How low can you go!!!

[Rader2146]

Woah... now that's a battery. It looks like this battery's (Green Sony 30A) big bad cousin.

Or there is the US18650VTC3's big brother. SONY Lithium 26650 Li-ion 3.7V 50A 2600mAh US26650VT Battery [SONY SE US26650VT T C11] - $9.80 : Lithium Rechargeable Batteries, Battery BMS, Pack Assembling

However, it doesn't test out too well above 20A. Which makes me wonder about the VTC3 and VTC4.

Test of Sony SE US26650VT 2600mAh (Green)

well i can only say that one person in this thread was pushing a battery to its limits.......by pushing a battery that has a rating of 30A to 10A isn't that much.....i also work with electricity and circuits on a daily basis and any battery can be pushed to a certain limit without fail.....now yes there are some batteries that are just those ugly ducklings and will fail without any reason whatsoever....thats the chance you take but pushing a battery to 30% of whats its rated to be pushed to isn't all that dangerous really in my eyes....... not all of us sub ohmers are stupid and ......ed when it comes to knowing about the hazards......

I have tested the AW IMR batteries and they were going 21A at full discharge so it was 3A off from its rating.......

Regarding that last sentence...what do you mean they were 3A off of the rating? How did you test them?

 

[ambientech]

well i can only say that one person in this thread was pushing a battery to its limits.......by pushing a battery that has a rating of 30A to 10A isn't that much.....i also work with electricity and circuits on a daily basis and any battery can be pushed to a certain limit without fail.....now yes there are some batteries that are just those ugly ducklings and will fail without any reason whatsoever....thats the chance you take but pushing a battery to 30% of whats its rated to be pushed to isn't all that dangerous really in my eyes....... not all of us sub ohmers are stupid and ......ed when it comes to knowing about the hazards......

I have tested the AW IMR batteries and they were going 21A at full discharge so it was 3A off from its rating.......

Most any lithium battery will flow huge amounts of current. Just because you put a load on a battery and it hit 21 amps doesn't mean it is safe to do. I can show you a battery rated at 20 amps run at 100 amps.....

Sony doesn't make batteries, it is a re-branded battery. My bet is it will not be able to handle over 20 amps at best, and that will be pushing it very hard. Who knows, it may surprise me. Like I said I will order one, test it, and post the logging graphs so all can see the real numbers.

Never said everyone was stupid, just misinformed, determining risks on flawed info.

 

[ambientech]

Or there is the US18650VTC3's big brother. SONY Lithium 26650 Li-ion 3.7V 50A 2600mAh US26650VT Battery [SONY SE US26650VT T C11] - $9.80 : Lithium Rechargeable Batteries, Battery BMS, Pack Assembling

However, it doesn't test out too well above 20A. Which makes me wonder about the VTC3 and VTC4.

Test of Sony SE US26650VT 2600mAh (Green)



Regarding that last sentence...what do you mean they were 3A off of the rating? How did you test them?

Perfect example of the marketing vs real world numbers....

 

[Krazirob]

I used a multimeter and discharged all the power out of the battery until it was under 3V..........it hit upwards of 26 but it stayed steady around 21. not a true accurate way but useful

Best way to confirm the ratings also is to use ohms law.......MAH x resistance of battery should give you a good approximation of the rating and if you are at 50% of that then you are pretty darn safe......

 

[Rader2146]

I used a multimeter and discharged all the power out of the battery until it was under 3V..........it hit upwards of 26 but it stayed steady around 21. not a true accurate way but useful

Best way to confirm the ratings also is to use ohms law.......MAH x resistance of battery should give you a good approximation of the rating and if you are at 50% of that then you are pretty darn safe......

Neither one of these methods is remotely valid when you are talking about discharge rating. To be honest, there isn't a single benchmark that they would be useful for.

 

[Krazirob]

its simple math......its how batteries work.....discharge is regulated by the resistance in the battery.......i even just researched this to make sure i wasn't ......ed.......i make alot of circuits that are made into improvised explosive devices since I'm a bomb tech in Army EOD(bombsquad) and when trying to limit the discharge of a power source you incorporate resistors and mosfets......unless I'm missing something here

never said the method i used to test the battery was super accurate but it gives the user an idea of where they need to stay away from

in case I didn't explain it correctly here is an excerpt from a textbook on basic electronics

Here's the easy way to find your battery's discharge rate just multiply the number from the C rating by the pack's capacity. Keep in mind that 1000 milliamps equals one amp. Here's an example, using an 2000mAh 10C battery

2000mAh 10C battery
2000 milliamps = 2 amps
2 Amps x 10 = 20 amps continuous discharge

This means that you can safely draw up to 20 amps continuously from that 11.1V 2000mAh 10C without doing damage to your battery. Most packs have all the discharge information printed right on the label.

 

[Rader2146]

its simple math......its how batteries work.....discharge is regulated by the resistance in the battery

Not exactly. Current isnt regulated in the battery. Current is dictated by ohms law [I=E/R] with R being the TOTAL circuit resistance...including the internal resistance of the battery. If you were drawing a peak of 26 amps at the start then your TOTAL circuit resistance would have been ~0.16Ω and as the battery voltage faded so did the current. In theory, an AW 1600 should be able to produce ~105 amps during a direct short (4.2v/0.04Ω=105A) This wont happen though as internal resistance will climb as the current climbs wel above the max discharge rating and you would probably end up with something in the neighborhood of 50-60amps. All this to say that the max discharge rating is not a discharge limit, meaning that the battery cannot limit itself to the rating. The battery is very capable of blowing right past the discharge rating in the case of a short or very low total circuit resistance.

.......i even just researched this to make sure i wasn't ......ed.......i make alot of circuits that are made into improvised explosive devices since I'm a bomb tech in Army EOD(bombsquad) and when trying to limit the discharge of a power source you incorporate resistors and mosfets......unless I'm missing something here

never said the method i used to test the battery was super accurate but it gives the user an idea of where they need to stay away from

in case I didn't explain it correctly here is an excerpt from a textbook on basic electronics

Here's the easy way to find your battery's discharge rate just multiply the number from the C rating by the pack's capacity. Keep in mind that 1000 milliamps equals one amp. Here's an example, using an 11.1V 2000mAh 10C

11.1 volt 2000mAh -10C
2000 milliamps = 2 amps
2 Amps x 10 = 20 amps continuous discharge

This means that you can safely draw up to 20 amps continuously from that 11.1V 2000mAh 10C without doing damage to your battery. Most packs have all the discharge information printed right on the label.

The "C Rating" is an attempt for a manufacturer to normalize the rating system. Some manufacturers rate their batteries by telling you directly "Max Discharge = 30A" and some will say "Max Discharge = 10C" forcing you to do some math. C Rating is not the resistance of the battery.

 

[Krazirob]

yeah i was tracking the C rating being the capacitor size.......but the total resistance changing the current flow......when i tested the battery on a multimeter i let it flow constantly until it was empty.....i started very high and fluctuated but sat around 21A for a long period of time giving me peace of mind that as long as i kept it under that i should be good.

 

[ambientech]

its simple math......its how batteries work.....discharge is regulated by the resistance in the battery.......i even just researched this to make sure i wasn't ......ed.......i make alot of circuits that are made into improvised explosive devices since I'm a bomb tech in Army EOD(bombsquad) and when trying to limit the discharge of a power source you incorporate resistors and mosfets......unless I'm missing something here

never said the method i used to test the battery was super accurate but it gives the user an idea of where they need to stay away from

in case I didn't explain it correctly here is an excerpt from a textbook on basic electronics

Here's the easy way to find your battery's discharge rate just multiply the number from the C rating by the pack's capacity. Keep in mind that 1000 milliamps equals one amp. Here's an example, using an 2000mAh 10C battery

2000mAh 10C battery
2000 milliamps = 2 amps
2 Amps x 10 = 20 amps continuous discharge

This means that you can safely draw up to 20 amps continuously from that 11.1V 2000mAh 10C without doing damage to your battery. Most packs have all the discharge information printed right on the label.

When each manufacturer tests their own product you get fudged numbers. Notice the graph in radar2126 link. That battery is rated at 50 amps (20C). As can be seen it isn't even close. At best it is capable of 20 amps and it's life will be short running it at 20 amps.

 

[ambientech]

Not exactly. Current isnt regulated in the battery. Current is dictated by ohms law [I=E/R] with R being the TOTAL circuit resistance...including the internal resistance of the battery. If you were drawing a peak of 26 amps at the start then your TOTAL circuit resistance would have been ~0.16Ω and as the battery voltage faded so did the current. In theory, an AW 1600 should be able to produce ~105 amps during a direct short (4.2v/0.04Ω=105A) This wont happen though as internal resistance will climb as the current climbs wel above the max discharge rating and you would probably end up with something in the neighborhood of 50-60amps. All this to say that the max discharge rating is not a discharge limit, meaning that the battery cannot limit itself to the rating. The battery is very capable of blowing right past the discharge rating in the case of a short or very low total circuit resistance.



The "C Rating" is an attempt for a manufacturer to normalize the rating system. Some manufacturers rate their batteries by telling you directly "Max Discharge = 30A" and some will say "Max Discharge = 10C" forcing you to do some math. C Rating is not the resistance of the battery.

This^^^^

Using the internal resistance as a guide in how much current a battery can safely deliver is foolish, and will get you hurt in a hurry. All Lithium batteries are capable of much more current flow then they can safely deliver. This is why you must limit the current otherwise they will flow so much they will go into thermal runaway.

 

[Randy C]

Apparently the Vape Police can't read. This thread is in the Rebuildable Atomizer Systems section. For ADVANCED users ! This is not the New Members forum.

It's getting old guys.

Just for the record...someone might THINK they are an advanced user, but sometimes... folks just don't know what they don't know.

Vapers going down to .12 was the very reason for my post.... clearly you know what you're doing; I just wonder where you went since the conversation got technical????

 

[Jimi D.]

Just for the record...someone might THINK they are an advanced user, but sometimes... folks just don't know what they don't know.

Vapers going down to .12 was the very reason for my post.... clearly you know what you're doing; I just wonder where you went since the conversation got technical????

I was off to save the world !

 

[Bullypop]

I just went dual coil .21 with 24 gauge 5/6 wraps ons trident. This thing is violent and hot. That tenth of an ohm makes a difference with how enjoyable the vape is. Right now I have a .53 ohm with 24 gauge on a genny in auto drip mode that's pretty awesome.

 

[Randy C]

Just using stock dual air holes.

I ain't gonna lie... that it some SICK vapor! Btw... nice job on your profile pic- very Christmassy

 

[Jimi D.]

I ain't gonna lie... that it some SICK vapor! Btw... nice job on your profile pic- very Christmassy

Thanks man. Have a nice holiday season. I just wish it would cool down some. Too hot down here.

 

[John_]

Thanks man. Have a nice holiday season. I just wish it would cool down some. Too hot down here.

It's finally getting cold here. I prefer the cold to the heat, and when it's cold outside your clouds look cooler so that's a plus.

 

[Randy C]

Thanks man. Have a nice holiday season. I just wish it would cool down some. Too hot down here.

I here ya'. SW Flat here..... we had one beautiful day where it was cool- Thanksgiving, and it was awesome... Outside grilling, deep frying, bonfire, in a flannel shirt; it was great! Then..... right back to 85°.

 

[protocol]

.

Just using stock dual air holes.

I think they call that "anthropogenic climate change"
.

 

[suspectK]

I went down to 0.2ohms for several days again. I don't know if I would call it more vapor, but it was more dense, and stayed low like a fog for longer than usual.. not to mention it was pretty hot.

I like to stay around 0.5-0.8ohms.

 

[DesmondTheMoonbear]

I'm at .19 right now with quad super nano coils that I wrapped around a piece of 26g kanthal. I'm loving it. 1 second drags, very satisfying.

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