How dangerous is stacking for 6v? prove it.

[BiffRocko]

Ok BiffRocko, if you look at it that way then... a kick is a vv device then as well?

Yep. Indeed it is.

Most people prefer to call the Darwin and the Kick variable wattage devices, but I suppose if we were to get technical...

These devices are varying the wattage by adjusting the voltage based on the resistance of the atomizer/cartomizer being used.
So if we are being technical, they would certainly be variable voltage devices.

But we have to call them something else, so that we can distinguish them from devices that vary voltage only I guess.

Exactly. The comment I was replying to said "though not technically VV" when technically it is VV.

also it is variable wattage how I see it

We call them variable wattage to differentiate the end user experience. Inside the circuit, the voltage is what is being varied. If you're not clear on why this is the case, read my post on high powered vaping. Once you've read the analogy I make between electronics and a boxer, consider the fact that to change the force delivered at the heavy bag (wattage) we have to either change the medium the boxer is punching through (resistance) or the strength the boxer applies to the punch (voltage).

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...e-wanted-know-plus-bit-electronic-theory.html

 

[tj99959]

What they are called is simply controlled by what is being adjusted when you turn the dial. When I turn the screw on my VV I adjust the voltage, when I turn the screw on my VW I adjust the wattage. No need for it to be anymore technical than that.
If you really want to get technical, a VW device is a resistance controlled device.

 

[Rocketman]

You can vary volts or watts if you want. Most mods are voltage REGULATED, whereas the Kick or Darwin is wattage REGULATED.

Set a voltage up towards the high end of a voltage regulated mod and see what happens (to most) with a low resistance 1.5 ohm carto. (6 volts into 1.5 ohms is 24 watts)

Set wattage up to the high end and put a high resistance carto and see if you can get 10 to 12 watts with a 5 ohm carto.
Will a Darwin go up to 7.75 volts out?

 

[BiffRocko]

What they are called is simply controlled by what is being adjusted when you turn the dial. When I turn the screw on my VV I adjust the voltage, when I turn the screw on my VW I adjust the wattage. No need for it to be anymore technical than that.
If you really want to get technical, a VW device is a resistance controlled device.

Yes, a variable wattage circuit could vary resistance, however in the case of the Darwin it is most definitely varying voltage. As I said previously, you can watch the voltage change on the fly if you activate the Darwin and twist the dial.

You can vary volts or watts if you want. Most mods are voltage REGULATED, whereas the Kick or Darwin is wattage REGULATED.

Set a voltage up towards the high end of a voltage regulated mod and see what happens (to most) with a low resistance 1.5 ohm carto. (6 volts into 1.5 ohms is 24 watts)

Set wattage up to the high end and put a high resistance carto and see if you can get 10 to 12 watts with a 5 ohm carto.
Will a Darwin go up to 7.75 volts out?

Once again, wattage is regulated by changing resistance or voltage. This is why there is no such discrete component called a wattage regulator. A wattage regulator is going to be a discrete circuit that includes a voltage regulator to vary voltage or a potentiometer. This circuit can be designed to limit the max wattage produced, but the parameter that's being varied is still voltage.

To be sure I'm not talking out of my ..., I just confirmed all of this with my friend who's both a vaper and an electrical engineer.

 

[Rocketman]

There are complete wattage regulator circuits, single chip. Doesn't care about load resistance, will regulate watts by measuring voltage and current. Regulates output power, period. DC to DC converter controlled by the magic watt chip Give your cell phone to your friend and ask him to take it apart.


Some output a varying 'frequency' based on power measured.

 

[BiffRocko]

Regulates output power, period.

You have a datasheet or schematic for this magic chip? How is the desired power output set? There has to be some input telling it what to output. That input, whether it's a digital or an analog signal, is going to be translated inside the chip to a circuit that ultimately varies either voltage or resistance. This isn't a matter of semantics. This is a matter of physics. Ohm's and Watt's laws are called laws for a reason.

 

[Rocketman]

Look up watt monitor. I don't want it to be a matter of semantics either.

Most of the chips in the telecommunication market use an external shunt to measure current, measure voltage with a built in AtoD converter, calculate watts and vary an output frequency based on Ohm's Law and a power to frequency conversion factor. But, still ohm's law. The frequency is then used to control the voltage output of a high frequency DC to DC converter with the output filtered DC. Output level is set via a potentiometer and comparator in the DC to DC converter. Even though voltage and current monitoring is used, the output is controlled by calculated power as set by a little potentiometer. Compensates for resistive and reactive loads (RF power circuit).

Does not defy ohm's law.

 

[Bmays]

I think the TRUE difference would be shown on a meter with NO LOAD. The VV devices would increse voltage as the dial, buttons whatever are increased. Now I'm not 100% sure, but I presume the VW devices (I.e. darwin, kick, etc) would NOT show an increase in voltage without being under load.

I may be wrong, but that's what makes since to me.

EDIT: Re-read above post. I may just be wrong then?

 

[Canuck]

ok, I'm a bit of a vaping noob here but what I'm taking from this thread is that my pv with a 3.7v battery and a kick will simulate 5v vaping without stacking(which increases the chance of battery explosions=scary). The kick will also give me the same vape from a battery fresh off the charger right up until it die's? Works for me! Oh and Biff I followed your link... very insightful, thank you sir!

 

[tj99959]

Yes, a variable wattage circuit could vary resistance, however in the case of the Darwin it is most definitely varying voltage

You misunderstood what I said. With the Kick/Darwin type of device it is the resistance of the atty/carto that causes the voltage to change. (ie: a resistance controlled device) With a VV type device a different resistance will not change the voltage. (ie: a voltage controlled device)

I think the TRUE difference would be shown on a meter with NO LOAD. The VV devices would increse voltage as the dial, buttons whatever are increased. Now I'm not 100% sure, but I presume the VW devices (I.e. darwin, kick, etc) would NOT show an increase in voltage without being under load.

The Darwin/Kick will show NO voltage without a load . If you put it on a scope and slow the scope way down, you will see a "search pulse". When it see no resistance, it shuts down until the next search pulse.

 

[DarkAynjil]

Isn't the Provari VW? I mean, according to Ohm's Law, if I dial in 3.7v @ 2.0 ohms, and then dial her up to 4.2v, I've just increased my wattage.

@ Rocketman --> even if we run a given voltage through an AtD, and then a dc-dc converter and modulate frequency and pw, ultimately, you're changing amplitude, or RMS via time domain, in which case we're basically varying voltage, aren't we?

All in all, informative posts by both Rocketman and Biffrocko. I've been curious to get my hands on a Darwin, just haven't had the spare bucks lying about.

 

[sailorman]

ok, I'm a bit of a vaping noob here but what I'm taking from this thread is that my pv with a 3.7v battery and a kick will simulate 5v vaping without stacking(which increases the chance of battery explosions=scary). The kick will also give me the same vape from a battery fresh off the charger right up until it die's? Works for me! Oh and Biff I followed your link... very insightful, thank you sir!

Almost right. It will actually BE 5v vaping, depending on the wattage you set and the resistance you use. It won't be 5V vaping if the resistance is too low because it can't be set at a high enough wattage. For example, if you use a 1.5ohm carto with 5V, you'll be burning your coil with over 16 watts. You can't do that with a kick. I think it maxes out at 10 watts, so with a 1.5ohm carto, you'd be doing about 3.9V.

You're really better off not using LR cartos. All you'd be doing is draining your battery faster. You can get the same wattage with a higher resistance and use less current in the process.

OTOH, if you used a 2.5ohm carto and set your kick to 10 watts, it would adjust the voltage to 5V, so you wouldn't be simulating 5V vaping, you'd be vaping with 5V.

And it is supposed to give you the same vape from fresh off charge to depletion.

 

[BiffRocko]

Look up watt monitor. I don't want it to be a matter of semantics either.

Most of the chips in the telecommunication market use an external shunt to measure current, measure voltage with a built in AtoD converter, calculate watts and vary an output frequency based on Ohm's Law and a power to frequency conversion factor. But, still ohm's law. The frequency is then used to control the voltage output of a high frequency DC to DC converter with the output filtered DC. Output level is set via a potentiometer and comparator in the DC to DC converter. Even though voltage and current monitoring is used, the output is controlled by calculated power as set by a little potentiometer. Compensates for resistive and reactive loads (RF power circuit).

Does not defy ohm's law.

I couldn't find anything on watt monitor, but thanks for the description. The little potentiometer is the part of the circuit I was trying to describe earlier.

 

[BiffRocko]

Isn't the Provari VW? I mean, according to Ohm's Law, if I dial in 3.7v @ 2.0 ohms, and then dial her up to 4.2v, I've just increased my wattage.

This is exactly why I say how we term these devices is based on the user interface. On a VV device, you adjust a control and the visual output is reported in volts. On a VW device, you adjust a control and the visual output is displayed in watts.

Same physics. Different user experience.

The reason that VW is arguably the better user experience is because wattage determines the level of heat at the coil. This is what we need to be constant to achieve a consistent vape. Most people don't have the equipment or knowledge to measure the actual resistance of their attys/cartos and adjust voltage to their desired wattage (ie. heat level). Having wattage be the user controlled variable makes a consistent experience accessible to a larger body of users.

Here's a perfect example of why VW provides a better user experience. I've been vaping my Darwin with the same Cisco 306 3.0 ohm atty for several weeks now. I always vape at 12.7 watts. Today, I happened to look at the resistance on the screen for the first time since I started using this atty. It's actually a mislabeled 1.5 ohm atty.

My vaping experience never changed. I would have never known it was a mislabeled atty if I didn't look at what it was measuring as.

If I had a VV device set to 6.1v, which would approximately produce my desired 12.7 watts with a 3.0 ohm atty, I would have put out 24.8 watts at the coil and popped that sucker on the first button press.

 

[Rocketman]

I guess there are pros and cons to both methods (BTW, I only do single cell, non boost, and it works for me).
Variable anything gives a more consistent vape than a straight thru mod. Given the ability of adjustment a vaper can fine tune. After a period of trying it maxed out of course
The difference in VW and VV is nill to the carto. All it sees is the voltage and both methods consume watts and that's what we want anyway.

One question to owners of both types of variable devices:
I do dual coil cartos and vape them until one of the coils open up. With a straight thru mod the vape goes instantly weak. Enough to limp home if I'm out but not something to look forward to
With a VV mod, what do you notice when one coil opens. Like a 1.5 ohm DC at maybe 4.5 volts when it pops to 3.0 single coil?
With a VW mod, I imagine it tries to push the same wattage thru the single remaining coil.

Here's some circuits to look at:
http://www.seekic.com/circuit_diagr...015_made_RF_Power_Control_System_Circuit.html
http://cds.linear.com/docs/Datasheet/175812f.pdf

 

[DC2]

Hed esplode.

 

[markfm]

Rocket, with a VV the unit continues to run fine, but half the total power now being used, same as on a single cell fixed voltage. The user would adjust the voltage upward if they want to increase output power, though you will likely run into the regulator max voltage limit.

4.5v, 1.5 ohm is 13.5w. Switching to 3 ohms would require 6.36v for the same output power. Neither notcigs Pro nor provape Provari go to that high a voltage.

 

[mwa102464]

Actually not quite.
With a wattage controled device at a set wattage if you lower the resistance of the atty/carto the voltage will go down, but the amperage goes up. If you rase the resistance of the atty/carto the voltage goes up but the amperage goes down.

2ohm atty @ 8watts = 4v @ 2a (lower volts higher amps)
3ohm atty @ 8watts = 4.9v @ 1.6a (higher volts lower amps)

So the voltage and amperage don't quite rise and fall with a wattage change as a person might think.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying, no where was I speaking about changing an Atty in my statement ! that's quite obvious if you change the resistance your stats are going to change. when you leave the Atty on the Darwin it does exactly as I stated, as you up the Watts your voltage rises and so do the Amps, and when you lower the Watts the voltage and Amps also lower, on the flip side you can fine tune adjust and keep the voltage at the same place and only increase your Watts by say .1 or .2 and stay at the same voltage with the Darwin, but for the most part adjusting up or down increases or decreases voltage and Amps, again no where did I state anything about switching an Atty mid stream in my statement.

All I stated is below, and I believe it is still correct, other wise someone correct me and I will stand corrected

'' First off the Darwin utilizes a Pair (2) Lipo 900 mah battery packs so it has 2 Batteries in it,,, also it is variable wattage how I see it, you up the watts and as you do of course the voltage and Amps will increase but your adjusting the Watts which is what increases the heat to the coil. "

I still say this is accurate and what happens when you spin the wheel of your Darin, and it corrects the statement made by the person earlier in this thread, saying the Darwin had one Battery, it has 2.

 

[markfm]

I stand corrected on the Darwin. Since evolv's product description states "Its internal 1800 mAh battery", singular not plural, and 1800 is a rational size, I went with the assumption that it would be called a single battery unit. Our Products « Evolv

 

[Bmays]

The Darwin/Kick will show NO voltage without a load . If you put it on a scope and slow the scope way down, you will see a "search pulse". When it see no resistance, it shuts down until the next search pulse.

Oh good, So I was right then I suppose.