Help Needed for Ni200 Triton 0.15 ohm

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Mattymag_vapes

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so I'm new to this TC. I'm running a sigelei 150w TC with Triton's 0.15 ohm Ni200 coil and right now the setting I'm getting most flavour out of is 50J @ 420F and I'm a bit disappointed because the flavour just isn't there and I'm looking for some answers to see if I'm doing things right here. I lock the resistance when room temperature and then I try a few hits and I'm not getting enough flavour and the clouds aren't that big. Liquid is at 80/20 ratio and I also have a max VG and some 70/30 that I haven't tried yet. Any suggestions here?
 

Croak

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Yeah, 50j is probably overkill for that coil. I only ran about 35-40J on a dual coil nickel builds with my Yihi mods, for example.

And don't be afraid to raise the temp as much as 100F either. 420 is not some magic number, and it's usually too low for most folks, especially if you're using high VG juice.
 

ScrapMayhem

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so I'm new to this TC. I'm running a Sigelei 150w TC with Triton's 0.15 ohm Ni200 coil and right now the setting I'm getting most flavour out of is 50J @ 420F and I'm a bit disappointed because the flavour just isn't there and I'm looking for some answers to see if I'm doing things right here. I lock the resistance when room temperature and then I try a few hits and I'm not getting enough flavour and the clouds aren't that big. Liquid is at 80/20 ratio and I also have a max VG and some 70/30 that I haven't tried yet. Any suggestions here?

Try this. Pull out a brand new coil and soak it in a few mls of juice in a small container. Pull it out and blow out all excess juice. Screw the coil/base into the bottom of the triton and set the tank aside for 30 minutes. After waiting, screw your triton into your box and wait another 5 mins without touching anything on the box. Set your resistance by holding the up/down arrows for a few seconds. Turn joules to the max and set your temp to 350*. Take a few long hits and then let it rest for another 5 mins. Adjust temp to 400* and joules to 50. Raise temp by 10* and reduce joules by 2.5 until flavor and vapor meet a happy compromise.
 

Mattymag_vapes

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Try this. Pull out a brand new coil and soak it in a few mls of juice in a small container. Pull it out and blow out all excess juice. Screw the coil/base into the bottom of the triton and set the tank aside for 30 minutes. After waiting, screw your triton into your box and wait another 5 mins without touching anything on the box. Set your resistance by holding the up/down arrows for a few seconds. Turn joules to the max and set your temp to 350*. Take a few long hits and then let it rest for another 5 mins. Adjust temp to 400* and joules to 50. Raise temp by 10* and reduce joules by 2.5 until flavor and vapor meet a happy compromise.
I got it to 500 degrees and it's kind of good but I'm not sold man. Kind of disappointed with this temp control thing is not my style. Maybe I'm too old school. I'm used to vaping 70w big vapour production and with the TC I feel as though I need a higher nic juice. I had to go up to 6mg lately and I have tried TC coils and it's like I'm going backwards here. Maybe it's just not my thing
 

Croak

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Try 520. Try 550. Hell, try 572. The thing about TC for me isn't some fear of evil chemical reactions, or fear of not being smart enough to keep my wicks wet, it's all about the consistent vape for the entire pull, pull after pull after pull. Find a temp you like and go for it.

Like I alluded to in my earlier post, if you use high VG juice and threw 70 watts at a coil, you're likely used to vaping at temps around 520-550 anyway. That's where a wet Kanthal coil will peak at, depending on actual VG content. 100% VG vaporizes at 550ish and gets lower the more PG is in the mix, down to 380ish with 100% PG. The wick can't get any hotter than the vapor point of your liquid, as long as it's getting juice.

That said, ditch the damn Triton or any clearo Ni200 coil, they ALL suck. Get a good, real RTA and build your own TC coils, and you might be happier with the results.
 
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Try 520. Try 550. Hell, try 572. The thing about TC for me isn't some fear of evil chemical reactions, or fear of not being smart enough to keep my wicks wet, it's all about the consistent vape for the entire pull, pull after pull after pull. Find a temp you like and go for it.

Like I alluded to in my earlier post, if you use high VG juice and threw 70 watts at a coil, you're likely used to vaping at temps around 520-550 anyway. That's where a wet Kanthal coil will peak at, depending on actual VG content. 100% VG vaporizes at 550ish and gets lower the more PG is in the mix, down to 380ish with 100% PG. The wick can't get any hotter than the vapor point of your liquid, as long as it's getting juice.

That said, ditch the damn Triton or any clearo Ni200 coil, they ALL suck. Get a good, real RTA and build your own TC coils, and you might be happier with the results.
So you're saying I should increase the temp but throw out my Uwell coils and triton's because they all suck and go with something else and do some rebuildables.. Hmm so many options
 

Croak

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Pre-built nickel coils are just very hit or miss with TC, especially vertical pre-built. They are just retrofitted Kanthal designs, so far nobody is making purpose-built coil heads for temp control, they're all just stuffed in Kanthal housings.

The design means they have overly-long legs, skewing the accuracy of the resistance reading. They have poor connections, just a friction fit of a pin in a gasket holding the legs in place. Some use less-than-pure nickel.
 

GeorgeS

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    Like I alluded to in my earlier post, if you use high VG juice and threw 70 watts at a coil, you're likely used to vaping at temps around 520-550 anyway. That's where a wet Kanthal coil will peak at, depending on actual VG content. 100% VG vaporizes at 550ish and gets lower the more PG is in the mix, down to 380ish with 100% PG. The wick can't get any hotter than the vapor point of your liquid, as long as it's getting juice.

    That said, ditch the damn Triton or any clearo Ni200 coil, they ALL suck. Get a good, real RTA and build your own TC coils, and you might be happier with the results.

    While I'd agree that pre-built Ni200 coils could never compare to a DIY 70W Kanthal coil I'd even go one step further and say that that for the most part 'high power' in TC does not really exist as most TC mods on the market top out at ~50W in TC mode.

    I am however wondering where you got the temperature values that I highlighted and underlined above. This is ether testament on how horrible TC mods 'guess' the actual temperature of the coil or is just one users observation/opinion and not really based on anything scientific. (or a little of both)

    Considering that I've checked the TC mods that I use with the 'dry cotton test' and I regularly use %100VG at 380F or lower, I'd say that the "550F" value for VG is rather suspect as well as the PG value. (last night I was clouding up my living room with a single 10 wrap 2.5mm 28AWG coil built on a TSV4 single coil deck @ 340F with 30W and DIY %100VG juice)

    Juice blends with PG content will produce more vapor at lower temperatures than strictly %100VG juices, however the values you posted appear to be invalid based on my own personal experiences.
     

    Croak

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    While I'd agree that pre-built Ni200 coils could never compare to a DIY 70W Kanthal coil I'd even go one step further and say that that for the most part 'high power' in TC does not really exist as most TC mods on the market top out at ~50W in TC mode.

    I am however wondering where you got the temperature values that I highlighted and underlined above. This is ether testament on how horrible TC mods 'guess' the actual temperature of the coil or is just one users observation/opinion and not really based on anything scientific. (or a little of both)

    Considering that I've checked the TC mods that I use with the 'dry cotton test' and I regularly use %100VG at 380F or lower, I'd say that the "550F" value for VG is rather suspect as well as the PG value. (last night I was clouding up my living room with a single 10 wrap 2.5mm 28AWG coil built on a TSV4 single coil deck @ 340F with 30W and DIY %100VG juice)

    Juice blends with PG content will produce more vapor at lower temperatures than strictly %100VG juices, however the values you posted appear to be invalid based on my own personal experiences.

    The OP has a Sigelei 150TC, which can output 100 joules in temp control mode. That's certainly enough for "high power" TC.

    Not trying to sound like a dick, but those values you underlined are, well, chemistry and well proven. Sure, from your observations, you're definitely getting vapor at displayed temps far lower than the boiling point of your liquid, but keep in mind that heating is never uniform.

    Go put a pot of water on the stove, turn up the heat, and watch it for a little while. You'll get a bit o' steam out of that pot long before it's fully boiling, but if you stuck a thermometer in there, it would still read below water's 100c/212f boiling point.

    But obviously, some of that water IS boiling, thanks to non-uniform heating. Eventually, the whole mass of water exposed to the heat will catch up and it'll be at full boil and show 100c throughout the volume. But it won't ever EXCEED 100c either, until the water is all gone.

    Throw pure VG in that pot instead of water, same thing will apply, you'll start to get vapor long before the whole mass registers as ~550f, and once it hits equilibrium, it won't exceed that temp either, until all the VG has turned to vapor.

    Same thing with the surface of a coil, it can't exceed the vapor point of the liquid until there's no longer any liquid in contact with it. That's why I told the OP he was probably used to vaping around 520-550f with his 70w Kanthal builds ( exact temps depending on how the mix of his juice impacted the vapor point).

    Now, to get more specifically to temp control and coil physics, watch how a coil heats, even a spaced coil heats from the inside out (even though it seems uniform to the naked eye, it's not), so it's always hotter sooner in the middle than on the ends (unless there's a build problem, hot leg, etc, but that's a subject for another time).

    The thing is, temp control as it exists right now can't tell that the middle is hotter than the outside or legs, all it can "see" is the average resistance of the entire length of wire (and that's why the long legs on prebuilts suck, since they tend to amplify the problem).

    Anyway...while the middle may actually be 550 (or higher), the outsides and legs won't be, and as a consequence, the resistance seen will reflect a lower than actual peak temperature on the display until (if) the rest of the coil catches up, but it's still getting warm enough somewhere on that coil to vaporize some of the liquid in contact with it.

    On top of that, vagaries in wicking can create spots in the coil that are hotter(too little wick, clogged/choked section of wick, gravity as you tilt your atomizer etc).
     
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    GeorgeS

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    Now, to get more specifically to temp control and coil physics, watch how a coil heats, even a spaced coil heats from the inside out (even though it seems uniform to the naked eye, it's not), so it's always hotter sooner in the middle than on the ends (unless there's a build problem, hot leg, etc, but that's a subject for another time).

    Since it is well known that cotton will singe at 420F and if I set my mod to 440F I get a brown singe the entire width of the coil and no visual impact to the cotton at 380F I'll have to assume that the entire coil is less than 420F when wet and I'm happily vaping on it (with %100VG) when set to 380F.

    While I'd agree that the center of the coil heats up first however if I had not seen it for myself - multiple times - (as seen by the naked eye) I was never able to produce a singe mark on cotton less than the width of the coil. "Dry burning" on SS it is fairly easy to see the inside of the coil glowing before the rest of it is, however I currently don't know the possible temperature variation between "glowing" and "not glowing" or if it is enough to make up the difference between 380F and 550F (a mere 170F difference).

    Using the same temperature offset I'd think that every single 'dry cotton test' on youtube would fail at anything more than 240F as the center of the coil would be damaging the cotton at even 250F setting on the mod.

    I'll let the physics experts explain why the major differences exist between the theory and practice. While I can surely get a warmer vape as well as more vapor production if I turn the temperature up higher I was happily clouding up my living room last night with a single and simple 10wrap 28AWG 2.5mm Ni200 build in a TSV4 @ 30W/380F.

    While I'm not familiar with the Sig150, I'll also allow the physics experts explain why Ni200 can only be built to a fraction of the thermal mass (and surface area) of Kanthal and tossing more than 50W/50J at the build has diminishing returns.

    To the OP, I don't believe ANY Ni200 coil that will fit into a Trition could compete with the warmth/vapor production of what you were using before. It is also rather doubtful that a Ni200 build in your favorite RDA will perform as well. While I don't know if the Sig150 supports it or not, Ti1 might work better for you.
     
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    Croak

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    Dry burn testing is a piss-poor metric for temp control, first because nobody (in their right mind) vapes totally dry cotton, and because the liquid insulates the cotton and the phase change of the liquid drastically changes the physics of heating. The liquid raises cotton's singe temp much higher. Take a candle wick, for instance. Seriously, take one, out of the candle, and light it. It'll burn up in seconds. Leave it in the candle though, and it'll burn much slower.

    And did you not read what I posted above about non-uniform heating? YOU CAN NOT GET VAPOR FROM 100% VG BEFORE 550F. PERIOD. If you produce vapor, it's because some part of that coil has heated some portion of that 100% VG juice to 550F, it does not matter what you have your temps or wattage set at or what it's displaying, if you see vapor, you're hitting the phase change point somewhere in there. You can't change the laws of physics here mate.

    Now that said, you're also producing vapor from the water in the air you're drawing into the atomizer, because that only requires 212F. We call that...steam.
     
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