How is high watts possible ?
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Maybe not exactly twice the temperature since the higher temperature one will have a higher rate of heat transfer but i get your drift.
I have an iPV Mini and an iPV Mini II. The Mini II 70W does not step down (which I hate), but I'm fairly certain the 30W Mini will step down if you put it in PWM mode.
The vast majority of vapers don't vape at terribly high wattage; heck, the vast majority may still be vaping cigalikes or Ego+clearo.
I have no use for wattage over about 11w -- like the iTaste vv3's. But, the high wattage boxes either have a high-capacity battery, or it's suggested that you use a high-amp battery in them; for me, that just means really long battery life -- a wonderful thing!!!
Andria
You are atypical. haha
I'm running a 1 ohm coil build at 70W right now.
I have no factual knowledge other than what was told to me in the womper's thread; when I was all excited about ordering the Mini for my xmas gift, I was told that it doesn't step down, which is a real issue for a tootle puffer (they tolerate me in the womper's thread for some reason
). So I came up with a way of dealing with it, the 2Ω coils. I'm not unhappy about that change, since it goes even easier on my batteries. My new 25Rs are definitely all-day batteries. 
Andria
ETA: As for "putting it in PWM mode"... there is nothing about that in the little leaflet that came with it.
I thought I would write up a simple explanation of ohms law, power, etc. for new vapers, since I don't really care for most that I've read here, but I searched online and don't like all of those that much either. Its hard to make it simple for an Electrical/Control System Engineer (we are wordy). In any case, see what you think of this one. I can fine tune it, make corrections, etc, since I am sure with the crowd in this thread there will be lots of comments, especially down on the atomic structure level, lol
----
Basic DC Electricity for Vapers:
Voltage (symbol “E” or “V”, unit of measure Volts)– Electromotive force, a measure of the electrical potential, or “push” available, to push current through a coil or coils. A battery has voltage potential available even when the circuit is open.
Analogy is pressure at the nozzle of the water hose, even with the hose shut off.
Current (symbol “I”, unit of measure Amperes or Amps ) – A measure of the amount of electrons flowing through the coil per second (1 ampere = 1 coulomb per second = 6.241×10^18 electrons per second). The electrons collide with the atomic ions of the structure of the coil, thus heating it up (ref. joule heating). The higher the current for the same resistance coil, the more heating will occur.
Analogy is water flowing through a water hose.
Resistance (symbol “R”, unit of measure Ohms) –A measure of the resistance of a material (such as a conductor) to the flow of current. The higher the resistance of a coil, the less heating will occur for a given amount of voltage applied, since the current will be lower.
Analogy (though a poor one, since its not closed loop) is the restriction of the water hose causing pressure drop as the water flows through it. The smaller the diameter of the water hose (or coil wire for atomizers) the higher the resistance to flow.
Ohms Law –R=V/I, I =V/R, V = I x R.
As you can see by the above formulas, if you increase the Voltage to a coil, the current will increase and thus coil heating will increase. Conversely, if you decrease the voltage to the coil, coil heating will decrease.
Power (symbol “P”, unit of measure Watts) – the rate at which electricity is being used at a specific moment. For example, a 15-watt LED light bulb draws 15 watts of electricity at any moment when turned on. Although power engineers often speak of power “flow”, what actually flows is current (electrons), power is merely a measure of the rate of energy transfer and is the product of current times voltage. 1 Watt = 1 joule per second. (lets save joules for another day).
Power Formulas: P = I x V, I=P/V, V=P/I, P= V^2/R, P= I^2 x R
As you can see by formula P=V^2/R, with a fixed coil resistance, increasing the voltage increases Power by the square of the voltage. For this reason, a regulated mod with either Voltage or Power (Watt) settings adjustments, while increasing either will increase the current and heating of the coil, Watt settings typically provides finer tuning increments for coil heating adjustments.
A nice analogy for basic electricity:
What's the difference between amps, watts and volts? - Quora
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I have no factual knowledge other than what was told to me in the womper's thread; when I was all excited about ordering the Mini for my xmas gift, I was told that it doesn't step down, which is a real issue for a tootle puffer (they tolerate me in the womper's thread for some reason
Andria
ETA: As for "putting it in PWM mode"... there is nothing about that in the little leaflet that came with it.
It has two voltage modes. DC-DC and PWM. DC-DC is better for higher wattage settings. But for "tootlepuffers", PWM will perform better at lower wattage settings.
To set it for PWM, Press and hold the fire button and up button at the same time.
For DC-DC mode, Press and hold the fire button and down button at the same time.
Thank you for this explanation! I knew what I was trying to say was correct I was saying it wrong! I do somewhat understand this maybe I should let people like you explain it! let the tagging begin!I thought I would write up a simple explanation of ohms law, power, etc. for new vapers, since I don't really care for most that I've read here, but I searched online and don't like all of those that much either. Its hard to make it simple for an Electrical/Control System Engineer (we are wordy). In any case, see what you think of this one. I can fine tune it, make corrections, etc, since I am sure with the crowd in this thread there will be lots of comments, especially down on the atomic structure level, lol
----
Basic DC Electricity for Vapers:
Voltage (symbol “E” or “V”, unit of measure Volts)– Electromotive force, a measure of the electrical potential, or “push” available, to push current through a coil or coils. A battery has voltage potential available even when the circuit is open.
Analogy is pressure at the nozzle of the water hose, even with the hose shut off.
Current (symbol “I”, unit of measure Amperes or Amps ) – A measure of the amount of electrons flowing through the coil per second (1 ampere = 1 coulomb per second = 6.241×10^18 electrons per second). The electrons collide with the atomic ions of the structure of the coil, thus heating it up (ref. joule heating). The higher the current for the same resistance coil, the more heating will occur.
Analogy is water flowing through a water hose.
Resistance (symbol “R”, unit of measure Ohms) –A measure of the resistance of a material (such as a conductor) to the flow of current. The higher the resistance of a coil, the less heating will occur for a given amount of voltage applied, since the current will be lower.
Analogy (though a poor one, since its not closed loop) is the restriction of the water hose causing pressure drop as the water flows through it. The smaller the diameter of the water hose (or coil wire for atomizers) the higher the resistance to flow.
Ohms Law –R=V/I, I =V/R, V = I x R.
As you can see by the above formulas, if you increase the Voltage to a coil, the current will increase and thus coil heating will increase. Conversely, if you decrease the voltage to the coil, coil heating will decrease.
Power (symbol “P”, unit of measure Watts) – the rate at which electricity is being used at a specific moment. For example, a 15-watt LED light bulb draws 15 watts of electricity at any moment when turned on. Although power engineers often speak of power “flow”, what actually flows is current (electrons), power is merely a measure of the rate of energy transfer and is the product of current times voltage. 1 Watt = 1 joule per second. (lets save joules for another day).
Power Formulas: P = I x V, I=P/V, V=P/I, P= V^2/R, P= I^2 x R
As you can see by formula P=V^2/R, with a fixed coil resistance, increasing the voltage increases Power by the square of the voltage. For this reason, a regulated mod with either Voltage or Power (Watt) control, while increasing either will increase the current and heating of the coil, Watt control typically provides finer tuning increments for coil heating adjustments.
A nice analogy for basic electricity:
What's the difference between amps, watts and volts? - Quora
As a Manufacturing engineer I understand what a value Chinese products are! But that's my side of expertise! I understand what it really costs to manufacture things here in the U.S.!
Well since the heat transfer coefficient/s would be diferent for each eliquid pg/vg ratio I thought i'd keep it simple. Also we are not radiating into free space but a heatsink. I thought discussing Steam Engines heat flux simplification error might be a bit over most heads.
I thought I would write up a simple explanation of ohms law, power, etc. for new vapers, since I don't really care for most that I've read here, but I searched online and don't like all of those that much either. Its hard to make it simple for an Electrical/Control System Engineer (we are wordy). In any case, see what you think of this one. I can fine tune it, make corrections, etc, since I am sure with the crowd in this thread there will be lots of comments, especially down on the atomic structure level, lol
----
Basic DC Electricity for Vapers:
Voltage (symbol “E” or “V”, unit of measure Volts)– Electromotive force, a measure of the electrical potential, or “push” available, to push current through a coil or coils. A battery has voltage potential available even when the circuit is open.
Analogy is pressure at the nozzle of the water hose, even with the hose shut off.
Current (symbol “I”, unit of measure Amperes or Amps ) – A measure of the amount of electrons flowing through the coil per second (1 ampere = 1 coulomb per second = 6.241×10^18 electrons per second). The electrons collide with the atomic ions of the structure of the coil, thus heating it up (ref. joule heating). The higher the current for the same resistance coil, the more heating will occur.
Analogy is water flowing through a water hose.
Resistance (symbol “R”, unit of measure Ohms) –A measure of the resistance of a material (such as a conductor) to the flow of current. The higher the resistance of a coil, the less heating will occur for a given amount of voltage applied, since the current will be lower.
Analogy (though a poor one, since its not closed loop) is the restriction of the water hose causing pressure drop as the water flows through it. The smaller the diameter of the water hose (or coil wire for atomizers) the higher the resistance to flow.
Ohms Law –R=V/I, I =V/R, V = I x R.
As you can see by the above formulas, if you increase the Voltage to a coil, the current will increase and thus coil heating will increase. Conversely, if you decrease the voltage to the coil, coil heating will decrease.
Power (symbol “P”, unit of measure Watts) – the rate at which electricity is being used at a specific moment. For example, a 15-watt LED light bulb draws 15 watts of electricity at any moment when turned on. Although power engineers often speak of power “flow”, what actually flows is current (electrons), power is merely a measure of the rate of energy transfer and is the product of current times voltage. 1 Watt = 1 joule per second. (lets save joules for another day).
Power Formulas: P = I x V, I=P/V, V=P/I, P= V^2/R, P= I^2 x R
As you can see by formula P=V^2/R, with a fixed coil resistance, increasing the voltage increases Power by the square of the voltage. For this reason, a regulated mod with either Voltage or Power (Watt) control, while increasing either will increase the current and heating of the coil, Watt control typically provides finer tuning increments for coil heating adjustments.
A nice analogy for basic electricity:
What's the difference between amps, watts and volts? - Quora
The major problem I've always had, and still have, with the formula presented in Ohm's Law, is that the letters don't stand for ENGLISH words -- if it was something like "W = A x V" it would have made a lot more sense. But noooooooooooooooo, they go letting a bunch of silly frenchmen set it up, so we have "E" for voltage (has anyone called it "electromotive force" in a hundred years???) and "I" for Amperage, which they call "Current" -- nobody can get their terms straight, and the letters don't stand for English words; it's a wonder ANYONE can figure it out!
So I'm happy with "W = output, V x A = input" -- THAT I can understand!!!
Andria
Why the heck doesn't it say this in that little leaflet?!?!?!?
Which of the 2 is more like what you get from a CF4? Because those are really my favorite mods, I just felt the need to get some external-battery mods too.
Andria
Andria, try PWM mode! My Sigeli 30w had that & it worked best for me!Why the heck doesn't it say this in that little leaflet?!?!?!?
Which of the 2 is more like what you get from a CF4? Because those are really my favorite mods, I just felt the need to get some external-battery mods too.
Andria
This may be a little oversimplified, but here is how I understand how much [total heat] any single coil will produce:
Heat Flux: Basically how hot the coil gets (As voltage is increased on a given coil, Heat Flux increases for that coil)
Coil Surface Area: How much coil area that is being heated
____________________________________________
Both Heat Flux and Coil Surface Area [in combination] will determine how much total heat a particular coil will give off.
1. If you have 2 coils that have the same amount of Coil Surface Area, the coil that is powered up to the highest Heat Flux will give off the most amount of total heat
2. If you have 2 coils that have the same amount of Heat Flux, the coil with the greatest amount of Coil Surface Area will obviously give off the most amount of total heat.
Now, lets say you have a coil with a Heat Flux of 100 mW/mm² and a Coil Surface Area of 100mm², it will give off the same amount of total heat that a coil that has a Heat Flux of 200, but only a Coil Surface Area of only 50mm²
Likewise, a coil with a Heat Flux of 200 would only need a Coil Surface Area of 50mm² to give off the same amount of total heat as a coil with a Heat Flux of 100, and a Coil Surface Area of 100mm²
The greatest amount of total heat produced by a coil would be a coil that not only has a large Coil Surface Area, but also one that has a high Heat Flux ... of course it takes a lot of power to attain a high Heat Flux on a large Coil Surface Area.
Again, both Heat Flux and Coil Surface Area work in combination to determine the total heat a coil produces.
_____________________________________________
Maybe I'm over simplifying this, but this is how I understand it.
Please correct me if I'm wrong ......
____________________________________________
DISCLAIMER: I am a retired pilot, and [not] an electrical engineer
Heat Flux: Basically how hot the coil gets (As voltage is increased on a given coil, Heat Flux increases for that coil)
Coil Surface Area: How much coil area that is being heated
____________________________________________
Both Heat Flux and Coil Surface Area [in combination] will determine how much total heat a particular coil will give off.
1. If you have 2 coils that have the same amount of Coil Surface Area, the coil that is powered up to the highest Heat Flux will give off the most amount of total heat
2. If you have 2 coils that have the same amount of Heat Flux, the coil with the greatest amount of Coil Surface Area will obviously give off the most amount of total heat.
Now, lets say you have a coil with a Heat Flux of 100 mW/mm² and a Coil Surface Area of 100mm², it will give off the same amount of total heat that a coil that has a Heat Flux of 200, but only a Coil Surface Area of only 50mm²
Likewise, a coil with a Heat Flux of 200 would only need a Coil Surface Area of 50mm² to give off the same amount of total heat as a coil with a Heat Flux of 100, and a Coil Surface Area of 100mm²
The greatest amount of total heat produced by a coil would be a coil that not only has a large Coil Surface Area, but also one that has a high Heat Flux ... of course it takes a lot of power to attain a high Heat Flux on a large Coil Surface Area.
Again, both Heat Flux and Coil Surface Area work in combination to determine the total heat a coil produces.
_____________________________________________
Maybe I'm over simplifying this, but this is how I understand it.
Please correct me if I'm wrong ......
____________________________________________
DISCLAIMER: I am a retired pilot, and [not] an electrical engineer
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I might, but it's charging right now (my other 25r has gotten scored, so I don't want to remove the un-scored one from the tube and risk scoring it too -- so I'm charging it via the USB).
Still wondering which of those modes is more like what you get from a CoolFire IV.
Andria
Andria .... I had an iPV Mini before.
Your right, while operating in DC-DC mode, the iPV Mini will [not] reduce it's battery output voltage (buck) supplied to the coil any lower that what it's charge is at the time, but as others have said ... if you put it in the PWM mode, it will in fact decrease coil voltage below battery charge voltage if that's what you want.
Most folks don't like to use the PWM mode because the voltage signal is not flat (not clean). PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) was initially used in the older style VV mods that had that familiar "rattlesnake" sound when the fire button was pressed ... but it still works in decreasing output voltage nonetheless ... just not the best way to decrease battery charge voltage.
Ron,
Your right, while operating in DC-DC mode, the iPV Mini will [not] reduce it's battery output voltage (buck) supplied to the coil any lower that what it's charge is at the time, but as others have said ... if you put it in the PWM mode, it will in fact decrease coil voltage below battery charge voltage if that's what you want.
Most folks don't like to use the PWM mode because the voltage signal is not flat (not clean). PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) was initially used in the older style VV mods that had that familiar "rattlesnake" sound when the fire button was pressed ... but it still works in decreasing output voltage nonetheless ... just not the best way to decrease battery charge voltage.
Ron,
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Ok... I may try it out and see how it does. I sometimes got the rattlesnake from my old Sigelei Zmax, but I can't say it particularly distressed me. In any case, using 2Ω coils "fixed" the "problem," so I can't see where it's really that big an issue. And the 2Ω coils conserve battery life better than the 1.7Ω coils did, which is actually a huge benefit, and they vape very nicely!
But I'm thinking that the CF4's signal is "flat," so that may well continue to be my preference; I've been using my CF4's pretty much exclusively for probably 6 months, and they really are the best mods I've ever owned -- I just wanted something that takes an external battery, for vapocalypse prep -- recently had to trash one of my iStick30'sw due to the battery no longer holding charge, and that annoys me, trashing a mod because the battery is kaput.
Andria
Haha yes the terminology is nerdyThe major problem I've always had, and still have, with the formula presented in Ohm's Law, is that the letters don't stand for ENGLISH words -- if it was something like "W = A x V" it would have made a lot more sense. But noooooooooooooooo, they go letting a bunch of silly frenchmen set it up, so we have "E" for voltage (has anyone called it "electromotive force" in a hundred years???) and "I" for Amperage, which they call "Current" -- nobody can get their terms straight, and the letters don't stand for English words; it's a wonder ANYONE can figure it out!
So I'm happy with "W = output, V x A = input" -- THAT I can understand!!!
Andria
your method to understand doesn't work for me engineeringwise, since W isn't really "output", it's more like an adjustment "input setting" the device adjusts the voltage (voltage control) to get the calculated watts you set it at. (W is merely a calculated value of Vsquared/R). What is actually "output" is current, the value I= V/R. Power can be calculated using V x A or Vsquared/R and maybe some mods measure current, but mine only measures V and R. But whatever works for you
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Well, it's the first I've actually *understood* about Ohm's Law -- I'm more into computers than electricity, so input/output is a concept I can deal with.
And because this thread is where this new light first dawned, I thought it deserved this:
Andria
And because this thread is where this new light first dawned, I thought it deserved this:
Andria
Looks like good engineering work to me. Pretty sure you engineer better than I flyThis may be a little oversimplified, but here is how I understand how much [total heat] any single coil will produce:
Heat Flux: Basically how hot the coil gets (As voltage is increased on a given coil, Heat Flux increases for that coil)
Coil Surface Area: How much coil area that is being heated
____________________________________________
Both Heat Flux and Coil Surface Area [in combination] will determine how much total heat a particular coil will give off.
1. If you have 2 coils that have the same amount of Coil Surface Area, the coil that is powered up to the highest Heat Flux will give off the most amount of total heat
2. If you have 2 coils that have the same amount of Heat Flux, the coil with the greatest amount of Coil Surface Area will obviously give off the most amount of total heat.
Now, lets say you have a coil with a Heat Flux of 100 mW/mm² and a Coil Surface Area of 100mm², it will give off the same amount of total heat that a coil that has a Heat Flux of 200, but only a Coil Surface Area of only 50mm²
Likewise, a coil with a Heat Flux of 200 would only need a Coil Surface Area of 50mm² to give off the same amount of total heat as a coil with a Heat Flux of 100, and a Coil Surface Area of 100mm²
The greatest amount of total heat produced by a coil would be a coil that not only has a large Coil Surface Area, but also one that has a high Heat Flux ... of course it takes a lot of power to attain a high Heat Flux on a large Coil Surface Area.
Again, both Heat Flux and Coil Surface Area work in combination to determine the total heat a coil produces.
_____________________________________________
Maybe I'm over simplifying this, but this is how I understand it.
Please correct me if I'm wrong ......
____________________________________________
DISCLAIMER: I am a retired pilot, and [not] an electrical engineer
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