How do I stop the V2 switch from corrosion? Gold plate it?

[them0nk]

You're not a mechanical or electrical engineer are you... It's not that simple and not that cheap. Neither are heavy duty switches.

no but i was a machinist for 3 years, and worked hand and hand with an electrical engineer and mechanical engineer.

BOTH of which started their careers as Machinists. Both of which i talk to on a regular basis. Both of which i've talked to ABOUT this topic as well. The mechanical engineer saw the mechanical button and said we were going to have problems with it from the very beginning. BECAUSE of the types of metals in there.

also... please see this post: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/puresmoker/47479-new-protege-button-idea-please-steal-me.html

Those are my drawings. No i'm not an engineer by trade.

"It's not that simple and not that cheap." Redesigns AREN'T either of those. The machine shop i worked at did Research and Development Custom Machinery. One particular customer requested redesign cost 1/2 a million dollars. THIS on the other hand is no where near that scale.

I'm not asking Cash to do this for free, just make it available. I'd surely buy a new button assembly that was flawless.

And in all reality, I'm really just asking for cash to make ONE. To try it out for some time to make sure there is No problems with it. If it works, more power to him. I never ask much from cash for the "help" i try to give him. In the back of my head i'm Always thinking about how to improved these devices, and i openly give away any ideas... why? because i'd rather you guys be happy. i dont care about the money, i'm fine. i'm not out to make money on this .....

That being said, I'm tempted to go make my own button. Maybe i'll even make 2, send one to cash with part drawings so he can try it out and if he likes it, make them available for you guys.

I don't normally attack people on here, and i'd like the same respect. But thank you hueysds for having my back.

I actually found it funny "you're not an engineer"... Are you? Even if you are... i don't see you trying to help.

 

[Quick1]

Yeesh, don't get yourself in a bunch. Let's flesh out your idea a bit. Maybe it's fine.

the ENTIRE reason pure smoker went to mechanical switches

Mechanical as opposed to what kind of switches?

was the "Cheap" "off the shelf" Chinese switches that were breaking.

And these were what kind of switches? (non-mechanical?)

they were trying to help the situation...

I believe there are quality "off the shelf" switches available from places other than China. I believe there are quality "off the shelf" switches available from China or made in China. Are you saying it's not possible to get a quality switch from China? Or that it's not possible to buy a quality switch anywhere? I firmly believe that quality switches are avaialable. They do cost more. I think maybe it's too easy to say "It's a friggin switch... Why would I need to spend that much on a simple switch, we're not turning the power supply for New York City on and off".

with that being said... if PS can make a switch that is headache free for all users... Why wouldn't they do it? Right, they would.

But they didn't did they.

I have full confidence in cash to go on with making the button work perfectly *all* the time.

See above.

after i thought long and hard about it. the whole problem could be fixed. but it means changing the design of the button and i don't think cash would want to do it.

Why wouldn't he? Isn't that what you just said above? I've misunderstood something here.

i'll put this here because i've already sent the idea to cash and haven't gotten a reply.

1. shorten the button and make the contacts out of or coat them with the right kind of metal (the exact stuff used to REAL mechanical switches).

Ok.. and what would that be? What is the exact stuff used to make REAL mechanical switches? How much does that cost? What quantity and form do you have to buy it in? How easy is it to machine? What equipment do you need to do that in bulk to the tolerances required?

also making the contact surfaces a little bit larger....

Why do you feel the contact area is too small now? Since you are proposing some sort of new material what contact area is required for the currents being used through that new material you have in mind?
Using that new material with your recommended contact surface area what will the electrical duty cycle be? What is the required/target duty cycle?

What about the mechanical portion? Spring, shaft, bushing, cap. What kind of pressure are you proposing? How much side pressure should it withstand. How much without binding? What's the mechanical duty cycle? Whats the required/target mechanical duty cycle?

2. make a donut shaped urethane part that is coin thick with metal resistor in the middle that sits between the battery and the button. the resistor would be the right thickness to enable the resistance needed.

And what material would that be? To present a resistance of ... how many ohms? I'm assuming it would be "coin" thick mentioned above?
So how much HEAT is this going to produce? It is a resistor after all, just like an atomizer. How are you going to shield the battery and your thumb from that heat? and how much heat will the urethane donut take? How long before the urethane fails from the heat? Duty cycle?

and the same diameter as the positive contact of the battery and button contacts.

Ok, I'm confused here on what this physically looks like. The button contacts are in-line with the resistor and battery end? or just the resistor and there are wires running to the button contacts?

here is why it solves the problem:

the actual surfaces that interact off-on-off-on as sporadically as any vapor in the world would spam the button would be MADE for that to happen.

That would be the part above right? How much/many times was that?

the contact between the button and the battery would be a constant. i think this would cut down a huge amount of the annoying issues greatly.

With some numbers and specs you would know.

and with "lapping" and a little noalox there would be no chance what-so-ever that the contacts would ever have issues. it would work right out of the box and people would be much happier.

So the "lapping" and noalox would only need to be applied once when it's assembled and would last for the duty cycle that wasn't quantified? Or what "coating" did you have in mind exactly?

i can personally say that i never thought there would be a problem with arcing or anything like that that would happen with it. you can see in my original post about the mechanical button there is no special metals no nothing there.

So you've tested that one? Isn't it the electrical current that greatly accelerates the reaction/oxidation on the metal surfaces?

Maybe you're on to something here and just didn't share the details.

 

[Parky50]

I used a real fine sandpaper on the contact disk and used the following Silver Conductive Grease and my V2 switch is working FLAWLESSLY... ymmv.

Silver Grease

 

[them0nk]

First off, my ideas about the metals used in the switch came from WikiAnswers - Why are circuit breakers and contacts coated with silver - this should explain what type of metal to at least Coat the parts with. Having worked with a lot of different coatings in the machine world, most of the time they're priced in weight or size... A huge box of these little contact parts would probably not be *that* expensive. The coating itself should be commonly used for this exact purpose on tiny parts like these and should IMHO (i have even looked around and found applications at multiple plating and coating shops around the united states) be readily available. turn around time would be a week or two, depending on shipping methods.

The "tact" switches were a type of mechanical switch i guess you could say before. They're "duty cycle" was up in the millions if i can remember correctly. But, you'd have to take one apart yourself to see how they worked. I'm not going to go in depth on it. My own tact switch from my protege failed the day after i bought my protege, and apparently a lot of other peoples did as well. i was able to take the entire thing apart, put it back together, and then re-solder it all back together. This switch actually still works in my protege.

In the V2 (and "mechanical" switch in general), PS was making an attempt to get away from soldering all together... it's really time consuming and hard to keep quality control under well... control. Which was actually the problem with my own tact switch.

The advantage of PS making their own mechanical switch is they can tweak the design themselves to make it work right, instead of trying countless switches out there in the world as well. I personally have made my own PV with other ideas i had with parts from Radioshack and can say i wasn't really impressed with any of the 3 different switches i bought. Also, these switches HAVE to be soldered. Replacing everything with something that is solder-less takes this out of the equation. Not to mention implementing a normal resistor or regulator takes up a lot of space and needs to be soldered.

I'm at work and don't have access to inventor to make a better drawing... But i can say now that i wont put the specific type of metal that is being used for the resistor...

Here is a paint drawing of my coin resistor idea. This part goes between the battery and the button assembly. And what i meant was the diameter of the metal insert for this part would be the same as the contacts that already exist in the button assembly now (which is roughly the same diameter as the positive contact on the battery) and the thickness would need to be tested to get the right amount of resistance to match what is currently used on the button.

(picpaste is being stupid sooooo - http://www.picpaste.com/coin_resistor.jpg click that)

to be able to fit this piece in the same amount of space the button housing would need to be shortened along the length of the PV. If you look at my original drawing where the actual contacts are you can see a slightly different way that the spring is held in there. If the springs length is chosen correctly with the hole it fits into it would never lay over on the contacts.

Even those designs would need to be changed to fit the coin resistor in.

Another plus side is that if the spring on the end-cap of the PV that holds the batteries had enough play, the coin resistor could be removed and then you could use HV attys at a higher voltage. and i think i remember seeing that there is a longer 3.7v battery that will fit in the V2, which would enable 3.7v vaping without the resistor as well...

In short... my idea was only to get the resistor and the actual switch contacts away from each other in the same amount of space, without solder. I was also trying to visualize keeping the same opening that is cut in the tube itself. The least amount of parts that need to be changed the better.

There might be other things that are causing different peoples problems. The climate i'm in, is normally pretty dry. Take my same V2 to Louisiana and you might have other issues, ambient humidity will change the rate of oxidation and things like that.

I'm pretty sure the real electrical manufactures out there know what they're doing so coating with whatever they use for High duty cycle switches couldn't hurt, but you would HAVE to separate the resistor and button. otherwise the current will want to go through the coating and not the resistor metal.


Also you said something about the thickness of the coating. Most plating maxes out at a few thousands of an inch. Don't get me wrong, these coatings can be really hard core. Take Anodizing for instance... it's REALLY thin (.002" average - see: Aluminum Anodizing Process and Design Guide) but if you've ever tried to machine a part that is already anodized you'd know how FREAKING HARD it is... you'll kill normal drills, endmills, and lathe inserts FAST. At our shop we used stuff that was to be thrown out anyways to get through the coating before doing any work on that part. And to furthermore explain, MOST machining processes use tolerances like + or - .005". Unless it's a bearing tolernace, Press fit, etc. The press fit on the contacts in the buttons probably has a WIDE + tolerance because it's being pressed into a soft material.

My english/grammar & whatever else you want to call it, has Always been shotty. I'm great with math and science (other than memorizing terms haha). so i'm sorry if this all doesn't make perfect sense. I'm really just trying to help... once i get some time i'll draw out these parts with updated details (shortening the housing and such...).