How are clones allowed?

[Arnie H]

When we are talking about a purely mechanical mod, it really is just a hunk of metal, though some may be made from different quality materials, be machined differently, etc. For me it just doesn't make financial sense to spend too much.

Now if your talking about electronic mods/or regulated devices that incorporate a host of nifty features and functions both mechanical (telescoping) and electrical (voltage and ohm meters, vv, vw), that also combines the solidity and reliability of a mech, then I might be convinced to shell out more money, regardless of who designs or manufactures it. That would be worth it to me. Or something with innovative new features. (if someone knows of something like this please let me know, heh).

However, one of the questions smokers ask me when they see me with my shiny Vamo or cheap clone, or even eGo, is how much? They are concerned about cost, they ask themselves, does it make financial sense to switch to vaping? While we know that in the long run it does, it may very well put people off from trying e-cigs, when I tell em that I spent $300 on my battery tube (which is essentially what a mech mod is) alone.

There is a certain elitism in this high end mod boosting, which leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Just because a person does not have the financial means, does not mean they should not be given an equal chance to own a decent device and be able to quit smoking, which should and must always remain the ultimate goal.

I saw a mod recently that was several thousand dollars. Ye gods! Maybe it was solid gold.

 

[aikanae1]

I think price is the reason most people start out with ego's. I'd be nervous about putting a mechanical in the hands of most newbies. However, ego is the battery that is probably the most often "cloned". Again, people spending $8 on a battery were probably not going to spend $30 on one from Joyetech. Yet there is a good chance those spending $8 to try it, if they choose to continue vaping will spend $30 on a more reliable product, or one that does more, etc. So in effect, Joyetech may still benefit from the cheaper "clone" by attracting customers that weren't attracted to them initially - and Joyetech is driven to compete with adding value to their line to stay at the higher price point.

Of course, companies don't like feeling pushed to provide more for less and that's when they start viewing every $8 clone as "theft" which is crazy since nothing was stolen. Ideas are not tangible products and it gets messy very quickly when they are treated as such. Information, design, scientficic knowledge, were at one time considered part of the public domain. The idea that a concept could provide income for generations is recent.

I'm not talking about fraud, here a product is made intentionally to decieve the buyer into thinking it's something else. Most clones admit they are clones.

I think it was the Kamry K100 that is essentially a clone of a clone of a clone. Yeah, go for it.

When we are talking about a purely mechanical mod, it really is just a hunk of metal, though some may be made from different quality materials, be machined differently, etc. For me it just doesn't make financial sense to spend too much.

Now if your talking about electronic mods/or regulated devices that incorporate a host of nifty features and functions both mechanical (telescoping) and electrical (voltage and ohm meters, vv, vw), that also combines the solidity and reliability of a mech, then I might be convinced to shell out more money, regardless of who designs or manufactures it. That would be worth it to me. Or something with innovative new features. (if someone knows of something like this please let me know, heh).

However, one of the questions smokers ask me when they see me with my shiny Vamo or cheap clone, or even eGo, is how much? They are concerned about cost, they ask themselves, does it make financial sense to switch to vaping? While we know that in the long run it does, it may very well put people off from trying e-cigs, when I tell em that I spent $300 on my battery tube (which is essentially what a mech mod is) alone.

There is a certain elitism in this high end mod boosting, which leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Just because a person does not have the financial means, does not mean they should not be given an equal chance to own a decent device and be able to quit smoking, which should and must always remain the ultimate goal.

I saw a mod recently that was several thousand dollars. Ye gods! Maybe it was solid gold.

​

 

[fourtytwo]

...
What would the ecig market look like if everytime one was designed, they also had to design everything from scratch? No 510 connections, switches, clicky buttons, screens, on an on.
...

That is an interesting picture. Can you imagine if every device had it's own Proprietary connection? How many versions of cartos, clearos and rebuildables would a manufacturer be willing to make?

 

[aikanae1]

That is an interesting picture. Can you imagine if every device had it's own Proprietary connection? How many versions of cartos, clearos and rebuildables would a manufacturer be willing to make?

I think we can look at cell phones for that answer. How many are involved in patent wars? Apple has a patent on "page turning" on a touch screen (along with a few thousand others). I can't recall who now, but there's one for "one click shopping". I read an article that one of the reasons shopping carts are so insecure is that there are only 3 designs that everyone else must license from. In the ecig industry, forget the sub $100 mod when jillions of licenses are required.

 

[Gary Mcroy]

Sorry but thats not gonna happen. Theres not coming this oppressive time where all ecigs are doomed to be 100 up. And again I dont have a problem with the clones, I buy them all the time, but the exact copys with the mod makers insignia and a serial is different. Its straight up theft. I wont buy those (even though there not really exact copies there certainly not built as well or with as good of materials) and support those kind of business practices. Im not rich by a long long long shot and if I can buy quality mechanicals then anyone can, its just a matter of prioritys. I made it one of mine to save my money so I could have something made in limited runs and be proud of and its sucks when theres thousands of knock offs running around, it just does. Those people could have done the same thing I did without supporting the thiefs if they wanted they just didnt. Just my opinion, dont have a problem with "clones" but not exact copys.....

Also Its not even close to a valid argument saying that someone made a screen so everyone else that has one is a clone, or someone made a tube that can hold a battery so all others prior are clones. Everyone with common sense knows the difference between that and real coping situation.

Also I feel like the rare mechanicals with serials n such, while just a "metal tube" are kinda like buying a piece of art, and I dont want anyone ripping off my art and not calling it a copy

 

[Zealous]

Well I totally understand & could appreciate someone's frustration if they were the modder who created something super innovative & it was copied right away & everyone bought the clone instead of the original. However I don't see that being the case too often (i don't know that I've ever heard of that in ecigs yet but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened).

With mods my experience is that the original that costs $130 is always out of stock when I go to the site & then clone is available. Of course I don't have tons of money to spend on this stuff so I might buy an original more expensive something if I really love the design & features & want the best version of that product. But if I buy one guy's original product I will not buy another guy's because I just don't have the money for that. BUT I might by another original of something if I try out a clone of it & realize that I really love that product too & would like to have the better quality version. So I think there is a place for clones in the ecig world.

 

[fourtytwo]

Well, you could also pay double the original price and buy one on some classified section somewhere.

 

[Arnie H]

Sorry but thats not gonna happen. Theres not coming this oppressive time where all ecigs are doomed to be 100 up. And again I dont have a problem with the clones, I buy them all the time, but the exact copys with the mod makers insignia and a serial is different. Its straight up theft. I wont buy those (even though there not really exact copies there certainly not built as well or with as good of materials) and support those kind of business practices. Im not rich by a long long long shot and if I can buy quality mechanicals then anyone can, its just a matter of prioritys. I made it one of mine to save my money so I could have something made in limited runs and be proud of and its sucks when theres thousands of knock offs running around, it just does. Those people could have done the same thing I did without supporting the thiefs if they wanted they just didnt. Just my opinion, dont have a problem with "clones" but not exact copys.....

Also Its not even close to a valid argument saying that someone made a screen so everyone else that has one is a clone, or someone made a tube that can hold a battery so all others prior are clones. Everyone with common sense knows the difference between that and real coping situation.

Also I feel like the rare mechanicals with serials n such, while just a "metal tube" are kinda like buying a piece of art, and I dont want anyone ripping off my art and not calling it a copy

All I want is a well made device at an affordable price. Don't care if the thing is a clone or not. I agree though, there is really no reason to copy logos and serial numbers. I'm not much of an art connoisseur, and do not view these devices as works of art but as a means to save lives and help people quit smoking.

But I have nothing against the mod makers and those who wish to buy expensive stuff. Whatever makes a person happy.

 

[FLExJuice]

Here's a free idea...make some type of snap-on connection instead of a 510 then sell adapters so people can use their 510 tanks...then clone like it's the end of the world.

 

[BostonJim]

Here's a free idea...make some type of snap-on connection instead of a 510 then sell adapters so people can use their 510 tanks...then clone like it's the end of the world.

Thats a great idea, think I'll steal it. On second thought I'm too lazy, I just wait until I can buy it on fasttech.

 

[nate85]

anybody can use them. go on the site. pick which style you like. make a design and buy 1000 pieces. done. its just like anything else.

 

[Asbestos4004]

Seems to me clones won't hurt the business. I wouldn't spend $150 on a Z atty not knowing if I'd like it or not, but I'd spend $30 to try a clone. If I hate it, I'm out 30 bucks...if I like it, I'd buy a good one thinking it must work waaaaay better. Clones may be the only reason they can charge those prices.

 

[FLExJuice]

I know what you mean. I bought a Zmax and it's ok, I've got a SVD and it's ok but it was motivatation for me to get a mini Provari with a few upgrades to fit a 18650. I got the clone Zatty and other RBA and it didn't fit my needs even though I like to tinker. I like the vape I get from a bottom feeder so I stick with Kanger. I've tried Kanger FT clones and they work just as good with maybe replacing the stock coil. It really comes down to what you're willing to spend and if it's helping you stay away from cancer sticks.

 

[Arnie H]

I don't need the logo's and all that stuff, It means absolutely nothing to me. I'd much rather the clone manufactures apply this effort to making a better product. Or standardize, in some way.

My attitude towards these devices, is very utilitarian. Let me use an analogy:

Consider the surgeon and his equipment. He does not say "these are clones, I refuse to operate" or he doesn't stand there with a scalpel in his hand admiring its beauty saying "my, what a wonderful piece of art this is!". To be sure he does prefer good quality instruments, but a surgeon will use anything available, if he has to, to save a life. They are merely tools to him, a means to an end. His goal is to alleviate suffering and as a doctor he takes an oath to "never do harm". Everything he does is with that intention.

 

[JulesXsmokr]

Just start calling all the so called "Clones" fakes - with no identity to them! Treat them with the respect they deserve. Which is none..

 

[Asbestos4004]

Hahaaa...the vamo2 got me to the provari mini. It took 2 weeks!

 

[FLExJuice]

I'm waiting for the Vamo 4 and I might get one just 'cause I think it will look nice when I wrap it in paracord. I'm just a collector of A/PV. But right now, I'm lovin the 134. It's a monster and unique. If someone cloned a smaller version of the 134, I'd get one.

 

[Vaptor]

$200 clone is only worth $60 anyway. Sell them for realistic price and China won't bother making clones.

 

[iz2sick]

Cloning is also a big issue with iPhone cases. There are iPhone cases made from cnc machined aluminum that cost in upwards of $180. People on an Apple forum throw a fit over China clones of these cases which costs $30 at most (the majority are closer to $15). Of course the fakes are of lesser quality, but look like the real thing otherwise and get the job done.

Here's my opinion on it... I don't like that these knock-offs are using the actual logo. It's unnecessary and causes people to get scammed. Those of us who buy clones for personal use do not care about the logo. As for copying the design, I don't care about that. Products are copied all the time. Everything from cereal to electronics are copied. Even if they don't copy your design exactly, it's still your design albeit with a little tweak. To be honest, if I were a designer, I would want the whole market to copy me. Sure, I'd have way more competition, but being copied ensures one thing... I'll be the innovator, not them. If they constantly tweak my designs rather than straight up copying, they might come up with something better.

But from the perspective of the copier, I wonder why they don't just design their own product. They have the means and plenty of examples to "borrow" from. Creating their own brand would give their particular factory an identity. Instead, they are reduced to being some random cloning factory. And the thing is, some factories churn out higher quality clones. They should definitely make their own design and brand it.

The last point I would like to make is that most people who buy clones either can't afford the real deal or simply would not ever spend that kind of money for the real thing. So technically, the real brand isn't losing customers to clones. However, having a market saturated with knock-offs creates a big headache for the real brand. Now they have to deal with scammed customers trying to complain/warranty their clones.