vape 400 0,25ohm.
     
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    Berenulf

    Senior Member
    Jan 1, 2023
    158
    447
    Welcome @Berenulf!

    Lots of ins and outs to building a perfect deck, and all different RTAs are going to be built just slightly different. Usually the biggest factors to a muted taste is the coil position in relation to the airflow inlets (where the inlets are aimed), using too much cotton in the wick ends which can often suffocate/block the airflow, and having too much space in the deck chamber for your coil configuration.

    On that last one, take for example a dual coil deck that you want to run a single coil in. All of that space that your second coil is supposed to take up is now just dilluting the flavor output of your single coil.

    Regardless, there are lots of people here with tons of building experience that can help you figure out your problems. Cheers.
    For dual coil deck, I have used a single coil with wider diameter, it was successful, but it's rather ridiculous like 3,5 to 4. The biggest problem with duals, I find, is to get the coils identical, and the ohms go very low, in tc it under fires or over fires, resulting spitback or burning draw. Duals is difficult indeed....
     
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    Berenulf

    Senior Member
    Jan 1, 2023
    158
    447
    Hey @Berenulf

    What ohms, watts, coil style, nic level, MTL vs DL, and PG/VG ratio juice do you prefer?
    I have several MTL/RDL atomizers like yours, and know a few folks that make their own juice including myself.

    Cheers
    could you recommend a flavourful mtl atomizer? would like to try something new soon.

    Best wishes!
     
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    Berenulf

    Senior Member
    Jan 1, 2023
    158
    447
    Welcome @Berenulf!

    Lots of ins and outs to building a perfect deck, and all different RTAs are going to be built just slightly different. Usually the biggest factors to a muted taste is the coil position in relation to the airflow inlets (where the inlets are aimed), using too much cotton in the wick ends which can often suffocate/block the airflow, and having too much space in the deck chamber for your coil configuration.

    On that last one, take for example a dual coil deck that you want to run a single coil in. All of that space that your second coil is supposed to take up is now just dilluting the flavor output of your single coil.

    Regardless, there are lots of people here with tons of building experience that can help you figure out your problems. Cheers.
    had a question about heat capacity, how to deal with it? the lower the better? or is it good to have a little more heat going on in bigger rta's? For mtl I go as low as possible, for quick heat up and cooldown. Tried some heavy coils in zeus rta for example, it didnt heat up neither cool down, was impossible get a good draw.
     

    Z-Lee

    Vaping Master
    ECF Veteran
  • Apr 17, 2021
    3,213
    9,706
    Upper Midwest
    had a question about heat capacity, how to deal with it? the lower the better? or is it good to have a little more heat going on in bigger rta's? For mtl I go as low as possible, for quick heat up and cooldown. Tried some heavy coils in zeus rta for example, it didnt heat up neither cool down, was impossible get a good draw.
    There are a few different references to heat in your questions. I'm not an electrician or an engineer, so I'll try to explain it to you the best I can.

    I found this on reddit and I think it explains coils and heat way better than I can:

    "Simply put, resistance refers to the coils resistance to electrical flow. Remember, a coils job is to be a path for electricity, the heat is just a byproduct of the electricity passing through it when there is too much electrical flow for the coil to handle. Resistance measures how much electricity can be flowing through a coil before the coil begins to “resist” the flow of electricity and begin producing heat. Using that logic, lower resistance, meaning less resistant, means it allows for greater flow of electricity and vice versa. Here’s a deeper explanation:

    If a coil has HIGH resistance, then it is not very open to electrical flow, i.e. the coil resists the electricity, and even a little electricity flowing through the coil will cause friction and therefore build heat. Because it is very resistant, not much electricity is required to build heat, so low wattages will build heat quickly.

    If a coil has LOW resistance, that means it can take a large amount of electrical flow without building friction and creating heat, because it is not resisting the flow of electricity. This means the electricity is flowing smoothly without creating heat, because the coil is not resisting it. So the LOW resistance coil requires more electricity to build up heat, meaning you have to use higher wattages."


    MTL coils are usually made with higher gauges (smaller circumference) and heat up quicker with less power. A 32 gauge wire wrapped 5 time with an inner diameter of 3mm is going to give a higher resistance value than a 24 gauge wire of the same material wrapped 5 times with the same 3mm inner diameter. Because a 32 gauge wire is thinner, it will naturally heat and cool faster than a 24 gauge wire.

    The Zeus X is a DL atomizer meant for dual coils. There's a lot of airflow, so you want a lot of surface area vaporization, otherwise you're going to get muted flavor. I'm not sure what kind of coils you used in the Zeus X, but if you don't find a good balance of chamber size vs. surface area vaporization, airflow, and wicking, any number of issues can arise due to poor airflow circulation, or not enough vapor production. Coil positioning in relation to the airflow can easily be missed, too much cotton restricting smooth airflow and wicking is a common mistake, etc.

    Dual coil atomizers will always have a tendency to heat up your atomizer faster and hotter than a single coil, and will therefore need more time to cool off between puff sessions. You also have to keep in mind that you've added another coil, so you're going to need more power and there's going to be a longer ramp up time for your coils to reach vape temps.
     

    Berenulf

    Senior Member
    Jan 1, 2023
    158
    447
    There are a few different references to heat in your questions. I'm not an electrician or an engineer, so I'll try to explain it to you the best I can.

    I found this on reddit and I think it explains coils and heat way better than I can:

    "Simply put, resistance refers to the coils resistance to electrical flow. Remember, a coils job is to be a path for electricity, the heat is just a byproduct of the electricity passing through it when there is too much electrical flow for the coil to handle. Resistance measures how much electricity can be flowing through a coil before the coil begins to “resist” the flow of electricity and begin producing heat. Using that logic, lower resistance, meaning less resistant, means it allows for greater flow of electricity and vice versa. Here’s a deeper explanation:

    If a coil has HIGH resistance, then it is not very open to electrical flow, i.e. the coil resists the electricity, and even a little electricity flowing through the coil will cause friction and therefore build heat. Because it is very resistant, not much electricity is required to build heat, so low wattages will build heat quickly.

    If a coil has LOW resistance, that means it can take a large amount of electrical flow without building friction and creating heat, because it is not resisting the flow of electricity. This means the electricity is flowing smoothly without creating heat, because the coil is not resisting it. So the LOW resistance coil requires more electricity to build up heat, meaning you have to use higher wattages."


    MTL coils are usually made with higher gauges (smaller circumference) and heat up quicker with less power. A 32 gauge wire wrapped 5 time with an inner diameter of 3mm is going to give a higher resistance value than a 24 gauge wire of the same material wrapped 5 times with the same 3mm inner diameter. Because a 32 gauge wire is thinner, it will naturally heat and cool faster than a 24 gauge wire.

    The Zeus X is a DL atomizer meant for dual coils. There's a lot of airflow, so you want a lot of surface area vaporization, otherwise you're going to get muted flavor. I'm not sure what kind of coils you used in the Zeus X, but if you don't find a good balance of chamber size vs. surface area vaporization, airflow, and wicking, any number of issues can arise due to poor airflow circulation, or not enough vapor production. Coil positioning in relation to the airflow can easily be missed, too much cotton restricting smooth airflow and wicking is a common mistake, etc.

    Dual coil atomizers will always have a tendency to heat up your atomizer faster and hotter than a single coil, and will therefore need more time to cool off between puff sessions. You also have to keep in mind that you've added another coil, so you're going to need more power and there's going to be a longer ramp up time for your coils to reach vape temps.
    Oh, I see, so probably a normal round wire won't do, maybe a dual core clapton of sort. But my simple tc won't cut it with ss316l claptons, has to be a DNA, YiHi mod for that to work. I give a try to Nichrome or kanthal claptons. It seems to me that the simple wire also cuts down on the flavours in my mtl aswell. Airflow is good and wicking aswell, just the simple round wire has no surface area.

    Thank you for providing all this valuable information for further consideration!
     
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    Z-Lee

    Vaping Master
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  • Apr 17, 2021
    3,213
    9,706
    Upper Midwest
    Oh, I see, so probably a normal round wire won't do, maybe a dual core clapton of sort.
    If you're looking to maximize surface area vaporization, round wires will work against you. Is it impossible to build a cloud chucker with round wire? No, but it's definitely more difficult.

    I've been told by other that use Lost Vape's Quest 2.0 chip that "you can't even tell a difference" when compared to DNA's chips, but I'd be shocked if this were true. There are some chips out there that perform TC pretty well that aren't DNA or YiHi, but very few and far between and it would seem consistency is key. I myself don't vape in TC, so you'll have to reach out to those that have more experience in that realm.

    Also, kanthal won't work in TC because it has the same resistance regardless of its temperature.
     
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    Berenulf

    Senior Member
    Jan 1, 2023
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    If you're looking to maximize surface area vaporization, round wires will work against you. Is it impossible to build a cloud chucker with round wire? No, but it's definitely more difficult.

    I've been told by other that use Lost Vape's Quest 2.0 chip that "you can't even tell a difference" when compared to DNA's chips, but I'd be shocked if this were true. There are some chips out there that perform TC pretty well that aren't DNA or YiHi, but very few and far between and it would seem consistency is key. I myself don't vape in TC, so you'll have to reach out to those that have more experience in that realm.

    Also, kanthal won't work in TC because it has the same resistance regardless of its temperature.
    Hmm, maybe I give it another go, atm I run a 30ga coil 1,4 ohm, spaced in my arbiter. Clouds are awsome, but perhaps the 50/50 juice too harsh, compared to the clouds this little chamber can produce. I will try for a 28ga with 0,8 ohms, with a little thicker juice 70/30 or 60/40 ish. And see what'll come of this and move from there.

    I really like the tc, because I can set the max temp, and take long draws. The extended battery, wick, coil and juice-life is just a big fat bonus to tc. Sadly tc works well with only a set amount of materials and coils. I will try to look for ribbon ss316l, havent found one on sale yet, in the local store. If it works the way I hope it will....best of both worlds.

    And thanks again for the reply!
    Best wishes!!!
     

    smacuser

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  • Jan 22, 2012
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    could you recommend a flavourful mtl atomizer? would like to try something new soon.

    Best wishes!
    To be honest, starting last year I've gone to just mixing unflavored juice for ease of mixing and coil life. I've mostly been usung the Innokin Zenith II with the 1.2 ohm coils. The last two RTAs in my roation were the Kayfun styled Prime and the Innokin Ares II. I'll probaly go back to those if and when sourcing the Z-coils becomes difficult. I wouldn't say any of these are the best in flavor, but they get the job done and that's good enough for me.

    I've always been a single coil low wattage user. As for mixing, I have about 90 flavors that consist mostly of tobaccos, fruit, bakeries and cereals.
     
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    Berenulf

    Senior Member
    Jan 1, 2023
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    To be honest, starting last year I've gone to just mixing unflavored juice for ease of mixing and coil life. I've mostly been usung the Innokin Zenith II with the 1.2 ohm coils. The last two RTAs in my roation were the Kayfun styled Prime and the Innokin Ares II. I'll probaly go back to those if and when sourcing the Z-coils becomes difficult. I wouldn't say any of these are the best in flavor, but they get the job done and that's good enough for me.

    I've always been a single coil low wattage user. As for mixing, I have about 90 flavors that consist mostly of tobaccos, fruit, bakeries and cereals.
    Thanks for the information. I guess all that hassle gets old one day and you settle with what is easy, available and convenient.

    I'll have my fun with experimenting now, but I am also leaning day by day towards the easier choices "that get the job done".

    Thanks for the answer!
     
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