help noob Q's about expectations...

[chimplicker]

Hello everyone!


I am a new e-cig user, and a new forum member here. I wanted to ask a couple of questions about Joye 510 manual use, maintenance and/or mods. Some of the Q's are probably very nooby, but I can't find them adequately addressed here, despite some searching the forums - apologies for unintended repetitions of already-answered questions though!

I've been a smoker for 10 years (pack a day) and haven't had a real ciggy since the joye arrived. So that's great, but my patience is starting to wear out because of marked inconsistency in the smoking experience, and how fast I am burning through my liquid as a result. I think I get how to smoke the thing well (short pre-draw heat-up, light draws, not letting atty overheat etc.) so that's not really the problem - when it is fresh charged it smokes like a beauty, but the experience just tails off real fast.

The basic issue is that when I first fill a cart (drip method, using straw mod already), I get great smoke for a few draws. If the 510 smoked like that the whole time, I would have no problems whatsoever. As it is, I get a decent hit of vapour for the first, say 7/8 uses – even then being careful to allow time to cool – and then it tails off into markedly weaker smoke, slightly burned taste etc. The basic problem seems to be that the thing can't hold enough juice to give any more than what I would regard as the smoking experience of 1 cigarette per cart - after the 7/8 drags that 1 real cigarette would give me, the cart seems to be too dry for the juice to flow properly to the atty.


That's putting the carts at WAY under the capacity I was expecting – I thought 1 cart = 10-12 cigarettes worth of vapor, which would mean say 100 or so drags – but I seem to be only getting 1 cigs worth of vapor per cart.



Questions:


1) Am I expecting too much? Should 1 cart (w/ say 12-15 drops liquid) only be 8 drags or so (i.e. equivalent to 1 analog cigarette)? If that's the case, the economy of the whole thing is far less attractive than I thought... My impression was that I could replace a pack of cigs with 1 cart or so per day, but as it is I am aleady 1/3 through a 15ml bottle of fluid already (at 2 full days in) and that seems to be WAAAY faster than the numbers I'd read on the internet were telling me...

2) How is the nicotine divided? Is it e.g. 1/8mg per 10 drops, per ml ? How many drops = 1 regular cigarette (assuming that mid strength liquid= medium ciggy, say)? Given that, how many drags is one cigarette's worth of nicotine (roughly)?

2) I'm using the straw mod, but not the teabag mod (yet). Will the latter make a significant difference? I mean, will it prolong cart life, or help ensure that all the juice is used? Perhaps switching filler will help here? Is the difference major or minor with these mods – I mean how many full-strength, decent drags do you guys get out of 1 filled cart using the mods?

3) Does anyone actually smoke these things like cigarettes? Do you guys expect top puff away for 5 mins, and then let it rest, or do you just take one big puff every so often and assume that one puff = "a smoke". I expected to get: a few draws per (analog) cigarette's worth of vapour; and to get multiple cigs per cart?


If we could get some numbers going here - 1 cig = 10 drags, how many cigs per cart - I think it would help put everyone get on the same page...

The problem is that I don't know whether I'm mis-using the thing, or just expecting way too much. Getting some numbers to compare on from others would be great, or some advice about how to get a cart that smokes well for a full charge, and not just when the thing has just been set up and primed.

Thanks!

chimplicker

 

[catwoman19]

Hello everyone!


I am a new e-cig user, and a new forum member here. I wanted to ask a couple of questions about Joye 510 manual use, maintenance and/or mods. Some of the Q's are probably very nooby, but I can't find them adequately addressed here, despite some searching the forums - apologies for unintended repetitions of already-answered questions though!

I've been a smoker for 10 years (pack a day) and haven't had a real ciggy since the joye arrived. So that's great, but my patience is starting to wear out because of marked inconsistency in the smoking experience, and how fast I am burning through my liquid as a result. I think I get how to smoke the thing well (short pre-draw heat-up, light draws, not letting atty overheat etc.) so that's not really the problem - when it is fresh charged it smokes like a beauty, but the experience just tails off real fast.

The basic issue is that when I first fill a cart (drip method, using straw mod already), I get great smoke for a few draws. If the 510 smoked like that the whole time, I would have no problems whatsoever. As it is, I get a decent hit of vapour for the first, say 7/8 uses – even then being careful to allow time to cool – and then it tails off into markedly weaker smoke, slightly burned taste etc. The basic problem seems to be that the thing can't hold enough juice to give any more than what I would regard as the smoking experience of 1 cigarette per cart - after the 7/8 drags that 1 real cigarette would give me, the cart seems to be too dry for the juice to flow properly to the atty.


That's putting the carts at WAY under the capacity I was expecting – I thought 1 cart = 10-12 cigarettes worth of vapor, which would mean say 100 or so drags – but I seem to be only getting 1 cigs worth of vapor per cart.



Questions:


1) Am I expecting too much? Should 1 cart (w/ say 12-15 drops liquid) only be 8 drags or so (i.e. equivalent to 1 analog cigarette)? If that's the case, the economy of the whole thing is far less attractive than I thought... My impression was that I could replace a pack of cigs with 1 cart or so per day, but as it is I am aleady 1/3 through a 15ml bottle of fluid already (at 2 full days in) and that seems to be WAAAY faster than the numbers I'd read on the internet were telling me...
I don't know how much you vape, but I vape constantly and a 10ml bottle last over a week using a Little Chuck which vapes way more than a reg e ig

2) How is the nicotine divided? Is it e.g. 1/8mg per 10 drops, per ml ? How many drops = 1 regular cigarette (assuming that mid strength liquid= medium ciggy, say)? Given that, how many drags is one cigarette's worth of nicotine (roughly)?
Cigs are about 18mg and how the juice compares I don't know, sorry

2) I'm using the straw mod, but not the teabag mod (yet). Will the latter make a significant difference? I mean, will it prolong cart life, or help ensure that all the juice is used? Perhaps switching filler will help here? Is the difference major or minor with these mods – I mean how many full-strength, decent drags do you guys get out of 1 filled cart using the mods?

I have found that the easiest and best mod is using the white aquarium filter for filler
3) Does anyone actually smoke these things like cigarettes? Do you guys expect top puff away for 5 mins, and then let it rest, or do you just take one big puff every so often and assume that one puff = "a smoke". I expected to get: a few draws per (analog) cigarette's worth of vapour; and to get multiple cigs per cart?
Vaping is individual taste, vape until you get satisfied


If we could get some numbers going here - 1 cig = 10 drags, how many cigs per cart - I think it would help put everyone get on the same page...

The problem is that I don't know whether I'm mis-using the thing, or just expecting way too much. Getting some numbers to compare on from others would be great, or some advice about how to get a cart that smokes well for a full charge, and not just when the thing has just been set up and primed.
E cigs are waaaaaaaaay cheaper than analogs, better for you, and don't stink. I am the proud owner of the Little Chuck and throat hit, flavor of juice, ease of use and vapor are all unsurpassed, but the Joye 510 is a good e cig. You should not be going thru that much liquid. Maybe you are holding the button down longer than what you think. Take one hit to warm up atty and a second hit, then exhale. Hope this helps

Thanks!

chimplicker

Don't give up, your health and life depends on it

 

[jexmex]

1) Am I expecting too much? Should 1 cart (w/ say 12-15 drops liquid) only be 8 drags or so (i.e. equivalent to 1 analog cigarette)? If that's the case, the economy of the whole thing is far less attractive than I thought... My impression was that I could replace a pack of cigs with 1 cart or so per day, but as it is I am aleady 1/3 through a 15ml bottle of fluid already (at 2 full days in) and that seems to be WAAAY faster than the numbers I'd read on the internet were telling me...

On my carts with ptb mod, I get about 10 drags, then I have to put about 4-5 sometimes more into it. The 510 is a juice beast, because of the atty, so the carts dont go long between top offs.

2) How is the nicotine divided? Is it e.g. 1/8mg per 10 drops, per ml ? How many drops = 1 regular cigarette (assuming that mid strength liquid= medium ciggy, say)? Given that, how many drags is one cigarette's worth of nicotine (roughly)?

A cig contains about 1mg of nicotine that is actually absorbed. This is a long debate about its really unknown how much nicotine is actually absorbed by vaping, so its hard to say, but many people have said that 1ml of juice is equal to about a pack of smokes. I was a heavy two pack a day smoker, and I go through about 2-3 ml a day.

2) I'm using the straw mod, but not the teabag mod (yet). Will the latter make a significant difference? I mean, will it prolong cart life, or help ensure that all the juice is used? Perhaps switching filler will help here? Is the difference major or minor with these mods – I mean how many full-strength, decent drags do you guys get out of 1 filled cart using the mods?

I use the PTB dart mod, used to use the plain PTB mod, and I have to say it works pretty good. I am currently waiting on fluval in the mail so I can try that. I also had good success with the ZFM (zero filler mod), at least until it broke when I went to refill it (not the right tools when I made it, and I made it in a rush).

3) Does anyone actually smoke these things like cigarettes? Do you guys expect top puff away for 5 mins, and then let it rest, or do you just take one big puff every so often and assume that one puff = "a smoke". I expected to get: a few draws per (analog) cigarette's worth of vapour; and to get multiple cigs per cart?

I take big drags at one (double or triple hit it with one button push down), then I let it sit for a minute or two and hit it again. I sometimes will do that for a bit, other times it will sit for while between puffs.

 

[chimplicker]

catwoman 19 - thanks for the support.

jexmex - thanks mate! Those are just the kind of details I was after.

So the basic message is 1 cart = maybe 10 drags.

So that means, given that I was hoping to be actually smoking this thing - i.e. being able to have regular "Smoke breaks" where I pop outside, and have 7/8 drags, just as with an analog - that I need to pretty much recharge my cart after every smoke break.

That is going to mean getting through LOT of fluid..

Maybe the point is that I need to get used to smoking in a new way, but the whole point of e-cigs (for me at least) is that you get to smoke without tar or carcinogens, and by smoke I don't mean an occasional puff, but that you can enjoy a few puffs, every hour or so, just as with a regular "analog" ciggy.

Given that I want to smoke like that, should I reduce the nicotine content on my liquid? I am currently on 12mg, but it sounds like I want to take in a lot more vapour than other peaople do, and only want to get up to equivalent to 1pack or so of regular (say 8mg strength) cigarettes per day.

 

[jexmex]

You may want to try higher nic to eliminate you urge to puff on it so often. I went to 24mg, and it made a bunch of difference.

 

[VapingRulz]

1) Am I expecting too much? Should 1 cart (w/ say 12-15 drops liquid) only be 8 drags or so (i.e. equivalent to 1 analog cigarette)?

I will probably be accused of being a Vapor4Life "cult member" but I have to say that there is NO WAY you should be going through so much juice... not to mention the aggravation you're describing. It's ridiculous and unnecessary.

12-15 drops of liquid should last for HOURS. A full cartomizer for the KR808D-1 (Vapor King) lasts many people an entire day, and that maxes out at 20-30 drops. (Depends on the size of the drops.) Virtually every drag is a good one, even when you vape constantly.

Save yourself - get a KR808D-1 before you drive yourself nuts. It is SO not worth using those 510's. I don't care how many people say it's fabulous. I continue to read complaints about it like this. If you have to go through that sort of nonsense, and it's apparently not user error (?), it's not a good model.

I'm bracing for the onslaught from 510 groupies...

 

[DaBrat]

I am a long time 510 user and find that the ZFM

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/cartridge-mods/53487-zfm-zero-filler-mod.html

works the best for long time use and better flavor. You won't vape for hours with this but definitely long enough for a smoke break. I had seen this mod around and was convinced there was no way that it would work. After being frutrated just as you state here with the lack of draws (though resting the PV aloows liquid to wick up) and the difference in taste between dripping and using a filler, I figured I had nothing to lose and tried it.

I was very much pleasantly surpised.

 

[Sign-Man]

I am a manual 510 user also.

I use the blue foam mod and a syringe with a 1 1/2" needle.

I inject the liquid from the very bottom of the cart to the top.

Gives me lots of puffs before refill.

 

[skippy]

I've used the 510 for 9 months, gave up on refilling the carts, took out the filler and just drip right on the atty. I've found that 3-4 drops are about equal to a cigarette. I keep one of the little 3ml bottles with me so I can drip a drop or 2 if the vapor seems to be diminishing. Been working great for me.

 

[tarkus]

I too would recommend that you look into the KR808d1. The 510 sounds like a great ecig around the house but appears to not have a lot of capacity. The kr8 cartomizers last a long time, are easy to refill and do not leak.

 

[Mister]

The daily amount of e-liquid nicotine needed varies a fair bit from person to person. And note that for some people nicotine alone isn't enough to replace cigarettes - most such people have found that supplementing vaping with some "Swedish snus" does the trick.

Forum user DVap did an informal survey of a number of vapers' pre-vaping cigarette consumption and post-cigarette vaping consumption and came up with a formula which roughly predicts the vape nicotine requirement for people. Below I have modified that formula to allow for a known inconsistency in the labelling of "light" cigarettes vs. regular cigarettes. Please note that although this formula is a useful starting point there can be large variations for any given case. Variations occur due to highly innacurate methods used to label cigarette packages, differences in individual smoking patterns, and differences in individual requirements for nicotine vs. other aspects of smoking.

The overall average nicotine requirement seems to be roughly:

1. Multiply your cigarette package's nicotine amount by number of cigarettes smoked per day. E.g. 1.2 * 20 = 24mg.

2. If you were smoking "light" cigarettes multiply the result by 1.25, i.e. 1.25 * 24 = 30mg.

3. Multiply the result by 2, i.e. 30 * 2 = 60mg.

That final result, 60 in this case, is the guessed amount of nicotine in e-liquid you'll want per day. E-liquid strength is given in mg per ml, so to guess the strength of liquid you'll want to vape we need to divide the daily nic requirement by the amount of liquid used per day. (Which of course depends on puffing rate and size.)

So if you vape a fair bit, say 2.5 ml of liquid per day, a guess of the strength you'll want is 60 / 2.5 = 24mg per ml strength.

Regarding cartridge capacity, the filling material makes a huge difference. I use 801 atomizers with the shredded PTB mod, and I use a bit less than 1ml per cartridge between fills. I currently fill three cartridges each morning and they last me the whole day. When I was using 510 atomizers with PTB I think I filled about 8 times per day, getting an equivalent of 2.5 to 3 cigarettes per top up.

I think that the 510 atomizer may not be the best choice for your smoking pattern. I was a fast cigarette smoker, not pausing long between puffs. When I tried using 510s (my first e-cigs) that way it didn't work. Switching to PTB improved them but not enough for me. They got quite hot and didn't wick quickly enough. I ended up being a two fisted vaper, one 510 in each hand and alternating them. Not much fun. I subsequently tried an 801 atomizer (in the form of a Janty Stick, now also known as a Joye Stick) and it worked much better for this vaping style. It doesn't heat up much from fast repeated hits and it wicks faster.

 

[chimplicker]

Thanks very much for all the different persepctives. I will look into all that - including the KR808d1, I see no reason to show bias towards one system at this stage - and play around with this 501 system more, and get back in a few days.

The basic issue is that the wicking system on these things is less good than one might hope, and so it seems direct drip, constant top up, or no filler mods are the best bet for strong smoke for a few puffs.

I think it'd be good for me to establish an actual table with the mods, and the number of decent hits from one single refill measured in drops I get - it seems like the only way to make this scientific. My hope is that I can establish proof of the least annoying (refills, cart changes...), and most liquid efficient way to set up an ecig that can mimic smoking a cigarette (say 8-10 puffs), with consistently decent hits, and as many cigarettes as possible per cart.

Incidentally, I take it that the wicking in the pre-filled carts is pretty much the same as the fill them yourself carts. Am I right?


Thanks again!

 

[Mister]

Incidentally, I take it that the wicking in the pre-filled carts is pretty much the same as the fill them yourself carts. Am I right?

That is true for the 510 and 801 carts I've purchased. Same crappy fill which doesn't work in all cases.