How are clones allowed?

[withravenoushunger]

There's a lot of clones of more expensive stuff out there now. Most of them are obviously stolen ideas. My question is, how do they get away with this? Aren't any of these devices patented? Sigeli is doing A LOT of clones now which is why I don't like them. It'd be nice if they game up with their own ideas. I know the creators of these high end devices are completely against clones, but why don't they do anything about it?

 

[xtwosm0kesx]

"Good artists create, great artists steal"

But seriously im sure fighting patent (if any actually exists) infringement internationally is a complex, expensive, nightmare. You would assume most dont have the time/resources to do anything about. They don't seem to have to much trouble selling their legit mods though.

 

[Troll from behind]

Why do they make copies?
Simple, because western vendors order those from them.
You really need to make a difference between clones and copies, the clones beign the ones that a really dangerous, most of the copies beign solid grab made out of potentially dangerous materials.

 

[Blix]

Just filing a patent alone is very expensive and time consuming, and the Chinese doesn't seem to give a crap about patents anyway...

It's better to appeal to everyones morals. People buing clones left and right will ruin the real modders will to innovate in the long run, it sucks.

Tbh I'm disgusted by the clone co-ops we see here all the time.

 

[Zak Rabbit]

Patents aren't filed basically because technical advances and styles are going to change long before the patent would come into effect.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

 

[AlexB]

I come from the custom knife and flashlight crowd, and there are plenty of designs that are blatantly stolen. The problem is is that most makers don't have the time or money to file patents, let alone fight the infringement that occurs from overseas, typically from China. On top of that, they don't really care. There's not really much anyone can do about it.

Imitation is the greatest form of flattery, I guess. You know you've made it big when the Chinese start stealing your designs...

 

[Maggiemw]

Imitation is the greatest form of flattery, I guess. You know you've made it big when the Chinese start stealing your designs...

Ah, err, given that a good number of the designs were Chinese originally....who is copying/cloning whom?

 

[TheDarthJager]

Its easy enough to understand that this industry is still in its early phase so I don't think people are sweating that clone thing as much as they will later one once certain companies become the main producers. Give it a few years and you'll star seeing law suits flying left and right.

 

[TheDarthJager]

Huh, never knew that. Kinda interesting and actually answers a lot of question as to all the other clones of computers, games, cars and such.

The rewards of browsing the forums at 5:30 in the morning.

 

[Ref Minor]

Ah, err, given that a good number of the designs were Chinese originally....who is copying/cloning whom?

In fact ecigs that use liquid nicotine suspended in PG are a Chinese invention.

 

[Custo]

I see it as if they were treated more like a GNU (general public license) device rather than a patented device.

 

[Orobas]

Oh give me a break. These high-end, expensive, "original" mods still often sell out within moments of being in stock.

I don't know what's a clone of what because I have better stuff to do than window shop for a $200 piece of glorified pipe that I can't afford.

 

[xeqs]

I've learned to just live with it. There will always be clones and clones of clones as a matter of fact. I buy my share of "original" devices and attys, but I don't just skip out on clones altogether. Another thing is that there are tons of people out there who can't just afford $100+ of these items. I look at clones as being the cheaper alternative. Some clones work just as well as the real deal just at 1/16 the price. Like some have said, when it goes international, there are tons of legalities to go through that it isn't worth it other times it might not be patented. I sometimes just tell myself ill buy the clone to see what it's like, and then think "man if this is the clone, I wonder what the actual (device of your choice) performs like." In the end, it's up to the buyer to decide what he/she wants whether it be the original or the clone. Hey ECF will have pretty much any review of a clone or its original to help narrow down your options.

 

[Maggiemw]

In fact ecigs that use liquid nicotine suspended in PG are a Chinese invention.

A fact people tend to ignore or be totally ignorant of...

[Non-believers could go to Hangsen's homepage at Best Premium Electronic Cigarettes Brand Juice,Liquid Flavors|Hkhangsen.com and meet the man who actually invented our present e-liquids.

Jide Yao

CEO of Hangsen, is referred as “Godfather” of E-liquid by many pioneers in this industry. He created the world’s first PG/VG E-liquid recipe in 2005 and was also the inventor of RY4 flavor, the most popular E-liquid flavor in the world.

 

[Crash Moses]

The only high end mod I know of that has a patent is the Reo Grand. That said, if someone in China decided to make a copy I'm not sure that there is much that could be done.

Zen has said that it wouldn't bother him if his designs were copied (perhaps because it's inevitable). There are always people willing to buy the high-end stuff and enough demand for less expensive alternatives that, at this point in the game, nobody is suffering from lost sales. However, if e-cigs take off and mod makers increase their output and lower their prices that may put them in direct competition with clone suppliers. But right now it's really two different markets.

 

[Glen Snyder]

Just filing a patent alone is very expensive and time consuming, and the Chinese doesn't seem to give a crap about patents anyway...

It's better to appeal to everyones morals. People buing clones left and right will ruin the real modders will to innovate in the long run, it sucks.

Tbh I'm disgusted by the clone co-ops we see here all the time.

Have to disagree with that.

1 Most of the 'original' modders can't mass produce their product in any meaningful numbers. If they could it would SURELY reduce their ability to charge top dollar. Who wants to pay a premium price for something that you can buy on any street corner?

2 Those same mods are generally sold out pre production mostly because of the reasons in #1.

3 There will always be those with the money and inclination to buy the genuine goods.

The proof is in the pudding as they say. Go try to buy the latest Caravella, GG, Pinoy, Kayfun, etc., etc., etc. in the next 15 minutes.
Whaaaat? Out of Stock?

I believe somewhat the opposite of you, that clones / copies have a legitimate place in the market. Again, the proof is in the pudding as you have already pointed out regarding co ops for clones as well as their wide availability.

On a personal note, I have no desire to own a Toyota with Lexus emblems slapped on the hood, trunk and wheels. Also, have no desire to own a dozen Kia's in various colors and models. Not that there's anything wrong with either of those things. Live and let live

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

In this market, it is true that the Chinese were the originators of the technology and liquid recipes.

However, that culture has never respected patents and if one or more of them come up with a way to make life less complicated or more comfortable, it is quickly copied and spreads like crazy, until someone else comes up with an even better idea, and the process repeats. There is no such thing as the western concept of private property in Chinese culture, and that includes intellectual property.

The "intellectual property" notion is a western invention, completely foreign to the typical Chinese. So, repeated complaints about their lack of respect for our patents are met with blank stares.

A friend of mine is a manufacturer of vinyl and plastic goods. He has a small operation nearby and imports a lot of his material from China. When they learned what he was doing with their materials, they started making the same stuff he is. However, these items are so bulky and difficult to ship that even with their reduced labor and overhead costs, he's still cost competitive.

For now, anyway.

 

[Steam Turbine]

Just filing a patent alone is very expensive and time consuming, and the Chinese doesn't seem to give a crap about patents anyway...

It's better to appeal to everyones morals. People buing clones left and right will ruin the real modders will to innovate in the long run, it sucks.

If this is true... Why can't I buy a Caravela? or a ChiYou? or a Zenesis? or a iHybrid? or a Nemesis? or... x? or... y? or... z?

All the original stuff is sold out. I guess the clones are not that much of a danger to real modders.

 

[BlueMoods]

INHO, Clone = generic. Might or might not be comparable to the original, just like food, medicine or almost anything else. If you want to save a buck, try the generic but, know that it may not be as good as the name brand.

 

[xan13x]

Oh give me a break. These high-end, expensive, "original" mods still often sell out within moments of being in stock.

I don't know what's a clone of what because I have better stuff to do than window shop for a $200 piece of glorified pipe that I can't afford.

So the logic is "if someone can still sell something, who cares if someone steals it"? That's ridiculous.

" I have better stuff to do than Window shop for a $200 piece of glorified pipe I can't afford."

So the truth comes out. Do you apply that to everything? I can't afford a 60 dollar video game! I'll steal it, they will still sell thousands! Also, if it's a 200 dollar glorified pipe, please make me one for cheap! Heck I'll sit you in a room with all the tools you need. I expect an ithaka by the end of the week!

About the only reasons I can see for buying a clone/copy are a) it was a limited production run and the original is impossible to find b) there is like a year long or more wait, if they ever make more.